How long before...

[Apostle13]

Grand mal.
As in "very bad".
As opposed to petit mal, which is just a little bit bad.

That's friggin' hilarious, a "grandma".

:lamo

Hey... Are you laughing at me, or with me.?? Is funny either way.

 

[Thorgasm]

lol... Just to be sure you're sure cause otherwise I'm not..? A "grandmal" is a type of seizure... My spelling was a slight off... Flashing/blinking lights can sometimes induce these episodes in people who suffer this condition.

Next time, just leave it at "grandma". It's funnier that way. :2wave:

 

[Apostle13]

Next time, just leave it at "grandma". It's funnier that way. :2wave:

I suppose... lol
I was just trying to force a "Thanks" out of Felicity.

 

[Felicity]

I suppose... lol
I was just trying to force a "Thanks" out of Felicity.

Yeah...I knew it was grand mal and that it was a typo or perhaps a malaprop--I call my husband "Malaprop Man" sometimes. He once was really mad about something, just FUMING, and he said, "I am absolutely LIPID!" I couldn't help laughing (which didn't go over well at the time:3oops but if you'd seen my husband--he's anything but fat--"wirey" we call him.

Still it was a funny line...I'll thank you for that!

 

[Monk-Eye]

Darkness' End - Lightness' Emergence

"Darkness' End - Lightness' Emergence"

Thanks to my cult like upbringing, Christmas has no significance in my life therefor I will not miss it when the minions of the left completely destroy whatever it was supposed mean. It seems like a harmless enough of a holiday though. Not sure why anybody gets their panties in a wad over it.......

As members of the world, many seek to add meaning and significance to their lives by intimating natural phenomenon.

By applying symbolism and allegory to the concrete phenomenon of the celestial event (winter solstice), it should be easy to figure out its representation and meaning as the time of transition to longer warmer days, as the repreive from barren, cold darkness, and its associated (re)birth celebrations.

The entanglement of the macrocosm and microcosm, as a parallel association of celestial events and human fatalism, as the bringing of hope to humankind is interesting.

Settings of stage and icons of mythos are spectacular in the events of a life.

 

[Cephus]

If a majority can decide the size that basement windows have to be in your community, the majority can decide to put Jesus on public property.

I'm not aware of anywhere that building codes have been put up for public vote. Building codes are set for public safety and there is no concept in the founding documents of this country that refer to building codes. There most certainly are for separation of church and state.

Look - I agree. but come frigging on. The amount of money a community spends to decorate the Town Square is chicken feed in the grand scheme of things.

Waste is waste and shouldn't be tolerated no matter what the waste happens to be. If you want to have a display on your property, knock yourself out. Make a five-story manger for all I care, so long as you get the proper permits and build it to code. Just recognize the difference between public and private property and what belongs where.

 

[jallman]

I'm not aware of anywhere that building codes have been put up for public vote. Building codes are set for public safety and there is no concept in the founding documents of this country that refer to building codes. There most certainly are for separation of church and state.



Waste is waste and shouldn't be tolerated no matter what the waste happens to be. If you want to have a display on your property, knock yourself out. Make a five-story manger for all I care, so long as you get the proper permits and build it to code. Just recognize the difference between public and private property and what belongs where.

So you still haven't answered my question: If the majority of a town donates materials and time to placing a display in an otherwise unused public space, do you have a problem with that?

 

[ARealConservative]

I'm not aware of anywhere that building codes have been put up for public vote. Building codes are set for public safety and there is no concept in the founding documents of this country that refer to building codes. There most certainly are for separation of church and state.

Building codes aren't generally set by referendum, but elected officials do decide on these issues.

I'm pretty familiar with our constitution and how we got to the place we are today. Apparently saving you from seeing a Nativity Scene is now a priviledge and immunity. :roll:

 

[Mach]

What about those cases where the materials and time have been donated?

It's public space. They can use private space tax free, why would we also give them public space, and violate church/state? I don't even think it's the church part that's the issue here, although it's certainly a sufficient condition for excluding it.

Donating time/materials is irrelevant. I don't think the public should allow me to create a gigantic bronze statue of myself with a big bulge in my pants, and erect it in a public space, and then justify it my saying "but I paid for it all". Really? Can I come to put that up on your boardwalk?

-Mach

 

[jallman]

It's public space. They can use private space tax free, why would we also give them public space, and violate church/state?

First you are going to have to prove that it is a violation of church and state to allow private citizens access to unused public space.

I don't even think it's the church part that's the issue here, although it's certainly a sufficient condition for excluding it.

You'll be needing to prove that.

Donating time/materials is irrelevant.

It is more than just relevant. It is key when considering Cephus's sole objection is use of public money.

I don't think the public should allow me to create a gigantic bronze statue of myself with a big bulge in my pants, and erect it in a public space, and then justify it my saying "but I paid for it all". Really? Can I come to put that up on your boardwalk?

-Mach

Now you are being obtuse. But just to humor you, public space available for a temporary, seasonal display for the majority is a far cry different from huge bronze statues with pornographic undertones coming from a single individual. Your comparison is completely invalid.

 

[UtahBill]

It's public space. I don't think the public should allow me to create a gigantic bronze statue of myself with a big bulge in my pants, and erect it in a public space, and then justify it my saying "but I paid for it all". Really? Can I come to put that up on your boardwalk?

-Mach

Public space vs. pubic space? Socks belong on your feet, bubba....
But I agree that there is ample public space on church property for religious displays. Surely that is good enough? Or should pro ROE vs. Wade types be allowed to put up pro abortion displays on public property? The whole thing is silly. Like I likes to say, "extreme positions of any variation are usually a waste of time".
Nobody should even expect to get all they want all the time.

