HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF 14%

[Jonsa]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

Yes, I'm suggesting that Capital Gains tax is Theft to pay for Government Programs that don't work. Trickle Down Government doesn't work. Stop the spending, stop stealing our money.

trickle down government? another meaningless righty bumper sticker meme. What exactly is it supposed to mean?

Yes, I was referring to sales tax, et all. The Government never stops taking what you earn.. how much is a "Fair Share"? We don't have to live like this! We have a choice!

Of course the government never stops taking a piece of what you earn, do you ever stop being a citizen?
Live like how exactly? With one of the highest standards of living in history?

Estate aka Death tax is disgusting theft. A Wo/Man has been taxed their entire life, and then when they want to leave something to their kids, its stolen from them and wasted on Government spending.

No, they still get to leave something to their kids. The estate tax kicks in if the estate is valued over $5 million. At that number, all kinds of estate planning can be done to mitigate the tax implications and ensure the largest chunk for the kids/hiers. The kids are not going to be deprived, the dead guy is dead so he can't give a damn. Its not like the kids earned any of it, as you said, mom/dad earned it.

 

[David Watson]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

trickle down government? another meaningless righty bumper sticker meme. What exactly is it supposed to mean?



Of course the government never stops taking a piece of what you earn, do you ever stop being a citizen?
Live like how exactly? With one of the highest standards of living in history?



No, they still get to leave something to their kids. The estate tax kicks in if the estate is valued over $5 million. At that number, all kinds of estate planning can be done to mitigate the tax implications and ensure the largest chunk for the kids/hiers. The kids are not going to be deprived, the dead guy is dead so he can't give a damn. Its not like the kids earned any of it, as you said, mom/dad earned it.

Trickle Down Government means you take money from the backs of Americans and decide behind closed doors who gets some of it trickled on down to them through Government Programs and Deals.

Mom/Dad earned it, and they have the right to do with it as they will. They contributed to society their entire lives and now they leave something to their children and the Government comes in and steals it so they can spend it on Wasteful projects and shady backdoor deals.

 

[cpwill]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

Or how many miles of public interstate highway you can 'sell' to foreigners

and make a mean profit off of, saving the state money and improving the road system at the same time. Gotta looove the superior efficiency of the Free Market

 

[Mithros]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

Trickle Down Government means you take money from the backs of Americans and decide behind closed doors who gets some of it trickled on down to them through Government Programs and Deals.

Mom/Dad earned it, and they have the right to do with it as they will. They contributed to society their entire lives and now they leave something to their children and the Government comes in and steals it so they can spend it on Wasteful projects and shady backdoor deals.

Trickle down government is the latest catchphrase of the PeeWee Herman "I know you are but what am I" campaign.

 

[H. Lee White]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

right.
Except of course all those obligations a government has.

The ONLY revenue outlay the goverment is required to make is the compensation received by the President - those "obligations" you speak of are, in fact, voluntary. and may be cancelled at any time.

If you can find a couple of trillion to shave off govenment spending, I suppose you can pay down the federal debt

Cut all spending by 50%. Revenues will exceed outlays and the debt will fall. Done.

 

[David Watson]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

Trickle down government is the latest catchphrase of the PeeWee Herman "I know you are but what am I" campaign.

If you're not going to contribute to the argument why are you going to speak at all?

Go occupy wall street and complain about problems that DC should be fixing. (lol)

 

[Jonsa]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

Trickle Down Government means you take money from the backs of Americans and decide behind closed doors who gets some of it trickled on down to them through Government Programs and Deals.

O so you mean every democratic government on the planet is "trickle down". Ok thanks for explaining how totally meaningless that republican bumperpstick meme is.

Mom/Dad earned it, and they have the right to do with it as they will. They contributed to society their entire lives and now they leave something to their children and the Government comes in and steals it so they can spend it on Wasteful projects and shady backdoor deals.

the government isn't stealing it, its taxing it. As for your characterization I agree, those damn wasteful military guys, blood sucking homeland security ne'er do wells, lazy border guards, stupid congressmen and senators, totally blind air traffic controllers, etc etc etc. All of them getting sweet backroom deals so they can skim off the top. All on the backs of dumb taxpayers. It boggles the mind that citizens should be expected to actually pay for their government and its misdeeds.

