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How often has Trump changed his story on Ukraine? Let us count the ways

Rogue Valley

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How often has Trump changed his story on Ukraine? Let us count the ways

1569437692491.jpg

Trump and Ukrainian president Volodmyr Zelenskyy.

11/10/19
WASHINGTON — The tangled saga of President Trump’s effort to muscle Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden and others in return for U.S. aid or a state visit to Washington hasn’t been easy to follow. Fragments initially dribbled out of closed-door hearings as White House and State Department officials described how the president and his henchmen — is there any other word for Rudy Giuliani? — sought to twist U.S. foreign policy, apparently to boost Trump’s reelection bid. Making sense of the complicated story will be the challenge when the House Intelligence Committee holds the first public hearings, starting Wednesday. But Republican arguments in Trump’s defense are hard to follow too — because the president and his allies in Congress keep changing their stories. Trump’s first response, after a whistleblower in the National Security Council raised the alarm that the president had held up military aid to Ukraine while demanding Kyiv investigate his political rivals, was simple: It never happened. “I didn’t delay anything,” Trump told reporters. Even he could see that whopper wouldn’t hold. Too many bureaucrats knew the White House had stopped the aid that a bipartisan majority in Congress had approved for a struggling democracy facing Russian aggression. That wasn’t convincing either. So the president tried again: He blocked the aid but never demanded anything in return for releasing it. “No quid pro quo!” Trump insisted. A parade of current and former officials told Congress that wasn’t true, either.

That meant the president’s defenders needed a new explanation: Yes, there was a quid pro quo, but it was part of a legitimate effort to get Ukraine to act against corruption in general.“We do that all the time,” Trump’s acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, told reporters. Except they don’t. The Trump administration hasn’t blocked aid to any other country over corruption. And Trump never mentioned corruption when he asked Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, for a “favor” in their now-famous July 25 phone call. Out came a new defense: The Ukrainians didn’t know why their aid was blocked, so it couldn’t have been a quid quo pro. But Taylor and other diplomats testified, under oath, that Sondland clearly spelled out Trump’s demands for investigations to the Ukrainians. Next argument: the fall-guy defense. Nobody’s proven that Trump was directly involved; all these meetings were conducted by Giuliani, Mulvaney and Sondland. Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) offered another defense — No. 6, by my count — saying Trump and his aides are too inept to pull off a scheme like this. “What can I can tell you about the Trump policy toward Ukraine? It was incoherent,” Graham said. “They seem to be incapable of forming a quid pro quo.” Incompetence, alas, is not a valid defense in criminal trials. It’s unlikely to stave off impeachment either. Down to the last-ditch defenses. None of this matters, Trump advisor Kellyanne Conway argued, because Ukraine got its military aid in the end. Even if Trump was seeking a quid pro quo, he didn’t succeed — so what’s the problem? “It’s not impeachable,” she declared. If the Democratic-led House impeaches Trump and he goes on trial in the Republican-led Senate, much of the debate will focus on that question: Did the president’s misconduct reach a level that requires his removal from office? As any parent of any 6-year-old can tell you, a much simpler test is available: If Trump did nothing wrong, why can’t he get his story straight?

I imagine Rep. Jim Jordan (R/Ohio) and other Trump attack dogs in the House will dream up even more exotic reasons why presidential extortion is not a high crime and misdemeanor.

The House public hearings (this was a previous GOP excuse) will begin on Wednesday with the US Chargé d'affaires for Ukraine William Taylor providing testimony.
 
On Wednesday, US Charge d'Affaires for Ukraine William Taylor will testify in public in the House impeachment inquiry.

As with Army Lt. Colonel Alexander Vindman, expect Congressional Republicans to attempt to smear Mr. Taylor.

Doing so won't be easy. William Taylor graduated from West Point, attaining the rank of cadet battalion commander and graduating in the top 1% of his class in 1969. After Taylor graduated from West Point, he served in the infantry for six years, including tours of duty in the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, and 18 months with the 101st Airborne Division during the Vietnam War. He earned a Bronze Star and the Air Medal with 'V' for VALOR. In 1977 he completed graduate studies at Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government, receiving a Master of Public Policy degree. From 1992 until 2002 Taylor served with the rank of Ambassador coordinating assistance to Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union. In 2003 Secretary of State Colin L. Powell appointed Taylor as the Afghanistan Coordinator at the U.S. Department of State, overseeing all aspects of U.S. policy toward Afghanistan. Taylor was nominated by President George W. Bush to be United States ambassador to Ukraine and was sworn in on June 5, 2006. In 2015, Taylor was appointed Executive Vice President of the United States Institute of Peace. At the request of US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Taylor came out of retirement in 2019 to lead the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine due to the Trump firing of US Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch.

