How is abortion anyone's business or concern?

[Smallishbear]

Sigh! I already said that you did not state you wanted two doctors. I also pointed out that you did suggest the idea of two doctors.

So when you claimed:

"I made no false statements. " That was a lie?

"As well you contradict yourself when you say we trust doctors and then claim you need there to be two doctors to make a choice on abortion. " - Soylentgreen

Two opposed statements that you attributed to me. Both cannot be true. Thus at least one is false. Thus when you stated that you'd made no false statements, that must be a lie. Claim, evidence, warrant. Proof.

Still waiting for you to own up, retract, and apologize for the lies.

And you're still running.

 

[Smallishbear]

... you are denying it.

I denied what I said? Nope. That's yet ANOTHER lie. I'm denying your LIES about what I said, but I'm not denying what I actually said.

Is lying like this just a reflex for you when you're caught / can't make an argument?

Still waiting for you to show me you can discuss like an adult by owning up to your false statements and lies and stopping yourself from making more. Until then, why would I further engage you as you could just continue to lie about what I've said.

 

[soylentgreen]

I denied what I said? Nope. That's yet ANOTHER lie. I'm denying your LIES about what I said, but I'm not denying what I actually said.

Is lying like this just a reflex for you when you're caught / can't make an argument?

Still waiting for you to show me you can discuss like an adult by owning up to your false statements and lies and stopping yourself from making more. Until then, why would I further engage you as you could just continue to lie about what I've said.

If you do not wish to discuss why your ideas will not work then fine. i fully understand. They are impractical and will only end up with women having to lie to doctors.

But you can continue to ignore that fact and just keep on whinging.

 

[soylentgreen]

So when you claimed:

"I made no false statements. " That was a lie?

"As well you contradict yourself when you say we trust doctors and then claim you need there to be two doctors to make a choice on abortion. " - Soylentgreen

Two opposed statements that you attributed to me. Both cannot be true. Thus at least one is false. Thus when you stated that you'd made no false statements, that must be a lie. Claim, evidence, warrant. Proof.

Still waiting for you to own up, retract, and apologize for the lies.

And you're still running.

Both cannot be true so you do see the flaw in your suggesting that two doctors might be needed. Or you can continue to cherry pick out a word I used ( need) and use that to avoid answering why you suggested two doctors.
An adult conversation by you would be dealing with your suggestion rather than whinge about me using one word that you do not agree with.

 

[Smallishbear]

If you do not wish to discuss why your ideas will not work then fine. i fully understand. They are impractical and will only end up with women having to lie to doctors.

But you can continue to ignore that fact and just keep on whinging.

And yet again you run from addressing your proven lies.

You keeping trying to deflect to me. And I am more than willing to continue the discussion about my arguments… after you own up to, retract, and apologize for your PROVEN lies. Your refusal is on you.

I do enjoy the rather pathetic deflecting by you attempting to say I’m whining while you’re so cowardly you can’t face your lies.

 

[Smallishbear]

Both cannot be true so you do see the flaw in your suggesting that two doctors might be needed. Or you can continue to cherry pick out a word I used ( need) and use that to avoid answering why you suggested two doctors.
An adult conversation by you would be dealing with your suggestion rather than whinge about me using one word that you do not agree with.

So again, you continue to run from your proven lies.

Why are you tucking tail and continuing to run from your multiple proven lies?

It’s not about a word I don’t ageee with. It’s about a word that makes your statement a lie.

Why is it so hard for you to own up to them?

And again, I’ve said I’ll continue my argument once you own up to your lies… yet you’ve refused to even address them with reasoning.

Run run run run run.

(As for your both cannot be true statements, that’s actually false… but that’s gotta wait till after you own up to, retract, and apologize for your lies).

 

[soylentgreen]

And yet again you run from addressing your proven lies.

You keeping trying to deflect to me. And I am more than willing to continue the discussion about my arguments… after you own up to, retract, and apologize for your PROVEN lies. Your refusal is on you.

I do enjoy the rather pathetic deflecting by you attempting to say I’m whining while you’re so cowardly you can’t face your lies.

