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How important is voting?

How important is voting?

  • Very

    Votes: 36 64.3%
  • Important, but futile

    Votes: 7 12.5%
  • Meh

    Votes: 2 3.6%
  • Not very

    Votes: 2 3.6%
  • Not at all

    Votes: 3 5.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 6 10.7%

  • Total voters
    56

earthworm

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As import, very important as voting is - informed or uninformed - A man must intelligently write his congressman often..
At least force him to acknowledge that you care.
The same can be done a local government and at school board meetings..
 

earthworm

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well what I was getting at is those who paid no income taxes, and receive from government and then vote take more from those who produce and demonize those same people.

if we get into morals, social conservatives want to use government to make people moral.Now this is scary, very disturbing..IMO, morals are not the business of government, but that of the church....and the people......NOT their government !

but progressive /liberals want to use discrimination laws to force people to be moral........discrimination laws are morality laws.

I for one am progressive, and am cool to the idea of forcing people to be moral...
And, Mr "Right", I'd suggest that you speak with one on welfare....rather than right wing hate radio....
Or, do you think that those on welfare should not be allowed to vate ??
 

MoSurveyor

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i dont think you even know what your are talking about in this situation.

and i made no statement supporting any position, i stated what was created in early american history.

your weak arguments are getting as bad as sangha's.
You don't need to make a specific statement in this thread, you've made plenty in others.
 

MoSurveyor

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yes, those that only take and give nothing in return.
So if economic upheaval that was none of your doing puts you out of a job you also lose your voting status? :lamo

those that want to use the power of government to prey on others, for their benefit.
Yes, the corporations are quite good at government manipulation. In America money talks and no one has more than them.
 

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Are you part of the solution, or are you part of the problem?

  • If you're an idiot/uninformed voter, you're part of the problem. You're lazy and/or a sucker for the politicians.
  • If you don't vote at all, because you don't care (and, hence are probably not even here at Debate Politics to read this), you're part of the problem. You're letting the politicians have their way unchallenged.
  • If you don't vote at all, because you think it's futile, you're part of the problem. I don't give a rat's arse how informed you are, or even if you're correct in your conclusions, you're still a sucker for the politicians by providing complicit approval for their actions.
  • I'd rather you be incorrect and vote (provided you're sincere and earnest in your research), than correct and not vote. You may not be correct in your conclusions, but at least you're not a sucker or an enabler. I can accept that.

Personally, I don't deny the feelings of futility, but at the very least I'm not approving and I can say, "Don't blame me, I didn't approve of what they're doing(by either my action or inaction)."

I would add that if you don't vote then you lose the right to complain about the government. That said, I think voting is becoming futile, if it wasn't already and sometimes wonder why I bother. So really, the only real reason I vote is so that I can complain. lol
 

MoSurveyor

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I would add that if you don't vote then you lose the right to complain about the government. That said, I think voting is becoming futile, if it wasn't already and sometimes wonder why I bother. So really, the only real reason I vote is so that I can complain. lol
That's certainly how I feel about national elections. The more local, of course, the more my vote counts. :)
 

radcen

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I would add that if you don't vote then you lose the right to complain about the government. That said, I think voting is becoming futile, if it wasn't already and sometimes wonder why I bother. So really, the only real reason I vote is so that I can complain. lol
I can certainly identify with this.
 

Perotista

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I would add that if you don't vote then you lose the right to complain about the government. That said, I think voting is becoming futile, if it wasn't already and sometimes wonder why I bother. So really, the only real reason I vote is so that I can complain. lol

Yeah, I agree on principal. But I have had talks with a lot of people who do feel voting is a waste of time. They says it makes no difference who wins, nothing is going to change. The politicians will take care of themselves and those who give them their money and the people will continue to put up with their bull. Taxes will increase, more laws will be passed to make lives miserable, politicians will do just the opposite of what the people want, they grow big, fat and rich off the little guys, the government don’t care about those who work, just those who don’t, and on and on. They feel, Republican, Democrat, it don’t matter, it will be business as usual.
 

Master PO

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I for one am progressive, and am cool to the idea of forcing people to be moral...
And, Mr "Right", I'd suggest that you speak with one on welfare....rather than right wing hate radio....
Or, do you think that those on welfare should not be allowed to vate ??

you think government should force people to be moral?

so if that were to happen, and i or you behave in a fashion government ,just does not like, then though we have no hurt anyone government can punish us?

what if government chooses that having an abortion and is immoral, should they use force......forcing it halt?

would you care to show me in any constitution where if gives government the authority over the people, constitutions are limiting documents on government , not the people.

i say they is something wrong, when some people pay no income tax, and vote to raise taxes on other people, and then demonize them as being greedy and selfish.
 

Master PO

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So if economic upheaval that was none of your doing puts you out of a job you also lose your voting status? :lamo

well its seem like sangha, you have you own kind of understanding.

first... i stated what the founders said, however the founders, did not set the regulation of voting, that was put into the hands of the states.

states wanted people to have a stake in state affairs, not to be a free rider, but we do know from history people were not able to vote for race or gender, which was wrong.

explain to me, why a citizen who pays no income taxes, should be able to draw money from our federal goverment, and then call for the ones paying the taxes, to pay even more, and have government even demonize them, government is supposed to work for the people equality, not to use class warfare, and separate the people by policies, political speeches.
 