 

[Cephus]

So you still haven't answered my question: If the majority of a town donates materials and time to placing a display in an otherwise unused public space, do you have a problem with that?

Yes I do because the public space is intended to represent *ALL*, not just a majority. I suppose I'd be less worried about it if 100% of the population supported it, but how often does anyone ask the entire population of a town?

 

[jallman]

Yes I do because the public space is intended to represent *ALL*, not just a majority. I suppose I'd be less worried about it if 100% of the population supported it, but how often does anyone ask the entire population of a town?

So how do you account for it being legal to rent civic centers to churches or libraries allowing church groups to use their facilities for bible studies? Just because it is public space doesn't mean there is some kind of directive that it has to be all inclusive all the time. Good luck trying to show precedent that says otherwise.

 

[mikhail]

I cant wait for winterval

 

[Thorgasm]

So how do you account for it being legal to rent civic centers to churches or libraries allowing church groups to use their facilities for bible studies? Just because it is public space doesn't mean there is some kind of directive that it has to be all inclusive all the time. Good luck trying to show precedent that says otherwise.

Renting a civic center is not the same as free advertising. There are plenty of churches for that. Why do you think they still build them so tall and give them exemptions for noise ordinances with their bells?

Bible studies are well within the boundaries of a library. The bible is a book.

 

[jallman]

Renting a civic center is not the same as free advertising. There are plenty of churches for that. Why do you think they still build them so tall and give them exemptions for noise ordinances with their bells?

And how does that have anything to do with equal access to public spaces such as parks, etc?

And I hardly consider a decorated tree or a nativity scene or a menorah to be "advertisement". The fact is, a majority of people celebrate Christmas (NOT "winter holiday" or any other nonsense but CHRISTmas). Having community displays of such is in no way violating a separation of church and state. I am happy to hear that the majority of rational and sane people are fighting back with in several places this year.

Bible studies are well within the boundaries of a library. The bible is a book.

Then you prove my point. If we allow Christian groups to hold Bible studies in community libraries, then you can't claim use of a public space is a violation of the wall of separation.

 

[Cephus]

So how do you account for it being legal to rent civic centers to churches or libraries allowing church groups to use their facilities for bible studies? Just because it is public space doesn't mean there is some kind of directive that it has to be all inclusive all the time. Good luck trying to show precedent that says otherwise.

Because those are places that are actually intended for rental to anyone who wants to use them. The front lawn is not such a place. Now if you want the front lawn to become available for rental, be prepared for anyone from the neo-Nazis and the KKK to the wacky tin-foil-hat nutcases to use it as such, I doubt you'd find very many people willing to see it used to espouse some of the worst opinions out there on public land.

Isn't it just easier to let a public space remain free of personal opinions?

 

[jallman]

Isn't it just easier to let a public space remain free of personal opinions?

Certainly. Because God forbid a community make an expression for fear of offending the one person who would make a federal case out of it. :roll:

 

[Cephus]

Certainly. Because God forbid a community make an expression for fear of offending the one person who would make a federal case out of it. :roll:

Interesting how the federal cases all come down in the favor of the person who was offended though, isn't it? :lol:

 

[jallman]

Interesting how the federal cases all come down in the favor of the person who was offended though, isn't it? :lol:

One could argue that the reason is that the ACLU has been pretty unopposed in their advocacy of these cases.

Now that the ACLU is being opposed, the cases aren't so guaranteed. Look at Fort Collins for just one recent example.

 

[disneydude]

There are plenty of private spaces in every community (churches, businesses, etc) where religious holiday displays can be placed without them having to be placed in public parks/civic centers.

The fact that there are religious "political" groups actively seeking to place displays in the public arena should tell anyone what their true agenda is....its not religious....its political.

 

[jallman]

There are plenty of private spaces in every community (churches, businesses, etc) where religious holiday displays can be placed without them having to be placed in public parks/civic centers.

The fact that there are religious "political" groups actively seeking to place displays in the public arena should tell anyone what their true agenda is....its not religious....its political.

It couldn't be that a community is preserving traditions that built the history of that community? Nah, it couldn't ever be that...:roll:

 

[disneydude]

It couldn't be that a community is preserving traditions that built the history of that community? Nah, it couldn't ever be that...:roll:

How does requiring religious displays be placed on a church ground or private business ground effect the traditions/history of the community? It doesn't....it doesn't stop the celebration at all....it simply requires that it take place within the bounds of the constitution.

Look....I have a nativity scene that I place in front of my house every holiday season....I also have non-religious displays in my yard.....I don't need to force my beliefs into the public arena to promote my religious beliefs....to me...that would only be politicizing it.

It reminds me of what Christ said of those who feel the need to Pray in public....as opposed to speaking to the father in the privacy of their own sanctuary.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

It couldn't be that a community is preserving traditions that built the history of that community? Nah, it couldn't ever be that...:roll:

I can't see where one needs to have some big tacky plastic nativity scene on the courthouse lawn with a rather european looking baby Jesus depicted to "preserve traditions that built the history of that community".

 

[disneydude]

I can't see where one needs to have some big tacky plastic nativity scene on the courthouse lawn with a rather european looking baby Jesus depicted to "preserve traditions that built the history of that community".

Yeah.....let us put the big tacky plastic nativity scenes in our yards!.....(although I love my tacky plastic nativity scene - its probably over 50 years old (bought it at a yard sale 15 years ago).....but I draw the line at those inflatable tacky things!!!!