Now you are the one telling lies. I have given you the opportunity to discuss your suggestions. Yet all you do is deflect by keeping up this sad and pathetic attempt of yours to pretend a lie has been told.
Take up the opportunity now and discuss your suggestion of why two doctors. Either you think there is a need for such or your simply throwing out ideas to see what happens. And what happens is someone wants to know why teo doctors.

So again, you continue to run from your proven lies.

Why are you tucking tail and continuing to run from your multiple proven lies?

It’s not about a word I don’t ageee with. It’s about a word that makes your statement a lie.

Why is it so hard for you to own up to them?

And again, I’ve said I’ll continue my argument once you own up to your lies… yet you’ve refused to even address them with reasoning.

Run run run run run.

(As for your both cannot be true statements, that’s actually false… but that’s gotta wait till after you own up to, retract, and apologize for your lies).

So again basically your style of debate is to throw out a few suggestions that then give you the ability to deny that they have anything to do with you despite the fact that you did make the suggestion.

 

[Smallishbear]

Now you are the one telling lies. I have given you the opportunity to discuss your suggestions. Yet all you do is deflect by keeping up this sad and pathetic attempt of yours to pretend a lie has been told.
Take up the opportunity now and discuss your suggestion of why two doctors. Either you think there is a need for such or your simply throwing out ideas to see what happens. And what happens is someone wants to know why teo doctors.

So again basically your style of debate is to throw out a few suggestions that then give you the ability to deny that they have anything to do with you despite the fact that you did make the suggestion.

No my basic style of debate is a reasoned argument with claim, evidence, and warrant. It is also to call out and prove when someone has lied about what I’ve said.

I’ve used claim, evidence, and warrant to prove you lied multiple times. You have run from addressing those proofs with reasoning.

Logic, burden of proof both side with me.

But since you’re being so cowardly let’s do it point by point.

Did I say that there needed to be two doctors to get an abortion according to my argument? Yes or no.

Run run run run run

 

[soylentgreen]

No my basic style of debate is a reasoned argument with claim, evidence, and warrant. It is also to call out and prove when someone has lied about what I’ve said.

I’ve used claim, evidence, and warrant to prove you lied multiple times. You have run from addressing those proofs with reasoning.

Logic, burden of proof both side with me.

But since you’re being so cowardly let’s do it point by point.

Did I say that there needed to be two doctors to get an abortion according to my argument? Yes or no.

Run run run run run

You did not give a reasoned argument. All you have done is make a few suggestions that give you the ability to deny what you suggest should anyone question it.
And they are ridiculous suggestions that do nothing more than demonstrate your mistrust of women to be able to make their own decisions.

The suggestion that two doctors are needed you have not even begun to discuss because your so busy trying to deny you said any such thing.

Not to mention the incredibly stupid suggestion that mental health is an acceptable excuse for an abortion. And if you actually had the balls to discuss that I have barely touched on why that is such a foolish suggestion.
If you really want to come across as someone who can debate then stop whinging about being called out for silly ideas and start explaining why you think that nonsense makes any sense to you.

 

[Smallishbear]

You did not give a reasoned argument.

Claim without support is dismissed. Logic 101.

All you have done is make a few suggestions that give you the ability to deny what you suggest should anyone question it.

And another lie.

And they are ridiculous suggestions that do nothing more than demonstrate your mistrust of women to be able to make their own decisions.

Claim without support is dismissed. Logic 101

The suggestion that two doctors are needed you have not even begun to discuss because your so busy trying to deny you said any such thing.

You mean your proven lie that you keep running from?

Run run run run run run

Not to mention the incredibly stupid suggestion that mental health is an acceptable excuse for an abortion.

Excuse? No.

Reason. Yes.

Hey look, another lie from you.

You just can't help but lie about what I said.

And if you actually had the balls to discuss that I have barely touched on why that is such a foolish suggestion.

The guy running REPEATEDLY, tail tucked so far in between his legs like a massive coward, is trying to call me out for balls?

LOL

Wow.

Could you be any more pathetic with that projection? You really think that you lying repeatedly deserves continued furthering of the argument when you refuse to own up to / retract / apologize for those lies?

