How is China's government not fascist? (1 Viewer)

[Craig234]

They are exactly fascist.

From the dictionary: "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"

They exalt their nation *incredibly* within their country. They claim constantly that they are they center of the world, the leading civilization with 5000 years, superior to every other country.

They do the same for race. They are extremely racist about the more than 90% Han Chinese. The other minorities in their country are treated like zoo animals, forced to give up any racial or cultural identity to become like the Han, forced to dress up and dance for tourists and on tv. They'd make the KKK blush.

They have the most centralized autocratic government in the history of the world, if you include North Korea with them who they are very much like. Of course they are headed by a dictatorial leader, who forces the country to memorize his 'thoughts by Xi' just like Mao's little red book. Severe economic and social regimentation is a big understatement. Forcible suppression of opposition - say one wrong thing, go to jail.

They're not only fascist, it's hard to argue they're not the most fascist ever - at least matching the Nazis. But they try to hide a lot of it from the outside world, with a massive propaganda operation that tries to force the world not to say anything they don't like, where we already see US companies and product catering to their demands.

 

[aociswundumho]

They are exactly fascist.

From the dictionary: "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"

They exalt their nation *incredibly* within their country. They claim constantly that they are they center of the world, the leading civilization with 5000 years, superior to every other country.

They do the same for race. They are extremely racist about the more than 90% Han Chinese. The other minorities in their country are treated like zoo animals, forced to give up any racial or cultural identity to become like the Han, forced to dress up and dance for tourists and on tv. They'd make the KKK blush.

They have the most centralized autocratic government in the history of the world, if you include North Korea with them who they are very much like. Of course they are headed by a dictatorial leader, who forces the country to memorize his 'thoughts by Xi' just like Mao's little red book. Severe economic and social regimentation is a big understatement. Forcible suppression of opposition - say one wrong thing, go to jail.

They're not only fascist, it's hard to argue they're not the most fascist ever - at least matching the Nazis. But they try to hide a lot of it from the outside world, with a massive propaganda operation that tries to force the world not to say anything they don't like, where we already see US companies and product catering to their demands.

Hey everyone, Craig has finally come to understand that fascism is just another form of socialism.

 

[Slartibartfast]

The Chinese government pivoted from socialism to fascism when they came up with their majority state ownership of firms scheme and started their internal genocides.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

They are exactly fascist.

From the dictionary: "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"

They exalt their nation *incredibly* within their country. They claim constantly that they are they center of the world, the leading civilization with 5000 years, superior to every other country.

They do the same for race. They are extremely racist about the more than 90% Han Chinese. The other minorities in their country are treated like zoo animals, forced to give up any racial or cultural identity to become like the Han, forced to dress up and dance for tourists and on tv. They'd make the KKK blush.

They have the most centralized autocratic government in the history of the world, if you include North Korea with them who they are very much like. Of course they are headed by a dictatorial leader, who forces the country to memorize his 'thoughts by Xi' just like Mao's little red book. Severe economic and social regimentation is a big understatement. Forcible suppression of opposition - say one wrong thing, go to jail.

They're not only fascist, it's hard to argue they're not the most fascist ever - at least matching the Nazis. But they try to hide a lot of it from the outside world, with a massive propaganda operation that tries to force the world not to say anything they don't like, where we already see US companies and product catering to their demands.

Who said it wasn't?

 

[Gateman_Wen]

Hey everyone, Craig has finally come to understand that fascism is just another form of socialism.

It's a fascist dictatorship. It has absolutely nothing to do with socialism at this point.

 

[aociswundumho]

The Chinese government pivoted from socialism to fascism when they came up with their majority state ownership of firms scheme and started their internal genocides.

Yes, that's just so unlike what communist countries do, lol.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Yes, that's just so unlike what communist countries do, lol.

Are we talking about socialism or communism?

Communism has had massive problems with killing its population but also zero instances of using state capitalist policies.

 

[joluoto]

Let's go through the 14 characteristics of Fascism and see how many the Chinese government scores:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Yeah, I think they score this one.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Oh they definitely score this one

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
I don't think they are doing this right now to a large extent, they have done so in the past, so I might give them for that, but we're scoring them for their behaviour right now, right? So I guess I can't give them this score.

4. Supremacy of the Military
They do score this one

5. Rampant Sexism
They used to be extremely sexist, but I don't know if they are anymore. Simply have not enough information on this, so I will not score it for now, fill in if you know more about the subject.

