How long until you realize trump has lied to you and every other person who voted for him?

[bongsaway]

Actually, he said "it will be hard" to lower prices. And he's right - Dems will do everything possible to block him - they don't care about the people answering long as they can score a few points.

WTF? It's corporate America who controls prices, it has zero to do with the Democrats. You guys have been fed so much bullshit from your leadership you don't even know which way is up any longer.

 

[Jay59]

Oh, you are a gop supporter who didn't vote for trump?

I was never a Republican.

You are claiming COVID only caused inflation for so long. COVID caused most of the inflation, greedy corporate America caused the rest but y'all want to blame the Democrats while you support big business screwing all of us.

I would ask you to support that but I know better now.

Lease auctions has zero to do with leases already held by the oil and gas industries, nothing was stopping them from using them but again, you want to blame the Democrats for what corporate America is doing.

Democrats are not making leases available so they are to blame.

COVID and corporate America had the wheel and you are only kidding you if you think otherwise.

Conspiracy Theory is a different forum.

He already told you he won't be able to keep his promise to lower prices and it's one of the big things he campaigned on or am I making it up? Do you need videos to refresh your memory?

He will be able to get prices petroleum products down and that will easy inflationary pressure throughout the economy.

WTF? It's corporate America who controls prices,

Mostly in your nightmares.

it has zero to do with the Democrats.

You cannot hold Democrats blameless if they are sitting on the good leases.

You guys have been fed so much bullshit from your leadership you don't even know which way is up any longer.

I don't need to be pointed upward.

Following the facts does it for me.

 

[Perotista]

My mind won't be changed until there are facts that support that change.

Then R's simply believe in lies and become Rube-publicans.

Turnout is always the issue. Unfortunately, it is apparent to me that sexists, racists, and classists are not limited to the Republican Party.

No one is trying to change your mind. When it comes to partisan republicans and democrats, forget it. Their guy is the greatest, the other guy the worst. Partisans or party loyalist will always believe that. No changing minds. Talking about Biden’s legacy, you have this.

Americans Think History Will Rate Biden Presidency Negatively

https://news.gallup.com/poll/654878...utm_content=morelink&utm_campaign=syndication

This is all Americans and it is also broken down via party. But what does this really mean. Truman was viewed very negatively at the end of his presidency; 33% I believe viewed him positively. Today, Truman is considered a near great president. This falls in line with what historians say, that they need 20 years after a president leaves office to rate his presidency accurately as that give them time to see how a president’s policies affected this country long term.

As for Harris’s defeat, voter turnout is the key. Whether or not the lack of democrats turning out can be blame on what you said, that’s debatable. I think it had more to do with dissatisfaction with the Biden administration, instead of voting for Trump, they decided they’d stay home and not vote. But since there aren’t any exit polls among those who stayed home, no one will ever know for sure.

For me, Biden was okay, not good and not bad. Okay or average. I had no problems with him, but apparently most Americans did as the 56% disapproved of the job Biden did.

 

[mrjurrs]

No one is trying to change your mind. When it comes to partisan republicans and democrats, forget it. Their guy is the greatest, the other guy the worst. Partisans or party loyalist will always believe that. No changing minds. Talking about Biden’s legacy, you have this.

Americans Think History Will Rate Biden Presidency Negatively

https://news.gallup.com/poll/654878...utm_content=morelink&utm_campaign=syndication

This is all Americans and it is also broken down via party. But what does this really mean. Truman was viewed very negatively at the end of his presidency; 33% I believe viewed him positively. Today, Truman is considered a near great president. This falls in line with what historians say, that they need 20 years after a president leaves office to rate his presidency accurately as that give them time to see how a president’s policies affected this country long term.

As for Harris’s defeat, voter turnout is the key. Whether or not the lack of democrats turning out can be blame on what you said, that’s debatable. I think it had more to do with dissatisfaction with the Biden administration, instead of voting for Trump, they decided they’d stay home and not vote. But since there aren’t any exit polls among those who stayed home, no one will ever know for sure.

For me, Biden was okay, not good and not bad. Okay or average. I had no problems with him, but apparently most Americans did as the 56% disapproved of the job Biden did.

You miss my point. I make up my mind based on actual conditions. It then requires a change in fact for me to change my mind...I don't simply believe.

Americans also thought the 2020 election was stolen, will history validate that view?

 

[Perotista]

You miss my point. I make up my mind based on actual conditions. It then requires a change in fact for me to change my mind...I don't simply believe.

Americans also thought the 2020 election was stolen, will history validate that view?