Again... wow.

If you really want to come across as someone who can debate then stop whinging about being called out for silly ideas and start explaining why you think that nonsense makes any sense to you.

If you really wanted to debate, stop lying about what I've said and own up to your lies. Yet you still run. Reasoned debate depends on honesty and addressing what was actually said. That you refuse to do those thing means it's all on YOU.

I notice you ran from my question... speaking of lack of balls...

So again:

Did I say that there needed to be two doctors to get an abortion according to my argument? Yes or no.

 

[choiceone]

I'd argue I was responding to YOU doing me a serious disservice. . . .

Why would a woman that was raped and wanted to abort the fetus wait till the 24th week to do that? . . . .

Nothing I have posted relates to any abortion before viability as I've said that my opinion is no restrictions on elective abortions up until viability then restrictions with several exceptions. . . .

Sorry if you think I did you a disservice. I did read all your posts from beginning to end. But since you didn't keep repeating "after viability," it was hard for me to understand that all the posts came with that modifier.

I have virtually nothing to say in opposition to you, as I respect all people who think that limits need to be in place after that and still make exceptions for the life and health of the woman. I completely accept your view on rape pregnancies after the 24th week.

The only case I'd probably bring up is that of a seriously defective fetal twin threatening the life of the healthy fetal twin after viability.

 

[Smallishbear]

Sorry if you think I did you a disservice. I did read all your posts from beginning to end. But since you didn't keep repeating "after viability," it was hard for me to understand that all the posts came with that modifier.

I have virtually nothing to say in opposition to you, as I respect all people who think that limits need to be in place after that and still make exceptions for the life and health of the woman. I completely accept your view on rape pregnancies after the 24th week.

The only case I'd probably bring up is that of a seriously defective fetal twin threatening the life of the healthy fetal twin after viability.

Fair enough. Sorry I came off as an ahole... this board tends to have a lot of posters that like to lie about what someone said (not you).

For the twin, I would put that under fetal viability (in my exemptions) but I don't know if everyone would think of it that way, but absolutely that would be a common sense exception.

That would a be horrible decision for any mother to make, and I couldn't (and no one should) fault her for whichever way she took that decision.

 

[soylentgreen]

Claim without support is dismissed. Logic 101.



And another lie.


Claim without support is dismissed. Logic 101



You mean your proven lie that you keep running from?

Run run run run run run



Excuse? No.

Reason. Yes.

Hey look, another lie from you.

You just can't help but lie about what I said.



The guy running REPEATEDLY, tail tucked so far in between his legs like a massive coward, is trying to call me out for balls?

LOL

Wow.

Could you be any more pathetic with that projection? You really think that you lying repeatedly deserves continued furthering of the argument when you refuse to own up to / retract / apologize for those lies?

Again... wow.


If you really wanted to debate, stop lying about what I've said and own up to your lies. Yet you still run. Reasoned debate depends on honesty and addressing what was actually said. That you refuse to do those thing means it's all on YOU.

I notice you ran from my question... speaking of lack of balls...

So again:

Did I say that there needed to be two doctors to get an abortion according to my argument? Yes or no.

So again your basic argument is to suggest things about how abortion should be done and then find any reason to whinge if anyone questions your poorly based reasons.

Giving you plenty of opportunities to actually explain your poor thinking but obvioudsly the idea of having to explain yourself is a step to far.

Your opinion on there being two doctors is as a big a joke as your opinion that mental health is a good reason for an abortion.
But you keep ignoring that and just complain it would seem that is all you are good for.

 

[Smallishbear]

So again your basic argument is to suggest things about how abortion should be done and then find any reason to whinge if anyone questions your poorly based reasons.

Giving you plenty of opportunities to actually explain your poor thinking but obvioudsly the idea of having to explain yourself is a step to far.

Your opinion on there being two doctors is as a big a joke as your opinion that mental health is a good reason for an abortion.
But you keep ignoring that and just complain it would seem that is all you are good for.

And again you ran from your PROVEN lies and ran from the question.

Given you plenty of opportunities to own up to, retract, and apologize for your lies. But obviously being honest and dealing with them is a step too far.