 

[Jonsa]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

The ONLY revenue outlay the goverment is required to make is the compensation received by the President - those "obligations" you speak of are, in fact, voluntary. and may be cancelled at any time.

right. ignore signed contracts, ignore commercial law, ignore treasury bonds, ignore payrolls, ignore utility bills, ignore social security trust obligations, ignore medicaid obligations, ignore veterans obligations, ............

Try to respond as tho its the real world.

Cut all spending by 50%. Revenues will exceed outlays and the debt will fall. Done.

Perfect. why didn't anyone else think of that? So, how long do you think it would take to recover from an immediate 12% drop in gdp..... never mind its obvious discussing economics with you is not a productive use of anyone's time. Perhaps you should read a book or two and then we can have an adult conversation about real world solutions.

 

[Jonsa]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

and make a mean profit off of, saving the state money and improving the road system at the same time. Gotta looove the superior efficiency of the Free Market

privatization of interstate highways. As long as everyone is okay with paying a road tax every time they use the highway I guess its a pretty good idea. As long as they don't mind paying more every two years for the priviledge, as long as they waive their right to sue the private owner every time they use it. As long as they have no problem with expropiration of private property to benefit private enterprise.

It might save the state some money, but it will wind up costing citizens way more.

 

[H. Lee White]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

right. ignore signed contracts, ignore commercial law, ignore treasury bonds, ignore payrolls, ignore utility bills, ignore social security trust obligations, ignore medicaid obligations, ignore veterans obligations,

All of these "obligations" were created by legislation. Nothing necessitated the creation legislation, and nothing prevents it from being repealed. Thus, spending on each and every one of these things is voluntary, as we choose to spend it.

Perfect.

I know.

So, how long do you think it would take to recover from an immediate 12% drop in gdp

Given that I suggest a long-term solution, short term negative effects do not create a sound argument against that suggestion, nor do they negate the soundness of the suggestion itself.
Surgery sucks, but a burst appendix is far worse.

Never mind than any economy that relies on spending by its government to remain afloat - as you say - is, in and of itself, unsound.

..... never mind its obvious discussing economics with you is not a productive use of anyone's time.

Please be sure to tuck that tail in real tight as you run from the discussion...

 

[jonny5]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

right. ignore signed contracts, ignore commercial law, ignore treasury bonds, ignore payrolls, ignore utility bills, ignore social security trust obligations, ignore medicaid obligations, ignore veterans obligations, ............

Try to respond as tho its the real world.




Perfect. why didn't anyone else think of that? So, how long do you think it would take to recover from an immediate 12% drop in gdp..... never mind its obvious discussing economics with you is not a productive use of anyone's time. Perhaps you should read a book or two and then we can have an adult conversation about real world solutions.

Says the guy calling others names.

 

[jonny5]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

privatization of interstate highways. As long as everyone is okay with paying a road tax every time they use the highway I guess its a pretty good idea. As long as they don't mind paying more every two years for the priviledge, as long as they waive their right to sue the private owner every time they use it. As long as they have no problem with expropiration of private property to benefit private enterprise.

It might save the state some money, but it will wind up costing citizens way more.

Or you just pay for roads through drivers licenses and auto registration fees, like many states do. No need to pay it every time. Not to mention we would have less 'roads to nowhere' and big digs. And who would have a problem with what private property owners do with their property?

 

[Jonsa]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

All of these "obligations" were created by legislation. Nothing necessitated the creation legislation, and nothing prevents it from being repealed. Thus, spending on each and every one of these things is voluntary, as we choose to spend it.

Can you repeal your credit card obligations? I would say that there are an enormous number of things that would prevent appeal of government obligations. Let's just take treasury bonds and their interest obligations - repeal that and the entire world economy collapses - I'd say that is a something stopping morons from attempting such a suicidal legislative path.

You don't get to pick and choose obligations to honor just because those obligations may have resulted from legislation. If you think that the good faith and credit of the United States can be punted around or ignored, you are simply not living in the real world. Witness the teapublican ignoramuses of 2010.

Given that I suggest a long-term solution, short term negative effects do not create a sound argument against that suggestion, nor do they negate the soundness of the suggestion itself.
Surgery sucks, but a burst appendix is far worse.

Short term negative effects? a 12% drop in gdp is depression creating, as in global depression. Cut 50% and you have millions of starving homless people on the street - short term I guess since it'll only take a year for them to starve to death. Cut 50% and the pentagon becomes the quadrangle and the military industrial complex goes in the ****ter. Cut 50% and a bunch of states go bankrupt acccelerating the depression. You obviously have not thought this out.