Not most. From the polls I’ve seen, this one from 31 Dec 2024, 63% of all Americans state Biden legitimately won, 37% illegitimately or stolen. But breaking it down, Democrats 96% legit, 4% illegit, Republicans were the opposite, 29% Biden won legitimately, 71% illegitimately or stolen. Independents, 64% Biden won legitimately, 36% illegitimately. Question 30 on the 2020 election.

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_Goy6hsR.pdf

However, on the 2024 election, question 31, 32% of democrats state Trump’s win was illegitimately. Only 15% of all Americans believe Trump’s win was illegit. There’s a big difference between republicans of 2020, 71% believing the election was stolen compared to the 32% of democrats who think this years election was stolen. But you can still see the partisan breakdown. Personally, I don’t believe either election was stolen.

The partisan effect let’s compare the end of Trump in 2020 to the end of Biden in 2024. Average job approval 2020 Trump 43%, Biden 2024 41%. Party breakdown, republicans Trump 2020 82%. Democrats 4%, independents 30%. Biden 2024, democrats 85%, republicans 2%, independents 37%. Not much difference except it’s the democrats giving only a single digit approval to Trump while republicans give a single digit approval to Biden. Same with the approvals, Democrats giving Biden 85%, republicans giving Trump 82%. Independents, the non-affiliated, the less to non-partisans thought both Trump when he was president and Biden sucked.

Presidential Job Approval Center

Explore Gallup data on presidential job approval ratings from Truman to Biden.

news.gallup.com

 

[Luce]

What I take you’re saying is the 56% of all Americans who thought Biden and company did a bad job are ignorant. Again, that is an elitist attitude. I don’t like Trump, never voted for him and would never vote for him. Of those who voted Trump received 49.8% of the vote. 1.5 points more than Harris. All sorts of folks voted for Trump in hopes he’d do a better job than Biden and Company. 47% of all Americans thought their family’s situation was worse today than it was 4 years ago,

This is why they are dumb.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Trump constantly lies about everything.

If you don't know that by now then bless your heart.

 

[bongsaway]

I was never a Republican.


I would ask you to support that but I know better now.


Democrats are not making leases available so they are to blame.


Conspiracy Theory is a different forum.


He will be able to get prices petroleum products down and that will easy inflationary pressure throughout the economy.


Mostly in your nightmares.


You cannot hold Democrats blameless if they are sitting on the good leases.


I don't need to be pointed upward.

Following the facts does it for me.

Let me take a wild guess, you're an independent?

Biden Administration Reopens Federal Lands for Oil and Gas Leasing Under Reformed Program​

Brownstein Client Alert, April 20, 2022...notice the date.
As of November 2024, the current inflation rate in the United States is 2.7%.
Tell us if you will, how is he going to get gas prices down? Does he control the oil and gas industries?
He's already told you bringing down prices will be hard, those are his words, you can take any meaning from them you wish.

 

[Perotista]

This is why they are dumb.

Hmm. So, folks who have to pay more for food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, etc. than 4 years ago are dumb? What do you expect them to do? Do without? Most could afford the essentials of life 4 years ago, today they’re have a very hard time doing so. They think they were better off 4 years ago than today, that I understand. Shame you don’t. Maybe you never had to work week to week to keep your family afloat.

 

[Jay59]

Let me take a wild guess, you're an independent?

Of course.

Biden Administration Reopens Federal Lands for Oil and Gas Leasing Under Reformed Program Brownstein Client Alert, April 20, 2022...notice the date.
As of November 2024, the current inflation rate in the United States is 2.7%.
Tell us if you will, how is he going to get gas prices down?

Reopen federal lands for leases.

We've covered this.

Does he control the oil and gas industries?

Why would Trump need to control them directly? He controls something that they need.

He's already told you bringing down prices will be hard, those are his words, you can take any meaning from them you wish.

Not exactly.

Regardless, getting O&G products down will help easy inflation and also provide jobs.

 

[bongsaway]

Of course.


Reopen federal lands for leases.

We've covered this.


Why would Trump need to control them directly? He controls something that they need.


Not exactly.

Regardless, getting O&G products down will help easy inflation and also provide jobs.

Why then do you sound like a Republican and seem to support the GOP?
And how long were they 'closed'? Easy to figure out cause you sure tried to make it sound like they were closed the entire time Biden was in office.
And what do these companies need from trump that he can control them?
Do you even know what the current inflation rate happens to be?

 

[Jay59]

Why then do you sound like a Republican and seem to support the GOP?

The Republicans have the facts going for them.

You have been backing the liars.