William B. Taylor Jr.
 
Mango is a liar.
 
It's pretty much the same cycle of events with every Trump scandal.

1. Trump is involved with something sketchy or says something abhorrent.
2. Republicans defend him by saying it didn't happen.
3. Trump admits it happened.
4. Republicans defend him by saying he was misunderstood.
5. Trump states that he not only did the thing, but that it was great and that he would do it again.
6. Republicans defend him by claiming the thing he did was normal.

Time after time after time it's the same thing and the usual disingenuous defenses from his supporters.
 
If Trump treats the Ukraine like he did Syria, Russia should take control of that nation in no time.
 
How often has Trump changed his story on Ukraine? Let us count the ways

1569437692491.jpg

Trump and Ukrainian president Volodmyr Zelenskyy.



I imagine Rep. Jim Jordan (R/Ohio) and other Trump attack dogs in the House will dream up even more exotic reasons why presidential extortion is not a high crime and misdemeanor.

The House public hearings (this was a previous GOP excuse) will begin on Wednesday with the US Chargé d'affaires for Ukraine William Taylor providing testimony.

If presidential felony perjury is not a "high crime or misdemeanor" then why is (attempted?) extortion? IMHO, they are both illegal yet fall short of reason to remove a sitting POTUS from office.

IMHO, the real reason for objection to this extortion (while accepting the Joe Biden "fire that guy in six hours or else" extortion) is simply based on the alleged motive. In other words, political motive is super-duper important for judging Trump's actions but not at all important for judging the "whistleblower's" actions.

It is worth noting that both Biden and Trump allege that they saw using extortion (making the release of US foreign aid funds conditional) as a (necessary and valid?) tactic to try to counter Ukrainian corruption.
 
How often has Trump changed his story on Ukraine? Let us count the ways

1569437692491.jpg

Trump and Ukrainian president Volodmyr Zelenskyy.



I imagine Rep. Jim Jordan (R/Ohio) and other Trump attack dogs in the House will dream up even more exotic reasons why presidential extortion is not a high crime and misdemeanor.

The House public hearings (this was a previous GOP excuse) will begin on Wednesday with the US Chargé d'affaires for Ukraine William Taylor providing testimony.

I hope that everyone in this country that understands how deeply significant these testimonies will be, are planning to watch every minute of them. Unfortunately there are Trump supporters that want their news coming out of Facebook or Fox where they can get the 'Cliff Notes' which in academic terms are not reliable. Trump supporters won't put in the work required to sit and listen, they want someone else to summarize it and give it to them and of course those summaries are coming from their own comfort zone sources like Fox.

I can't even categorize any one of the testimonies as more profoundly important than another. I've read those of Fiona Hill, Alex Vindman and Bill Taylor and each one is profoundly disturbing to say the least. It's disturbing to me mainly because of the scope and depth of the collusion in this Ukraine scandal by those men at the very top of power in our government.
 
If presidential felony perjury is not a "high crime or misdemeanor" then why is (attempted?) extortion? IMHO, they are both illegal yet fall short of reason to remove a sitting POTUS from office.

IMHO, the real reason for objection to this extortion (while accepting the Joe Biden "fire that guy in six hours or else" extortion) is simply based on the alleged motive. In other words, political motive is super-duper important for judging Trump's actions but not at all important for judging the "whistleblower's" actions.

It is worth noting that both Biden and Trump allege that they saw using extortion (making the release of US foreign aid funds conditional) as a (necessary and valid?) tactic to try to counter Ukrainian corruption.

You're saying that although extortion and bribery are illegal that it's not enough to impeach Trump? That's where the mindset of the right is. They don't care whether he commits crimes that affect OUR national security, they simply do not care. That's a collective mental illness that has overtaken the right.
 
You're saying that although extortion and bribery are illegal that it's not enough to impeach Trump? That's where the mindset of the right is. They don't care whether he commits crimes that affect OUR national security, they simply do not care. That's a collective mental illness that has overtaken the right.

How, exactly, was "OUR national security" affected? Keeping in mind that Obama withheld all "lethal" military aid to Ukraine.
 
How often has Trump changed his story on Ukraine? Let us count the ways

1569437692491.jpg

Trump and Ukrainian president Volodmyr Zelenskyy.



I imagine Rep. Jim Jordan (R/Ohio) and other Trump attack dogs in the House will dream up even more exotic reasons why presidential extortion is not a high crime and misdemeanor.

The House public hearings (this was a previous GOP excuse) will begin on Wednesday with the US Chargé d'affaires for Ukraine William Taylor providing testimony.

