How is immigration a controversial subject?

[ACR]

I see people all the time justifying the means with the end result. Can anyone not see the fallaciousness with this?

What is the argument about immigration, honestly? Do they call them "ILLEGAL" aliens for anything at all? They are illegal to be on American soil. This is due to reasons which were figured out by human kind thousands of years ago.

A nation is a group of people who live in a large community. I, and you, (if American) live in this community. There are people coming into our community without registering with us and checking if it's okay. I presume you expect people to knock at your door before walking in, yes?

Where is the argument about immigration??????????????????????????????

1. Build a REAL border. --Fences, armed soldiers, .50 Turrets, whatever.
2. Pass a law. Anyone attempting to cross the border without registering with the American people will be stopped, and shot if need be.
3. Pick up all current illegal aliens and drop them off at the border of their nation.
4. Create a database of all current, past, and future Illegal aliens.
5. Pass a law stating anyone who ever crosses the American border illegally will never be granted -ANY- type of visitation and/or staying rights.
6. Pass another law stating anyone giving refuge, or employing illegals will be fined harshly.

What is wrong with this?

 

[Cold Highway]

Its controversial on how which side wants to fix the problem.

1. Some want to cut immigration entirely and kick all the illegals out
2. Some want to give citizenship to those who have been here and worked hard
3. Some wish to loosen the immigration process so those that want to come here can
4. Some wish to target the employers of illegal immigrants that cause the problem
5. Some idiots use this to spread hate like the Neo-Nazi's and the KKK

etc

Me personally I want the fence built, the illegals kicked out, and loosen the rules on immigration for those that want to come in the legal way.

 

[Sergeant Stinger1]

I see people all the time justifying the means with the end result. Can anyone not see the fallaciousness with this?

What is the argument about immigration, honestly? Do they call them "ILLEGAL" aliens for anything at all? They are illegal to be on American soil. This is due to reasons which were figured out by human kind thousands of years ago.

A nation is a group of people who live in a large community. I, and you, (if American) live in this community. There are people coming into our community without registering with us and checking if it's okay. I presume you expect people to knock at your door before walking in, yes?

Where is the argument about immigration??????????????????????????????

1. Build a REAL border. --Fences, armed soldiers, .50 Turrets, whatever.
2. Pass a law. Anyone attempting to cross the border without registering with the American people will be stopped, and shot if need be.
3. Pick up all current illegal aliens and drop them off at the border of their nation.
4. Create a database of all current, past, and future Illegal aliens.
5. Pass a law stating anyone who ever crosses the American border illegally will never be granted -ANY- type of visitation and/or staying rights.
6. Pass another law stating anyone giving refuge, or employing illegals will be fined harshly.

What is wrong with this?

---
Whats wrong with this??? Well i'll tell you whats wrong with this!!!
*************N*O*T*H*I*N*G*************

 

[jfuh]

Its controversial on how which side wants to fix the problem.

1. Some want to cut immigration entirely and kick all the illegals out
2. Some want to give citizenship to those who have been here and worked hard
3. Some wish to loosen the immigration process so those that want to come here can
4. Some wish to target the employers of illegal immigrants that cause the problem
5. Some idiots use this to spread hate like the Neo-Nazi's and the KKK

etc

Me personally I want the fence built, the illegals kicked out, and loosen the rules on immigration for those that want to come in the legal way.

Easier said then done. How do you kick out illegals? How much are you willing to spend on doing so?

 

[ACR]

Well from what I've heard, the U.S. Population right now stands at just over 300 million. The illegals account for 12 million.

300 Vs. 12 is a pretty easy battle... Err, actually I forgot to subtract all the bleeding hearts and the labor whores...

280 vs. 12. If 1 out of every 23 Americans report and help get an immigrant deported, we win.

I'd be willing to spend whatever was necessary coupled with tons of volunteer work from vigilant, patriotic Americans. When something is necessary, you don't ask how much it costs. You do want to, however... debate the issue and try to figure out the most efficient and best way to arrive at the solution however.

 

[jfuh]

Well from what I've heard, the U.S. Population right now stands at just over 300 million. The illegals account for 12 million.

300 Vs. 12 is a pretty easy battle... Err, actually I forgot to subtract all the bleeding hearts and the labor whores...

280 vs. 12. If 1 out of every 23 Americans report and help get an immigrant deported, we win.

I'd be willing to spend whatever was necessary coupled with tons of volunteer work from vigilant, patriotic Americans. When something is necessary, you don't ask how much it costs. You do want to, however... debate the issue and try to figure out the most efficient and best way to arrive at the solution however.

Who are you battling against? Who are you being challenged by? Win what?
Well as you're so patriotic and vigilant please by all means 13billion dollars.

 

[Cephus]

Easier said then done.

For those who really don't want to do anything, sure.

How do you kick out illegals?

Deport the ones you catch, take away the jobs and social services from the rest and they'll leave on their own.