And how long were they 'closed'? Easy to figure out cause you sure tried to make it sound like they were closed the entire time Biden was in office.

As much and as many as they could manage.

This was an area where the Biden administration tried to take both sides. They publically supported O&G production while quietly trying to squelch anything new.

And what do these companies need from trump that he can control them?

Weir d question?

Trump is not trying to control any company. His administration controls a lot of valuable leases that they can release.

Do you even know what the current inflation rate happens to be?

It depends on how you define the inflation rate.

2024 has been 3.3% through October. For the last available 12 months, it's 3.9%.

 

[bongsaway]

The Republicans have the facts going for them.

You have been backing the liars.


As much and as many as they could manage.

This was an area where the Biden administration tried to take both sides. They publically supported O&G production while quietly trying to squelch anything new.


Weir d question?

Trump is not trying to control any company. His administration controls a lot of valuable leases that they can release.


It depends on how you define the inflation rate.

2024 has been 3.3% through October. For the last available 12 months, it's 3.9%.

What a lame response. Trump is king liar and you say the GOP has the facts with them? Hilarious. Backing the liars, hilarious, you listen and believe your leadership way too much. So do you not know how long the leases were not available for and do you not know the current rate of inflation, it's not 3.9%. Once again, the oil and gas companies have plenty of leases in their pockets, they don't need more from trump to continue doing business. I don't define the inflation rate, I look it up.

The annual inflation rate for the United States was 2.7% for the 12 months ending November, compared to the previous rate increase of 2.6%, according to U.S. Labor Department data published on December 11, 2024. The next inflation update is scheduled for release on January 15 at 8:30 a.m.

This is the current info that I found.

 

[Luce]

Hmm. So, folks who have to pay more for food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, etc. than 4 years ago are dumb?

Yes, if you think back to what things were like during the last Trump administration.

 

[Perotista]

Yes, if you think back to what things were like during the last Trump administration.

Depends on what things you’re looking at. For financial situation, pocketbooks, the ability to make ends meet, then yes, things were better under Trump. On other issues, one’s political views or ideology is probably the overriding factor that determines if things were better under Trump than Biden. Personally, my financial situation hasn’t changed from Bush II, to Obama to Trump to Biden and how I view each’s governing ability according to my likes and dislikes hasn’t changed either. Then again, I don’t or didn’t have a political agenda to push nor have any loyalty to either major party. Just someone who loves to research, study elections and their results. I think Trump was and is a nincompoop, with Obama and Biden being much more refined with presidential behavior one expects from the president of the USA.

If I had my way, McCain would have become president in 2008, either Kasich or Jim Webb in 2016. Actually, anyone else other than Trump and Clinton in 2016. Biden was my choice in 2020 and this year, I didn’t have a choice, once again wanting someone other than Trump and Harris.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Hmm. So, folks who have to pay more for food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, etc. than 4 years ago are dumb? What do you expect them to do? Do without? Most could afford the essentials of life 4 years ago, today they’re have a very hard time doing so. They think they were better off 4 years ago than today, that I understand. Shame you don’t. Maybe you never had to work week to week to keep your family afloat.

People who think that was caused by the president are dumb.

 

[JerryW]

Actually, he said "it will be hard" to lower prices. And he's right - Dems will do everything possible to block him - they don't care about the people answering long as they can score a few points.

Ah! That's one of the arguments you'll be using, even tho Dems don't have a majority in either house. (And we won't forget the successes of the previous Congress, right?)

 

[StarvedForChange]

I'll bring prices down he declared, after the election he already admitted he can't do much about prices. Is that enough to realize you've been trumped? On january the twenty second when the war between Russia and Ukraine doesn't end, will you admit once again you've been lied to and trumped? If in two years gas prices have not come down significantly, will you admit once again you've been lied to and trumped? If in two years there is not progress on immigration, will you admit trump lied to you and you've been trumped?

What will it take for you to admit to yourself, trump has done nothing but lie to get himself back into the oval office so he can once again act like an ass and make a laughingstock of America?

Most Americans who voted for Trump knew he was a lying sack of garbage but were turned on by his racism and fake populism. America is getting the administration it deserves.

 

[JerryW]

Democrats are not making leases available so they are to blame.

A pretty limited summary of what the 46th administration did. Basically fuel spills on water - particularly coastal waters - are very destructive and take years & years to undo - we have enough risk already.

There are plenty of of existing leases that are not being used. And the USA is a peak producer and has been for a few years now.

 

[Perotista]

People who think that was caused by the president are dumb.