Is lying all you’re good for?

(See what I did there. The difference being mine is based on truth while yours is not).

FYI I’m more than willing to explain why I put the two doctors thing in my post… once you own up to, retract, and apologize for your lies.

 

[Smallishbear]

Again, Soylent…

Did I say that there needed to be two doctors to get an abortion according to my argument? Yes or no.

Your silence is telling.

 

[choiceone]

Fair enough. Sorry I came off as an ahole... this board tends to have a lot of posters that like to lie about what someone said (not you).

For the twin, I would put that under fetal viability (in my exemptions) but I don't know if everyone would think of it that way, but absolutely that would be a common sense exception.

That would a be horrible decision for any mother to make, and I couldn't (and no one should) fault her for whichever way she took that decision.

Thanks for apologizing. Re the twin - this problem actually happened in Texas. The problem, of course, is that when they made their law, they forgot to include this common sense exception, both to save the fetal twin and to stop the growth of a fatally deformed fetus rather than waiting till it was seriously threatening the woman's life.

But this is one reason I take the view that I do, that the legislators shouldn't be making the decisions, because they aren't medical professionals and could fail to include everything, given how many things can go wrong.

 

[soylentgreen]

And again you ran from your PROVEN lies and ran from the question.

Given you plenty of opportunities to own up to, retract, and apologize for your lies. But obviously being honest and dealing with them is a step too far.

Is lying all you’re good for?

(See what I did there. The difference being mine is based on truth while yours is not).

FYI I’m more than willing to explain why I put the two doctors thing in my post… once you own up to, retract, and apologize for your lies.

I owe you no apology for what is nothing more than your weak and pathetic excuse to not have to explain yourself.
And again I give you the opportunity to explain why you think two doctors might be needed and why you think the shitty idea of mental health is some kind of reason to allow an abortion.
But it seems you cannot so the best you can do is whinge.

If you were really interested in logic and reasoning you would clear this up but because you lack in real logic or reasoning to back you the best you can do is whinge.

 

[Smallishbear]

I owe you no apology for what is nothing more than your weak and pathetic excuse to not have to explain yourself.
And again I give you the opportunity to explain why you think two doctors might be needed and why you think the shitty idea of mental health is some kind of reason to allow an abortion.
But it seems you cannot so the best you can do is whinge.

If you were really interested in logic and reasoning you would clear this up but because you lack in real logic or reasoning to back you the best you can do is whinge.

You don’t owe me an apology for repeatedly lying about what I’ve said?

Yikes.

Notice you ran from the question yet again. Your silence is telling.

There is very little, if any, logical purpose in trying to have a reasoned debate with someone who repeatedly lies about what was argued / said.

Again, as I have repeatedly stated and you continue to run from, when you show you can have a reasoned adult conversation and own up to your lies and false statements, I am more than willing to get further into my reasoning.

The most telling part is you can’t bring yourself to answer the question because it traps you yet again. I don’t like it when people lie about what I’ve said. And when a person, you, can own up to it after it’s been proven multiple times, not a lot of reason for me to placate your need to run from dealing with.

 

[Smallishbear]

Thanks for apologizing. Re the twin - this problem actually happened in Texas. The problem, of course, is that when they made their law, they forgot to include this common sense exception, both to save the fetal twin and to stop the growth of a fatally deformed fetus rather than waiting till it was seriously threatening the woman's life.

But this is one reason I take the view that I do, that the legislators shouldn't be making the decisions, because they aren't medical professionals and could fail to include everything, given how many things can go wrong.

I get that position. People who work in the legislature cannot possibly experts in all the fields they have to make laws in. Why the exceptions should always error on the side more exceptions rather than strict.

 

[soylentgreen]

You don’t owe me an apology for repeatedly lying about what I’ve said?

Yikes.

Notice you ran from the question yet again. Your silence is telling.

There is very little, if any, logical purpose in trying to have a reasoned debate with someone who repeatedly lies about what was argued / said.

Again, as I have repeatedly stated and you continue to run from, when you show you can have a reasoned adult conversation and own up to your lies and false statements, I am more than willing to get further into my reasoning.