LadyMoonlight

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It is compulsory in Australia to vote in the three levels of government; Local, State and Federal. Australians register to vote at 18 and then, if they fail to vote, they are fined. If one is out of the country (eg military personnel) an absentee vote is submitted.
I think compulsory voting is a good thing. I would vote even if I didn't have to. Voting is not only the right of every citizen, it is the duty of every citizen. Nothing annoys me more than people who don't bother to vote and then spend years whinging about the result of the election. Someone posted that forcing people to vote meant a lot of uninformed voters....there are a lot of uninformed voters whether the vote is compulsory or not, so that argument does not hold. The only uninformed voters are those who disagree with me :mrgreen: Looking at America for example, one sees news reports about a Presidental candidate who won the election, and would be inclined to think that America really liked that candidate, but when one remembers that that statistic is based on a relatively small percentage of the population who bothered to vote and then only just over half of them, then the system looks flawed. The vast majority ruled by a small minority who bothered to get off their arses and vote!
I am glad voting is compulsory in Australia. It is just one of those things we accept. Yes, there are donkey votes (don't know how many) but I believe that, seeing as we are already at the polling booth, might as well vote correctly and have a say in who runs the country. When a party is elected to government, then, generally speaking but not always, it is a truer representation of the wishes of the Australian people.
 

MoSurveyor

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well its seem like sangha, you have you own kind of understanding.

first... i stated what the founders said, however the founders, did not set the regulation of voting, that was put into the hands of the states.

states wanted people to have a stake in state affairs, not to be a free rider, but we do know from history people were not able to vote for race or gender, which was wrong.

explain to me, why a citizen who pays no income taxes, should be able to draw money from our federal goverment, and then call for the ones paying the taxes, to pay even more, and have government even demonize them, government is supposed to work for the people equality, not to use class warfare, and separate the people by policies, political speeches.
We're all part of the same society whether you like it or not. I know it's a damn shame you have to share your country with those poor, unworthy souls who for one reason or another can't seem to work 60 hours a week to buy a 10x10' chunk of ground just so they can have a say in their own government, which according to you isn't even their government unless they have financial proof to the contrary. Last time I looked poll taxes were illegal regardless of the form they take.


I've got a better idea. How about we make everyone establish that they've actually worked 40 yours a week before they can vote. Even if you're rich, if you can't get off your fat ass and work for the community 40 hours a week then, you don't deserve a vote. (and that goes for the unemployed, too, but job hunting counts for them) That way the people that actually do all the real things that make the country run are the ones that vote. We'll make an exception for people over 65 so that they only have to work 20 hours a week.
 
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Master PO

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We're all part of the same society whether you like it or not. I know it's a damn shame you have to share your country with those poor, unworthy souls who for one reason or another can't seem to work 60 hours a week to buy a 10x10' chunk of ground just so they can have a say in their own government, which according to you isn't even their government unless they have financial proof to the contrary. Last time I looked poll taxes were illegal regardless of the form they take.


I've got a better idea. How about we make everyone establish that they've actually worked 40 yours a week before they can vote. Even if you're rich, if you can't get off your fat ass and work for the community 40 hours a week or you don't deserve a vote. (and that goes for the unemployed, too) That way the people that actually do all the manufacturing, filing, supplying, and running the country in general are the ones that vote. We'll make an exception for people over 65 so that they only have to work 20 hours a week.

i know you will not like this and just cannot accept it, but because people can vote for what is in their personal interest, for all 3 federal politicians, it is causing the downfall of america......because of greed of ones self..
 

Perotista

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It is compulsory in Australia to vote in the three levels of government; Local, State and Federal. Australians register to vote at 18 and then, if they fail to vote, they are fined. If one is out of the country (eg military personnel) an absentee vote is submitted.
I think compulsory voting is a good thing. I would vote even if I didn't have to. Voting is not only the right of every citizen, it is the duty of every citizen. Nothing annoys me more than people who don't bother to vote and then spend years whinging about the result of the election. Someone posted that forcing people to vote meant a lot of uninformed voters....there are a lot of uninformed voters whether the vote is compulsory or not, so that argument does not hold. The only uninformed voters are those who disagree with me :mrgreen: Looking at America for example, one sees news reports about a Presidental candidate who won the election, and would be inclined to think that America really liked that candidate, but when one remembers that that statistic is based on a relatively small percentage of the population who bothered to vote and then only just over half of them, then the system looks flawed. The vast majority ruled by a small minority who bothered to get off their arses and vote!
I am glad voting is compulsory in Australia. It is just one of those things we accept. Yes, there are donkey votes (don't know how many) but I believe that, seeing as we are already at the polling booth, might as well vote correctly and have a say in who runs the country. When a party is elected to government, then, generally speaking but not always, it is a truer representation of the wishes of the Australian people.