Never mind than any economy that relies on spending by its government to remain afloat - as you say - is, in and of itself, unsound

Pretty well every economy relies on government spending to a degree. That is not unsound, it is desirable, necessary and reflective of economic reality. At 24% of GDP currently, you propose a 12% cut in gdp off the top. I agree 24% is normally to high, and it must be brought down over time as the recovery strengthens to 18-19%.

Please be sure to tuck that tail in real tight as you run from the discussion...

I don't have to run from the likes of you sonny boy. Your display of economic prowess is some what short of fear inspiring.

 

[Jonsa]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

Says the guy calling others names.

calling who names? Is admonishing someone to read a book and get educated a epithet? Is desiring an adult conversation and epithet?

strange view.

 

[H. Lee White]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

Can you repeal your credit card obligations? I would say that there are an enormous number of things that would prevent appeal of government obligations.

All of which amount to a choice.

Short term negative effects?

Compared to the economic, governmental and societal collapse of the US? Yep.

Pretty well every economy relies on government spending to a degree.

Then pretty much every economy is unsound, to a degree.

I don't have to run from the likes of you sonny boy.

In all reality you do, given that you have yet to effectively respond to anything I said.

 

[Jonsa]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

Or you just pay for roads through drivers licenses and auto registration fees, like many states do. No need to pay it every time. Not to mention we would have less 'roads to nowhere' and big digs. And who would have a problem with what private property owners do with their property?

So you have no problem with private enterprise essentially being paid thru driver licence and registration fees, which of course would necessitate a substantial increase in those costs, to cover the private corporations costs and their profit. Imagine private enterprise mandating public fees. I can imagine a state like montana attempting to pay for their interstate highways thru license/registration fees - where they might have 300 or 400K drivers.

If a new road needs to be build, and the best path is thru private property and the owner of that property wants an unrealistic way over the top market price, then you can bet it will be expropriated on behalf of private enterprise.

I think there area a number of emminent domain cases on the east coast where in one instance a homeowner "lost" his house to a casino in NJ. Something tells me a road is way more important that a casino.

 

[Jonsa]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

All of which amount to a choice.

Like its a choice to breath. Let's no play semantic games. In reality many of those choices are not reversable.

Compared to the economic, governmental and societal collapse of the US? Yep.

Yes, but that isn't about to happen in the forseeable future. I am obviously familiar with the adage short term pain for long term gain, but in your scenerio its short term pain for perhaps long long term gain, and since you cannot predict the platform of future governments its entirely possible that in the long run there would be no gain since fugure governments would be underpressure tremendous pressure.

this can be seen today. The culmination of a variety of policies, mis-steps and abuse produces a recession of huge dimension. Because recovery is slower than the public and opposition would like, they voting public is pondering a return to many of the economic policies that contributed to that recession in the first place. Public memory is short, public demand is not necessarily reasonable nor rational, and there's always somebody ready to pander to it for the sake of power.

Then pretty much every economy is unsound, to a degree.

Of course. there never has been a "sound" economy. Lets not confuse short periods of economic prosperity with underlying economic soundness. Global and national economies are man made constructs with far too many complexities for anyone to micromanage. Citizen demands from their government's management of the economy do not necessarily mesh with sound economic decision making .

In all reality you do, given that you have yet to effectively respond to anything I said.

Perhaps its time to spruce up that reading comprehension or return from that alternate reality, I have responded specifically to what you said.

 

[cpwill]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

privatization of interstate highways. As long as everyone is okay with paying a road tax every time they use the highway I guess its a pretty good idea

:shrug: it was already a poll road.

 

[Lutherf]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

Or you just pay for roads through drivers licenses and auto registration fees, like many states do. No need to pay it every time. Not to mention we would have less 'roads to nowhere' and big digs. And who would have a problem with what private property owners do with their property?

So you have no problem with private enterprise essentially being paid thru driver licence and registration fees, which of course would necessitate a substantial increase in those costs, to cover the private corporations costs and their profit. Imagine private enterprise mandating public fees. I can imagine a state like montana attempting to pay for their interstate highways thru license/registration fees - where they might have 300 or 400K drivers.

If a new road needs to be build, and the best path is thru private property and the owner of that property wants an unrealistic way over the top market price, then you can bet it will be expropriated on behalf of private enterprise.

I think there area a number of emminent domain cases on the east coast where in one instance a homeowner "lost" his house to a casino in NJ. Something tells me a road is way more important that a casino.