That happens because all presidents during economic good times tell the people, shout from the mountain tops that it was their policies that created and maintained the good times economically. This has been going on since George Washington. Hence when the economy takes a downturn, presidents are going to get blamed. This comes with the job. This has been a well-known fact for eons.

Democrats blamed G.H.W. Bush for the recession in 1992, blamed G.W. Bush for the 2007 and 2008 recession and gave a ton of credit to Obama for the economic recovery. Now they get all uptight when Biden gets the blame. Either presidents can affect the economy, or they can’t. You can’t have it both ways.

 

[Jay59]

A pretty limited summary of what the 46th administration did. Basically fuel spills on water - particularly coastal waters - are very destructive and take years & years to undo - we have enough risk already.

We were not discussing offshore.

That is also an area that can be reopened, but that is not germane to this discussion.

There are plenty of of existing leases that are not being used. And the USA is a peak producer and has been for a few years now.

What's your point?

Better leases can be auctioned. More domestic production also means more jobs.

 

[JerryW]

Better leases can be auctioned. More domestic production also means more jobs.

Including remediation jobs.

On shore leases - many are being held inactive by the producers because they are extracting plenty without having everything in production.

Drilling, baby, drilling has negative impacts as well as positive. Perspective is related to values. That's my point.

 

[mrjurrs]

Not most. From the polls I’ve seen, this one from 31 Dec 2024, 63% of all Americans state Biden legitimately won, 37% illegitimately or stolen. But breaking it down, Democrats 96% legit, 4% illegit, Republicans were the opposite, 29% Biden won legitimately, 71% illegitimately or stolen. Independents, 64% Biden won legitimately, 36% illegitimately. Question 30 on the 2020 election.

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_Goy6hsR.pdf

However, on the 2024 election, question 31, 32% of democrats state Trump’s win was illegitimately. Only 15% of all Americans believe Trump’s win was illegit. There’s a big difference between republicans of 2020, 71% believing the election was stolen compared to the 32% of democrats who think this years election was stolen. But you can still see the partisan breakdown. Personally, I don’t believe either election was stolen.

The partisan effect let’s compare the end of Trump in 2020 to the end of Biden in 2024. Average job approval 2020 Trump 43%, Biden 2024 41%. Party breakdown, republicans Trump 2020 82%. Democrats 4%, independents 30%. Biden 2024, democrats 85%, republicans 2%, independents 37%. Not much difference except it’s the democrats giving only a single digit approval to Trump while republicans give a single digit approval to Biden. Same with the approvals, Democrats giving Biden 85%, republicans giving Trump 82%. Independents, the non-affiliated, the less to non-partisans thought both Trump when he was president and Biden sucked.

Presidential Job Approval Center

Explore Gallup data on presidential job approval ratings from Truman to Biden.

news.gallup.com

Didn't make that claim. If I was specific, I would have said R's.

I would suggest to you that a large portion of D's think it was stolen because an insurrectionist was allowed on the ballot, not because of voter fraud.

 

[Jay59]

On shore leases - many are being held inactive by the producers because they are extracting plenty without having everything in production.

Leases are inactive because the cost of production is too high to make a profit.

It's basic supply/demand economics.

Drilling, baby, drilling has negative impacts as well as positive. Perspective is related to values. That's my point.

Noted.

More domestic production means fewer international purchases which is good. It means more high paying jobs which is good. Lower priced domestic production directly influences fuels costs and has a ripple effect through the economy.

 

[NolanVoyd]

That happens because all presidents during economic good times tell the people, shout from the mountain tops that it was their policies that created and maintained the good times economically. This has been going on since George Washington. Hence when the economy takes a downturn, presidents are going to get blamed. This comes with the job. This has been a well-known fact for eons.

But there are facts.

The inflation was global. Had to do with rapidly increasing demand and lagging supply coming out of covid.

Not the doing of the American president.

in so far as the American president can influence it at all youd have have to say Biden did fine because it is a fact that the US faired better than other

Democrats blamed G.H.W. Bush for the recession in 1992, blamed G.W. Bush for the 2007 and 2008 recession

That was the direct result of US policy, specifically the Grahm, Leach, Bliley act. Grahm Leach and Bliley, all Republicans by the way. Signed by Clinton. That deregulated banking that lead to the financial collapse etc.

. Either presidents can affect the economy, or they can’t. You can’t have it both ways.

Presidents have a large effect in some areas of the economy, virtually none in other areas.

People that are economically literate can look at facts and put blame where it's due. As well as credit.

Sadly most Americans are economically illiterate.

They actually blamed Biden for high gas prices. Any change in US policy would only have a small effect, which wouldn't be realized for a decade or so.