Possible, but here in the states where you get somewhere between 50-55% of elegible voters actually voting in a presidential election, it is around 35% in midterm. Some of the reasons they give for voting for a particular candidate is dumbfounding. You get, well he looked more presidential, he was more handsome, I liked his smile, my wife, my husband or parents and or friends voted for him, I like where he is from, he has a pretty wife, he likes dogs, he likes cats, and on and on and on. You ask any one of these where the candidate they voted for stands on any issue, they respond, I don't know.

So even with less than 55% of Americans voting, you have quite a few that have no idea who or what they are voting for.
 

MoSurveyor

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i know you will not like this and just cannot accept it, but because people can vote for what is in their personal interest, for all 3 federal politicians, it is causing the downfall of america......because of greed of ones self..
And here I thought that's what all you Libertarians championed, a society build on individual choices and personal greed - Oh, I'm sorry, "personal self interest".

Guess that only counts if it's YOUR self-interest. :lol:
 

ChrisL

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How important is voting?

  1. Very.
  2. Important, but futile.
  3. Meh.
  4. Not very.
  5. Not at all.
  6. Other

Are you part of the solution, or are you part of the problem?

  • If you're an idiot/uninformed voter, you're part of the problem. You're lazy and/or a sucker for the politicians.
  • If you don't vote at all, because you don't care (and, hence are probably not even here at Debate Politics to read this), you're part of the problem. You're letting the politicians have their way unchallenged.
  • If you don't vote at all, because you think it's futile, you're part of the problem. I don't give a rat's arse how informed you are, or even if you're correct in your conclusions, you're still a sucker for the politicians by providing complicit approval for their actions.
  • I'd rather you be incorrect and vote (provided you're sincere and earnest in your research), than correct and not vote. You may not be correct in your conclusions, but at least you're not a sucker or an enabler. I can accept that.

Personally, I don't deny the feelings of futility, but at the very least I'm not approving and I can say, "Don't blame me, I didn't approve of what they're doing(by either my action or inaction)."

I vote, but I wonder sometimes if it matters. I still do it though. I figure I have nothing to lose, so why not? :)
 

Master PO

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And here I thought that's what all you Libertarians championed, a society build on individual choices and personal greed - Oh, I'm sorry, "personal self interest".

Guess that only counts if it's YOUR self-interest. :lamo

i said .......vote...here is why!

The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.-- federalist 47

do you need a translation of this?
 

MoSurveyor

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i said .......vote...here is why!

The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.-- federalist 47

do you need a translation of this?
I'd like to see a real answer from you instead of preaching. It's too bad you can't seem to tell the difference.

What you've posted, taken at face value, implies there can never be anything but tyranny.
As usual, out of context quotes seldom lead to good results.
 

radcen

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i know you will not like this and just cannot accept it, but because people can vote for what is in their personal interest, for all 3 federal politicians, it is causing the downfall of america......because of greed of ones self..
Are you saying that people in the 'approved' classes (land owners, taxpayers, whatever) aren't voting for THEIR self-interests?

Hint: The correct answer is "Yes, of course they are (were)", and that's why they set it up that way.
 

Master PO

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Are you saying that people in the 'approved' classes (land owners, taxpayers, whatever) aren't voting for THEIR self-interests?

Hint: The correct answer is "Yes, of course they are (were)", and that's why they set it up that way.


no it was not set up that way!

when anyone votes, THEY always vote in their own self interest, that is a fact of life, and the founders, and the ancient Greeks say it too.

this is why this line: "The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.-- federalist 47

this is why the founders created republican government, not democratic government, ..because they did not want the people voting directly for every federal politician.........only your congressman.

that is why the senators and the electoral college, has the direct vote in those two positions of power.

if you give the people all of the power directly, that is majority rule and dangerous, and it leads to tyranny., as stated in federalist 47
 

radcen

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no it was not set up that way!

when anyone votes, THEY always vote in their own self interest, that is a fact of life, and the founders, and the ancient Greeks say it too.

this is why this line: "The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.-- federalist 47

this is why the founders created republican government, not democratic government, ..because they did not want the people voting directly for every federal politician.........only your congressman.

that is why the senators and the electoral college, has the direct vote in those two positions of power.

if you give the people all of the power directly, that is majority rule and dangerous, and it leads to tyranny., as stated in federalist 47
Just because federalist 47 said so doesn't necessarily make it so. Based on what you're saying here, all federalist 47 did was exchange one tyranny for another, with neither being particularly ideal or better than the other.
 

Master PO

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Just because federalist 47 said so doesn't necessarily make it so. Based on what you're saying here, all federalist 47 did was exchange one tyranny for another, with neither being particularly ideal or better than the other.

no federalist 47 is why we had a ...............mixed constitution, federalist 40.

to separate power between the states and the people, as not to give the people to much direct power or they will become tyrannical, using majority rule, as democracy does, which the founders hated, because it sooner or later will destroy itself.
 

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As far as I am concerned, if you don't vote you do not have an ethical/moral right to complain about the government.
 

peepnklown

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It’s all a sham, a dog and pony show, a rigged game.
Beh!
 
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