I just heard this morning that Jim Jordan has been appointed to an intelligence committee.

The final shred of proof that we live in Bizzaro world!!!
 
How, exactly, was "OUR national security" affected? Keeping in mind that Obama withheld all "lethal" military aid to Ukraine.

If the testimonies of these people that gave deposition under oath testified are factual, then asking a foreign government who was under extreme duress being under siege from Russia, is totally illegal, 100% illegal and anti-American and anti-Constitutional. We have 17 intelligence agencies in our own government, there are 1,271 government organizations and 1,931 private companies in 10,000 locations in the United States that are working on counterterrorism, homeland security, and intelligence, and that the intelligence community as a whole includes 854,000 people holding top-secret clearances

You tell me one good reason why the president of the United States with 850,000 experienced intelligence agents with top secret security clearances under his control would insist on a government fighting for their own democracy, in the middle of a lethal war with Russia, do any investigations of any type on any U.S. citizen.

Do you really trust a foreign government, one that has been fighting and uncovering deep corruption in their own government for more than seven years to do any investigations of a U.S. citizen?
 
It's pretty much the same cycle of events with every Trump scandal.

1. Trump is involved with something sketchy or says something abhorrent.
2. Republicans defend him by saying it didn't happen.
3. Trump admits it happened.
4. Republicans defend him by saying he was misunderstood.
5. Trump states that he not only did the thing, but that it was great and that he would do it again.
6. Republicans defend him by claiming the thing he did was normal.

Time after time after time it's the same thing and the usual disingenuous defenses from his supporters.

Also, the Trump's is corrupt but, Hillary, Biden, Comey, Obama. Yes the great Republican defense, of course Trump with evidence has displayed guilt. But listen to my non- evidentiary conspiracy spin on the above favorite deflections.
 
On Wednesday, US Charge d'Affaires for Ukraine William Taylor will testify in public in the House impeachment inquiry.

As with Army Lt. Colonel Alexander Vindman, expect Congressional Republicans to attempt to smear Mr. Taylor.

Doing so won't be easy. William Taylor graduated from West Point, attaining the rank of cadet battalion commander and graduating in the top 1% of his class in 1969. After Taylor graduated from West Point, he served in the infantry for six years, including tours of duty in the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, and 18 months with the 101st Airborne Division during the Vietnam War. He earned a Bronze Star and the Air Medal with 'V' for VALOR. In 1977 he completed graduate studies at Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government, receiving a Master of Public Policy degree. From 1992 until 2002 Taylor served with the rank of Ambassador coordinating assistance to Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union. In 2003 Secretary of State Colin L. Powell appointed Taylor as the Afghanistan Coordinator at the U.S. Department of State, overseeing all aspects of U.S. policy toward Afghanistan. Taylor was nominated by President George W. Bush to be United States ambassador to Ukraine and was sworn in on June 5, 2006. In 2015, Taylor was appointed Executive Vice President of the United States Institute of Peace. At the request of US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Taylor came out of retirement in 2019 to lead the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine due to the Trump firing of US Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch.

William B. Taylor Jr.

Yip sounds like a commie to me I wouldn't trust him as far as trump could throw him...
 
If the testimonies of these people that gave deposition under oath testified are factual, then asking a foreign government who was under extreme duress being under siege from Russia, is totally illegal, 100% illegal and anti-American and anti-Constitutional. We have 17 intelligence agencies in our own government, there are 1,271 government organizations and 1,931 private companies in 10,000 locations in the United States that are working on counterterrorism, homeland security, and intelligence, and that the intelligence community as a whole includes 854,000 people holding top-secret clearances

You tell me one good reason why the president of the United States with 850,000 experienced intelligence agents with top secret security clearances under his control would insist on a government fighting for their own democracy, in the middle of a lethal war with Russia, do any investigations of any type on any U.S. citizen.

Do you really trust a foreign government, one that has been fighting and uncovering deep corruption in their own government for more than seven years to do any investigations of a U.S. citizen?

Asking me more questions is not offering any evidence of any threat to US national security. Investigating corruption in Ukraine (even if it involves US citizens) is not a threat to our national security.
 
If presidential felony perjury is not a "high crime or misdemeanor" then why is (attempted?) extortion? IMHO, they are both illegal yet fall short of reason to remove a sitting POTUS from office.

IMHO, the real reason for objection to this extortion (while accepting the Joe Biden "fire that guy in six hours or else" extortion) is simply based on the alleged motive. In other words, political motive is super-duper important for judging Trump's actions but not at all important for judging the "whistleblower's" actions.