The most telling part is you can’t bring yourself to answer the question because it traps you yet again. I don’t like it when people lie about what I’ve said. And when a person, you, can own up to it after it’s been proven multiple times, not a lot of reason for me to placate your need to run from dealing with.

True there is little purpose in trying to pursue an answer out of you. You have already made it quite clear that you cannot back up what you said.
My curiosity now is did you know that they were shit suggestions when you made them or did this only occur to you when you got questioned about them..

 

[Smallishbear]

True there is little purpose in trying to pursue an answer out of you. You have already made it quite clear that you cannot back up what you said.
My curiosity now is did you know that they were shit suggestions when you made them or did this only occur to you when you got questioned about them..

And another lie from you.

Retract your lies and answer the question. Again it’s clear why you can’t.

I’m wondering at this point just how much you’re going to run from your lies and why honesty means so little to you.

Is lying and then running your normal posting style?

 

[soylentgreen]

And another lie from you.

Retract your lies and answer the question. Again it’s clear why you can’t.

I’m wondering at this point just how much you’re going to run from your lies and why honesty means so little to you.

Is lying and then running your normal posting style?

So you are sticking with the story that you suggested two doctors is a lie, despite the fact that I copied and pasted your words.
And you are using this lame excuse of calling me a liar as a way of avoiding explaining the incredibly worthless suggestion of mental health being a viable excuse for an abortion.

How pathetic that you make suggestions about abortion and then call anyone who questions them a liar.

Can you do nothing but embarress yourself with this lame form of defense for your suggestions? Can you not at least try to clear up what you did say or is just calling people who disagree with you a liar your one trick pony shot?

 

[collected]

Thanks for apologizing. Re the twin - this problem actually happened in Texas. The problem, of course, is that when they made their law, they forgot to include this common sense exception, both to save the fetal twin and to stop the growth of a fatally deformed fetus rather than waiting till it was seriously threatening the woman's life.

But this is one reason I take the view that I do, that the legislators shouldn't be making the decisions, because they aren't medical professionals and could fail to include everything, given how many things can go wrong.

Using rare examples to justify blanket policies on abortions is quite frankly bad policy. Legislators aren't medical professionals, yes, but they also aren't construction workers, pharmacists, or educators, yet they still create laws and regulations in those fields. The solution isn't to remove legislators from the decision making process entirely but to ensure they make informed decisions based on thorough consultation with medical experts. Are you going to argue that there shouldn't be laws or regulations on prescription drugs because lawmakers aren't medical professionals?

 

[Lursa]

Using rare examples to justify blanket policies on abortions is quite frankly bad policy. Legislators aren't medical professionals, yes, but they also aren't construction workers, pharmacists, or educators, yet they still create laws and regulations in those fields. The solution isn't to remove legislators from the decision making process entirely but to ensure they make informed decisions based on thorough consultation with medical experts. Are you going to argue that there shouldn't be laws or regulations on prescription drugs because lawmakers aren't medical professionals?

I agree. That's why IMO it's stupid to fight to pass legislation to restrict elective abortions of healthy viable fetuses. They are exceedingly rare to even document.

For the same reason tho, I also accept it as a compromise if required, since I dont worry about things that are almost as rare as unicorns. States had that option under RvW...did you support RvW? If not, why not?

 

[Smallishbear]

So you are sticking with the story that you suggested two doctors is a lie, despite the fact that I copied and pasted your words.

No, liar.

I'm saying that you stating that my position that two were NEEDED was a lie. My position has been one.

You continue to lie over and over and over again about my position. Why? What part of you thinks that that's ok?

Remember, you falsely stated my position. You attempted to dismiss my argument as being contradictory because you FALSELY stated my position. You denied falsely stating my position even when it was proven (and you had tacitly admitted that you falsely stated it). I've QUOTED you multiple times where you falsely stated my position. And that's just a portion of your lies.

And now you do it again. I stated two doctors was an option (and I have a reason for stating that AS an option). I stated my position was one.

Now you have yet another lie to retract... or you'll continue to run from them... and just make yourself look worse.