Just an FYI....we all already pay a whole lot of highway tax. 18¢ of every gallon of gas you buy is federal tax and all the states also have a tax on that too. The federal funds are allocated amongst the various states by Congress so guess what happens? States like CA and NY with lots of congressmen tend to get lots of highway dollars while other states get hosed.

Unless your congressman happens to be one of the 43 members of the subcommittee for highways and transit you're likely to get screwed on highway funds. Right now that committee is roughly 90% east coast and California so if you live elsewhere and want highway funds you are going to need to cut a deal with someone. Pretty ****ty way to do business, right?

Now, if funds were just allocated to the states based on interstate lane miles or something of the sort we might be better off but wouldn't it be a better idea all together to put the bulk of this responsibility back on the states instead?

 

[David Watson]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

O so you mean every democratic government on the planet is "trickle down". Ok thanks for explaining how totally meaningless that republican bumperpstick meme is.

Yes, exactly. Democracy is theft. Restore the Constitutional Republic! Elect the Conservative Right.

 

[The Barbarian]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

As a percentage of income yes they pay less for those things. State, local taxes I can't say for every state but that's how it is in Kentucky and several other states. I'm sorry that I offended you. Keep up the good work defending your masters.

Again I’ll ask the same question I keep asking, and never do seem to get and answer too. Romney paid roughly 3 million dollars in taxes in 2011 that is a simple fact correct?


In 2011 I’m going to take a guess and say you paid less then $5,000 in taxes in 2011 am I close?




Now tell me what government services that you feel Romney used more then you did ? If he used the roadways more then you, then didn’t he pay more in gas taxes to boot? If he flew more then you did, then didn’t he pay more in fuel taxes on jet fuel then you did.


Romney paid roughly 600 times more then most Americans in federal taxes yet in all probability used our government resources less .


Here is something else that troubles me, it seems like we love to pick on those upper 5% for their deductions. Remember that those upper 5% only make up 7.5 million of the work force. That leaves about 142.5 million in the work force, and you know what? I bet most of them take standardized deductions that they don’t really do, just think of how much money that could be if those 142 million people were cheating on their taxes by just 100 dollars Shouldn’t there be outrage at them as well? Or do we hold 5% to a different standard ?


I just don’t understand the need to vilify people in this country because they are highly successful, now if Romney did something illegal on his taxes, that’s another story. But if he had .. I would think we would have heard about that by now. From what I can research, Romney doesn’t owe the IRS anything in back taxes, (as many of Obama’s appointees did) He has done nothing but follow the tax laws to the letter.


Then to boot you same people complain because he wants to change those tax laws that allow him these deductions so that those in the top 5% can’t profit from them so much. Instead you call it a “tax cut for the rich”


I don’t know the details of his tax plan any more then you do .. But lets suppose it does this, cuts the top rate to 25% reduces or eliminates deductions to where his effective tax rate becomes 15% in 2011 he paid an effective rate of 14.1% if that was to go to 15% it would be an increase in his tax of 1.8 million dollars … paying 1.8 million more hardly seems like a tax cut to me. Does it to you?


What I’m trying to point out is that you can’t have it both ways, you whine and cry about the deductions he has under our present tax system … then whine and cry about him wanting to change the system.


So maybe it won’t be a 20% cut .. Maybe it’s only 15 % I’ve just shown you how the number can work. If it ends up being and effective tax rate higher then under our present system, then it’s a tax hike not a tax cut.

 

[Aimee30]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

Why do they deserve a lower tax break for buying yachts even if workers make the yachts? The bigger point is making money off of others unscrupulously...

 

[Aimee30]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

I don't see how I would benefit from a flat tax--but I do see how cutting their tax will cut what they owe...
In addition, why cut beneficial programs like what the Republicans usually go after just to have a flat tax? I guess I'm biased because I saw education cut by Walker and it has had an impact....

 

[Panopticon]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

So all you have is attacking the source? I know Fox is nearly as bad as MSNBC or ThinkProgress, but you don't even pretend to address the point made?

While I avoid both msnbc and thinkprogress because Ive seen them as as bad as Fox, research shows that while the two aforementioned have a clear bias, Fox still remains well ahead. Research also shows fox viewers as being the most misinformed viewers

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: HOw many people making 50K a year are paying an EFFECTIVE FED INCOME TAX RATE OF

Why do they deserve a lower tax break for buying yachts even if workers make the yachts? The bigger point is making money off of others unscrupulously...

that is a moronic assumption but sadly is common among the envious left.