6. Controlled Mass Media
Yep

7. Obsession with National Security
I don't think they are obsessing over this right now, so I won't score this one.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
Nope, since they are anti-religious

9. Corporate Power is Protected
Actually yes, they do score this one, they are protecting their rich corporate class, and supports a ruthless capitalist system.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed
Yep, definitely score this one.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Hard, they definitely suppress all art that is in any way anti-regime, but they don't hold a general disdain for intellectualism nor the arts, gonna say no.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
They have capital punishment, and you wouldn't have it if you aren't obsessed with it, because it's killing people, so Yes.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Yep

14. Fraudulent Elections
Elections? I guess they pretend to have them, so Yes.

So I score them 9 out of 14 on the Fascist scale.

 

[aociswundumho]

Are we talking about socialism or communism?

Communism has had massive problems with killing its population but also zero instances of using state capitalist policies.

Capitalism is private property in the means of production. Therefore the term state capitalism means "public private property in the means of production", which is incoherent.

 

[Craig234]

Who said it wasn't?

It's never or rarely referred to as fascist. It should be.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Capitalism is private property in the means of production. Therefore the term state capitalism means "public private property in the means of production", which is incoherent.

We live in a world where lines are blurred all the time. That's just the way it is, however the state getting involved in market economies does not automatically change capitalism to socialism because you still have things like stocks, bonds, etc, which are all capitalistic tools.

 

[Craig234]

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
I don't think they are doing this right now to a large extent, they have done so in the past, so I might give them for that, but we're scoring them for their behaviour right now, right? So I guess I can't give them this score.

They are absolutely doing that MASSIVELY. The government takes responsibility for nothing and blames foreigners for pretty much everything, the US most of all.

5. Rampant Sexism
They used to be extremely sexist, but I don't know if they are anymore. Simply have not enough information on this, so I will not score it for now, fill in if you know more about the subject.

They still are. It's normal for men beating their partners to have police say 'that's a domestic dispute, don't get involved'. A youtuber I suggest, serpentza, tells a story how his former boss raped hundreds of his employees systematically.

7. Obsession with National Security
I don't think they are obsessing over this right now, so I won't score this one.

They absolutely are. Suggesting they aren't is like saying Putin isn't concerned about NATO.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
Nope, since they are anti-religious

Nope. While they previously banned religion - and that is 'intertwined' - now they allow it, but they control it. For example, they have catholic churches - with no connection to the Pope, run by the government.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Hard, they definitely suppress all art that is in any way anti-regime, but they don't hold a general disdain for intellectualism nor the arts, gonna say no.

Of course it was worse in their history - they have a generation that went uneducated as they killed teachers - but they are still very anti-intellectual and anti-arts, supporting only practical education that makes the country money, and pro-government propaganda. They destroy any art that is not pro-government and likely jail the artist. There is no tolerance for 'honest' scholars.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
They have capital punishment, and you wouldn't have it if you aren't obsessed with it, because it's killing people, so Yes.

That is such an understatement. They essentially jail people constantly for anything they want. Anyone doing anything the government doesn't like is in constant fear of jail.

So I score them 9 out of 14 on the Fascist scale.

Not only a 14 out of 14, but a strong 14.

If you have any doubts about any of these, check out the 'serpentza' channel; I can link you videos for some, others I see dozens of examples of so it's not easy to link one video.

 

[Jay59]

They are exactly fascist.

From the dictionary: "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"

Dreadful definition of fascism. From that, you would conclude that Russia is fascist.

 

[Craig234]

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
I don't think they are doing this right now to a large extent, they have done so in the past, so I might give them for that, but we're scoring them for their behaviour right now, right? So I guess I can't give them this score.

A small sample:

The complete guide to China’s propaganda videos blaming the West for almost everything

The videos say the West, especially the US, is to blame for everything from inciting separatism to stealing South China Sea territory.

qz.com

 

[aociswundumho]

We live in a world where lines are blurred all the time. That's just the way it is, however the state getting involved in market economies does not automatically change capitalism to socialism because you still have things like stocks, bonds, etc, which are all capitalistic tools.

That's right, it's a matter of degree. All economies are mixed economies. Even Lenin allowed some capitalism, and there are black and gray markets functioning in NK, but the USSR was clearly socialist, and the term "state capitalism" is still incoherent.