How much are you willing to spend on doing so?

As much as it takes, but it really won't take much, we can easily make them want to leave on their own and save a crapload of money in the process.

 

[jfuh]

For those who really don't want to do anything, sure.

What are you willing to do?

Deport the ones you catch, take away the jobs and social services from the rest and they'll leave on their own.

How do you catch them? Deportation costs money; who's going to foot the bill for the deportation of 12 million? you do realize that social services are far from any reason that they come here right? Job's yes no question about it but how? Are you going to go to a resteraunt and ask everyone there for their papers? Will you be doing an instant check on their SS# to see whether or not they are whom the claim they are? We're talking about 12 million here give me a realistic way as opposed to "it's simple because it's anything but simple. Were it simple it would've been resolved ages ago.

As much as it takes, but it really won't take much, we can easily make them want to leave on their own and save a crapload of money in the process.

How are you going to "easily" make them leave on their own?

 

[Cephus]

How do you catch them? Deportation costs money; who's going to foot the bill for the deportation of 12 million? you do realize that social services are far from any reason that they come here right? Job's yes no question about it but how? Are you going to go to a resteraunt and ask everyone there for their papers? Will you be doing an instant check on their SS# to see whether or not they are whom the claim they are? We're talking about 12 million here give me a realistic way as opposed to "it's simple because it's anything but simple. Were it simple it would've been resolved ages ago.

It hasn't been resolved because neither party wants it to be resolved. The Republicans want cheap labor for their big business buddies and the Democrats want a ready supply of voters when the anchor babies turn 18. If the government was willing to enforce the existing laws, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now.

 

[SFLRN]

The usual reason any issue is controversial is either A. a difference in values, B. A belief that certain means will better achieve shared values than other means. In this case, many people might value having fewer illegal immigrants; however, they disagree on how exactly to accomplish this. Some believe that flexible legal border policies will function like a flexible market, others find a command style system to be more likely to yield desirable outcomes. In short, the conflict is either in philosophy or solvency for controversial issues. In the case of illegal immigrantion, it is usually an issue of means/solvency.

 

[Cephus]

In the meantime though, lots of innocents get hurt. A couple days ago, my mother and a friend were broadsided by an illegal alien that totalled her brand new car. The illegal's truck, complete with Mexican plates, was destroyed in the crash, the illegal got out and ran away to avoid being caught by the police. Now my mother is out her new car, she's got to fight with her insurance to get it replaced (right now they don't want to replace it, they want to find a similar used car even though hers was less than 2 months old) and her rates go through the roof.

**** illegals.

 

[jfuh]

It hasn't been resolved because neither party wants it to be resolved. The Republicans want cheap labor for their big business buddies and the Democrats want a ready supply of voters when the anchor babies turn 18. If the government was willing to enforce the existing laws, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now.

I don't disagree both want the larger voting block for their own party interests rather than national interests.
But that doesn't answer the question of how you will be catching them - in otherwords where that money can will come from. Though I have a suggestion. There's a huge huge huge waste of money right now where if we stop wasting would easily pay for all these fees. A waste that is costing us 330 million dollars a day and has cost us already 200 billion dollars.

 

[jfuh]

In the meantime though, lots of innocents get hurt. A couple days ago, my mother and a friend were broadsided by an illegal alien that totalled her brand new car. The illegal's truck, complete with Mexican plates, was destroyed in the crash, the illegal got out and ran away to avoid being caught by the police. Now my mother is out her new car, she's got to fight with her insurance to get it replaced (right now they don't want to replace it, they want to find a similar used car even though hers was less than 2 months old) and her rates go through the roof.

**** illegals.

Your argument and displeasure rests not with illegal immigration, but rather with the idiot himself that had caused said financial loss to your situation as well as the insurance company that's trying to get out of paying.

 

[Cephus]

I don't disagree both want the larger voting block for their own party interests rather than national interests.
But that doesn't answer the question of how you will be catching them - in otherwords where that money can will come from. Though I have a suggestion. There's a huge huge huge waste of money right now where if we stop wasting would easily pay for all these fees. A waste that is costing us 330 million dollars a day and has cost us already 200 billion dollars.

I agree with you there, but just getting rid of them is going to save a ton of money that we're already wasting on social services, education and lost medical revenue, it'll more than pay for itself in the long run, even without the money we'd get from getting the hell out of Iraq.

 

[Cephus]

Your argument and displeasure rests not with illegal immigration, but rather with the idiot himself that had caused said financial loss to your situation as well as the insurance company that's trying to get out of paying.

Bullshit. Had the idiot not been here, the idiot could not have caused the problem. This kind of thing is rampant.

 

[ACR]

I understand your points, but I can't justify them for not taking harsh, swift action against illegals NOW. The cost should not matter, just as the cost to find and kill enemies should not be a deterrent to doing so.

