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How Siberia was once a separate country. It was older than Muscovy, but in the end, it was absorbed and destroyed…

Litwin said:
The Khanate of Sibir was an ancient Turkic state on the territory of present-day Siberia. It was older than Muscovy, but in the end, it was absorbed and destroyed…
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You seem to be forgetting a few things.

First, it was not really a "state", it was a very small remnant of Islamic Mongols that tried to hold on after their empire collapsed. And it was largely ignored by Russia for around 50 years.

But then they made a mistake. They tried to force the Tartars in the region to convert to Islam. And it was conversion by the sword, convert to Islam or die. And after hitting several communities of Tartars, they decided to attack Russian trade outposts in the area. That is what brought down the Russians upon them and saw their little kingdom destroyed.

Siberia is so large and empty, that the Russians have largely left it alone. However, they were already starting to look at the Khanate because of the reports from Tartars that got away and informed them of what was going on. But their attacking Russian trading posts was too much, and they got crushed.

So what, you support those that attack others based on their religion, and being forced to convert or die? Do you also support those doing the same thing in Philippines as part of the Sultanate of Sulu?
 
Oozlefinch said:
First, it was not really a "state", it was a very small remnant of Islamic Mongols that tried to hold on after their empire collapsed.
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1. Moscow ulus is a mongol state (ulus ) as well
2. it was not a real state (empire ) until French speaking Germans created imperial institutes for them
3. Yeltsin - putin´s ulus is not a modern state as well. they can´t have modern (including all Muscovites ) functional laws , institute of succession , etc.





Bashkortostan today, as I predicted I 1917 N2

Why would Bashkir men fight Moscow wars, while their own home is raided by imperial oppression forces (also known as riot police)? Free #Bashkortostan #Tatarstan #Dagestan BACKGROUND :
debatepolitics.com debatepolitics.com

Theft of millennia: how Muscovy rebranded itself as 'Russia' I VIDEO

FINALLY !!! PS Ugandas dictator Idi Amin was also known as "the last king of Scotland", there was even a movie with that name in the 2000s.... Addressing additional arguments: 👉 But Muscovite Rulers were of the same dynasty as Russian Rulers - House of Rurik? ❓ 1. This logic...
debatepolitics.com debatepolitics.com

Addressing additional arguments:


👉 But Muscovite Rulers were of the same dynasty as Russian Rulers - House of Rurik? ❓

1. This logic suggests that if the Danish King Rules in Norway he can call Norway - Denmark now? Which happened in history, on many occasions. Those Russian rulers also ruled in Georgia and Bulgaria... so according to this logic let's call Georgia and Bulgaria Russia too? Logic is flawed
2. House of Rurik lost power BEFORE they rebranded themselves. It was the house of Romanov who stole the identity.
3. House of Rurik continued to rule in the Kingdom of Rus' after the collapse of Kyiv in 1240, with the capital in Lviv/Glaich
4. Those Ruriks ruling in Vladimir-Suzdal Province (Moscow didn't exist yet) were far descendants that had no chance of power inheritance in Kyiv.



👉 But why do we see the label "Russia" on some maps prior 1721? ❓

'Russia' label appears over territories of Muscovia before 1721. We can see it on the map of 1720 by Homann, map of 1721 by Moll, and 1595 by Mercator.

1. The name on the map is archaic - it loosely shows what used to be territories controlled by Rus'. It is not used in a geopolitical sense to define the name of the state. You can also see "Russia" and "Asia" spelled with one font size on 1595 Mercator map.
2. Term "of Russian" prior 20th century meant religious affiliation to Greek Orthodoxy. And was applicable to people that adopted Christiany from Kyiv. People living in Moscovia were of Russian faith but no records existing proving they identified themselves as Ruthenean identity/nationality.
3. Due to a number of reasons including point #2 and the challenges mapmakers faced back then, especially foreign mapmakers with language barriers - there are lots of human errors. You have to look at the trends, no single map will be accurate.
4. On Mercator map we can see the label "Russia" next to Lviv (Leopolis) actually in the same font size as Moscovia. So something's not right, are there two Russias now? Well no, one is defining a nation/region, while another defines archaic territories that used to be controlled by Rus' in the past - as per point #1
5. On the map of 1721 - a good example to prove point #1 - we can see labels 'Russia' and 'Tartaria' are both used archaically, meaning not as the name of the state.



👉 But Rus' came from Novgorod, not Kyiv? ❓

This is a deliberately created Moscow lie so to give Kyiv less credibility.

1. Archaeological evidence indicates that Novgorod begins only in the first half of the 10th century. Meaning it cannot precede Kyiv in anything. Novgorod being capital of Rus is a deliberately created Moscow lie.
Mapping the Forests of Medieval Novgorod | Bournemouth University
www.bournemouth.ac.uk www.bournemouth.ac.uk

2. Novgorod and Moscovia are completely different. Moscovia genocided Novgorodian ethnos, and assimilated them.
en.wikipedia.org
Novgorod Republic - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

3. Kyiv was the only capital of Rus'. Novogord paid tribute to it. Based on Chronicles and works of many scientists: Priselkov, Tolochko, Nasonov, Rybakov, Grushevskiy. Novgorod wasn't even a core part of Rus'.Here's just one quote from Laurentian text "Tale of Bygone Years" - year 1175 to prove it: "This has already happened, our ruler was killed, but he has no children [in Vladimir], his son is in Novgorod, and his brothers are in Rus'."
 
Rumpel said:
realistic?
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Oozlefinch said:
You seem to be forgetting a few things.

First, it was not really a "state", it was a very small remnant of Islamic Mongols that tried to hold on after their empire collapsed. And it was largely ignored by Russia for around 50 years.

But then they made a mistake. They tried to force the Tartars in the region to convert to Islam. And it was conversion by the sword, convert to Islam or die. And after hitting several communities of Tartars, they decided to attack Russian trade outposts in the area. That is what brought down the Russians upon them and saw their little kingdom destroyed.

Siberia is so large and empty, that the Russians have largely left it alone. However, they were already starting to look at the Khanate because of the reports from Tartars that got away and informed them of what was going on. But their attacking Russian trading posts was too much, and they got crushed.

So what, you support those that attack others based on their religion, and being forced to convert or die? Do you also support those doing the same thing in Philippines as part of the Sultanate of Sulu?
Click to expand...
the Yakuts are not Muscovite 🇷🇺🐖 🇷🇺 slaves, they are real Mongol warriors! and They want to Be Free from colonial Moscow 🇷🇺🐖🇷🇺 occupation
 
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