 

[aociswundumho]

Let's go through the 14 characteristics of Fascism and see how many the Chinese government scores:

A much more accurate way to define fascism is to look what the man who invented fascism did during his reign.

 

[Slartibartfast]

That's right, it's a matter of degree. All economies are mixed economies. Even Lenin allowed some capitalism, and there are black and gray markets functioning in NK, but the USSR was clearly socialist, and the term "state capitalism" is still incoherent.

You were right there too. You were going with the mixed market then and then boom, then boom you went off the deep end in the last 8 words. The only other issue that you keep moving back and forth from socialist and communist as if they were the same concept.

 

[joluoto]

A much more accurate way to define fascism is to look what the man who invented fascism did during his reign.

Those points are based on what Mussolini's and Hitler's regimes were like.

 

[aociswundumho]

You were right there too. You were going with the mixed market then and then boom, then boom you went off the deep end in the last 8 words. The only other issue that you keep moving back and forth from socialist and communist as if they were the same concept.

So did Marx:

Marx used many terms to refer to a post-capitalist society—positive humanism, socialism, Communism, realm of free individuality, free association of producers, etc. He used these terms completely interchangeably. The notion that “socialism” and “Communism” are distinct historical stages is alien to his work and only entered the lexicon of Marxism after his death.

Marx’s Concept of Socialism

"Marx’s Concept of Socialism" published on by Oxford University Press.

www.oxfordhandbooks.com

and

The socialist mode of production, also referred to as the communist mode of production, the lower-stage of communism or simply socialism as Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels used the terms communism and socialism interchangeably,

Socialist mode of production - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

It's never or rarely referred to as fascist. It should be.

It is fascist in nature and no longer communist

 

[Slartibartfast]

So did Marx:



and

You are relying on definitions from nearly 200 years ago. Here is something more up to date. In this article you will notice that the word socialism has a pretty wide variety of definitions and meanings that evolved over time.

Communism vs. Socialism: What’s the Difference?

Communism and socialism are political and economic systems that are historically related but often confused with each other. Here’s how they compare.

www.investopedia.com

 

[Antiwar]

Hey everyone, Craig has finally come to understand that fascism is just another form of socialism.

"Hey everyone," a right-libertarian still doesn't understand that nearly every modern economy is a mixed economy (with one of the main two ingredients being socialism).

 

[Antiwar]

Since China has been deemed a fascist nation, then shouldn't the USG not sell bonds(?) (essentially funding US militarism) and other stuff to, nor buy, nor move manufacturing, etc ... to China? In fewer words: Why's the US a partner with "fascist" China?

 

[Antiwar]

Let's go through the 14 characteristics of Fascism and see how many the Chinese government scores:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Yeah, I think they score this one.

...

So I score them 9 out of 14 on the Fascist scale.

Now do the same for the USG.

 

[aociswundumho]

Those points are based on what Mussolini's and Hitler's regimes were like.

You need to stop getting your information from some idiot leftist on youtube.

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

Socialists are often nationalists. Stalin was a nationalist. The socialist who wrote the pledge of allegiance was a nationalist. The father of the progressive movement, Teddy Roosevelt was a nationalist. Mussolini was a life-long socialist who became a nationalist.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

Just like every communist country.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

This is very common in communist countries, where they scapegoat the bourgeoisie, Kulaks, landlords, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military

Very common in communist countries. Giant red flags, military parades. Stalin and Mao believed in the supremacy of the military.

5. Rampant Sexism

This exists in all collectivist ideologies.

6. Controlled Mass Media

Just like every communist country.

7. Obsession with National Security

Just like every communist country.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined

Not in either fascist states nor communist states.

9. Corporate Power is Protected

No, corporate power was not protected. The corporations were private in name only and controlled by the state. Hitler was smart enough to understand that in many cases, the state was better off controlling production instead of having outright state ownership. He learned this from observing the disaster created by the Bolsheviks in Russia. However there was still a lot of nationalization under both Hitler and Mussolini.


10. Labor Power is Suppressed

Unions don't work for either ideology, because without the incentive to produce, you have to use force, therefore strikes are unacceptable. Hitler supported unions, that's why he nationalized them. Lenin had no problem crushing unions.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

More so in communist countries.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment

Just like every communist country.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

Just like every communist country.

14. Fraudulent Elections

Just like every communist country.