It is worth noting that both Biden and Trump allege that they saw using extortion (making the release of US foreign aid funds conditional) as a (necessary and valid?) tactic to try to counter Ukrainian corruption.

One was about a extra.arital afraid that was nobodies ****ing business as it had absolutely o effect on government policy, or national security.

The other was an ongoing covert attempt to extort a foreign government in order to speed false Information on a political opponent...

See the difference???
 
How often has Trump changed his story on Ukraine? Let us count the ways

1569437692491.jpg

Trump and Ukrainian president Volodmyr Zelenskyy.

I imagine Rep. Jim Jordan (R/Ohio) and other Trump attack dogs in the House will dream up even more exotic reasons why presidential extortion is not a high crime and misdemeanor.

The House public hearings (this was a previous GOP excuse) will begin on Wednesday with the US Chargé d'affaires for Ukraine William Taylor providing testimony.

Lets talk about changing stories. I think its important to bring some things to the front. Like nobody on the call has claimed any quid pro quo exist, Zelenski said it didn't happen, DOJ said it didn't happen, the FBI said it didn't happen, the call script clearly shows it didn't happen, but a WB with 2nd and 3rd hand information says it did?

You don't have a single witness with first hand information thus far and no witness that has testified has stated it happened only what they think might have happened.

This is the new Democrat party at its best. We don't care what the first hand people or the transcript says, you are guilty because we want you to be guilty. And what have we found out so far? Schiff lied about not knowing who the WB was, Schiff lied about the contents of the call in his opening statement, now the actual WB who made the claim isn't going to testify?

It looks exactly like what it is. More fake claims just like the Russia Russia Russia hoax. Best of luck at the poles as Americans are not as dumb as you need them to be to buy into this fake impeachment scam.
 
Asking me more questions is not offering any evidence of any threat to US national security. Investigating corruption in Ukraine (even if it involves US citizens) is not a threat to our national security.

He tried to extort and bribe a foreign country to provide dirt on a US citizen, one that "just happened" to be his biggest threat to his reelection. THAT IS ILLEGAL, PERIOD!

Don't you give any importance to upholding the laws written in the U.S. Constitution? Not even a tiny bit? If you dismiss the constitution as just a piece of paper, where do the rest of our laws go? Where does our democracy end up? Who gets to uphold those laws? THAT is where the threat to our very national security starts.
 
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Asking me more questions is not offering any evidence of any threat to US national security. Investigating corruption in Ukraine (even if it involves US citizens) is not a threat to our national security.

You don't believe that extorting a foreign government to try to fix an American election in your own. Personal favor, is somehow not a national security issue???

WOW!!!
 
He tried to extort and bribe a foreign country to provide dirt on a US citizen, one that "just happened" to be his biggest threat to his reelection. THAT IS ILLEGAL, PERIOD!

Something being illegal is not proof that it posed a national security threat. Give up on that nonsense.
 
Something being illegal is not proof that it posed a national security threat. Give up on that nonsense.

You really can't be that uniformed, can you? Don't you think that asking a foreign government to essentially interfere in our election to be a threat to national security?
 
Lets talk about changing stories. I think its important to bring some things to the front. Like nobody on the call has claimed any quid pro quo exist, Zelenski said it didn't happen, DOJ said it didn't happen, the FBI said it didn't happen, the call script clearly shows it didn't happen, but a WB with 2nd and 3rd hand information says it did?

You don't have a single witness with first hand information thus far and no witness that has testified has stated it happened only what they think might have happened.

This is the new Democrat party at its best. We don't care what the first hand people or the transcript says, you are guilty because we want you to be guilty. And what have we found out so far? Schiff lied about not knowing who the WB was, Schiff lied about the contents of the call in his opening statement, now the actual WB who made the claim isn't going to testify?

It looks exactly like what it is. More fake claims just like the Russia Russia Russia hoax. Best of luck at the poles as Americans are not as dumb as you need them to be to buy into this fake impeachment scam.


The post is so full of complete. Bull**** and flat out lies it deserves no consideration whatsoever...
 
You don't believe that extorting a foreign government to try to fix an American election in your own. Personal favor, is somehow not a national security issue???

WOW!!!

There is simply no convincing true believers. They are immune.
 
The post is so full of complete. Bull**** and flat out lies it deserves no consideration whatsoever...

Really? Name one and back it up since I noticed you didn't.

Here it comes, the (I don't have to respond because of X) claim.
 
A whole crap load of Americans are okay with a politician (a POLITICIAN i say) who extorts other countries to help himself (thus keeping power and making more $$$$$).

Many of those people have lied forever about what they think is important and honorable.
 
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