If we were to stop the flow of illegals inside the country, then the number of illegals inside the country (In theory) would dwindle day by day. Of course we can't expect the American people to stand up and hit the streets looking for illegals. Can we expect someone like myself, who sees illegals on a weekly basis to call in a hot-line that would result in immediate local investigation? Absolutely.

Here's is an example of the investigation.
Me: (Calls hotline). Hi, I have reason to believe that company X is employing around 10 illegals.
ICE: Ok, we will check it out.

Two ICE members hop in their little ICE vehicle and drive to this location. They introduce theirselves and why they are there. The employer is asked if he/she can produce papers of the suspect illegals status. If they employer cannot prove that the suspect illegals are legally here, he is hit with a very large fine, right there. Just like a speeding ticket. Then the ICE would go to each suspect illegal and talk to them. If they are able to produce paperwork which states they are legal, they are left. If not, they are cuffed and thrown in the back of the car.

12,000,000 - 10 = 11,999,990.

That wouldn't cost much at all. We'll need more ICE for the time being, but the numbers would only need to be large for the time being. Once a bus full of illegals at X holding location are processed, they are shipped via bus to the border of Mexico and dropped off. With enough time, I'm positive 99% of the current illegals would be deported, and with no more coming in with a REAL border and new laws, problem solved.

 

[Cold Highway]

I understand your points, but I can't justify them for not taking harsh, swift action against illegals NOW. The cost should not matter, just as the cost to find and kill enemies should not be a deterrent to doing so.

Its quite simply why neither Republicans or Democrats want anything done on this issue. The Republican want to create a slave class for their business buddies and the Democrats want the votes.

 

[Thorgasm]

In the meantime though, lots of innocents get hurt. A couple days ago, my mother and a friend were broadsided by an illegal alien that totalled her brand new car. The illegal's truck, complete with Mexican plates, was destroyed in the crash, the illegal got out and ran away to avoid being caught by the police. Now my mother is out her new car, she's got to fight with her insurance to get it replaced (right now they don't want to replace it, they want to find a similar used car even though hers was less than 2 months old) and her rates go through the roof.

**** illegals.

**** the insurance companies too!

 

[Thorgasm]

Bullshit. Had the idiot not been here, the idiot could not have caused the problem. This kind of thing is rampant.

It sounds like the insurance company would still be screwing your mother even if it was an American citizen who totaled her car. What company insures your mother so we know not to use them?

 

[Cephus]

It sounds like the insurance company would still be screwing your mother even if it was an American citizen who totaled her car. What company insures your mother so we know not to use them?

State Farm.

And even if that were the case, she could sue the other driver and recoup the expense that way, but now... hell, the little ******* is hiding under a bridge somewhere and will get away with it entirely.

 

[jfuh]

I agree with you there, but just getting rid of them is going to save a ton of money that we're already wasting on social services, education and lost medical revenue, it'll more than pay for itself in the long run, even without the money we'd get from getting the hell out of Iraq.

That is if you can figure first off how much social services are being "wasted" on these people to begin with - to which I seriously doubt you can figure positively how much is. To which the secondary response would be would it be ok with you then if they were legal immigrants that were getting these social services - by which I'm willing to bet a hundred bucks that says even if they were legal you'd still be dissatisfied with to which I charge then that your issue is with social services itself rather than the immigration issue.

 

[jfuh]

Bullshit. Had the idiot not been here, the idiot could not have caused the problem. This kind of thing is rampant.

And of course native citizens never cause the problems here? WE've never heard of citizens involved with hit and run incidents?
The point is he was here and decided to deal with it in an irresponsible way. It's unfortunate but either way your insurance company would still be running away from footing the bills.

 

[Cephus]

To which the secondary response would be would it be ok with you then if they were legal immigrants that were getting these social services - by which I'm willing to bet a hundred bucks that says even if they were legal you'd still be dissatisfied with to which I charge then that your issue is with social services itself rather than the immigration issue.

If they're legal citizens of the United States, that's fine with me. Let me know when you're ready to send that check, I'll tell you where I want it sent.

 

[bhkad]

Its controversial on how which side wants to fix the problem.

1. Some want to cut immigration entirely and kick all the illegals out
2. Some want to give citizenship to those who have been here and worked hard
3. Some wish to loosen the immigration process so those that want to come here can
4. Some wish to target the employers of illegal immigrants that cause the problem
5. Some idiots use this to spread hate like the Neo-Nazi's and the KKK

etc

Me personally I want the fence built, the illegals kicked out, and loosen the rules on immigration for those that want to come in the legal way.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ[/YOUTUBE]

Before you advocate loosening the rules to let more immigrants in legally, take a look at this short video and then tell us what you think.

 

[jfuh]

If they're legal citizens of the United States, that's fine with me. Let me know when you're ready to send that check, I'll tell you where I want it sent.

So as long as the immigrant is legal to this country it's fine by you that they then leech off the system? I have a hard time believing that based on what you have stated about the system before.