• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

How Do You Feel About American Nationalism???

P

Politiqz

New member
Joined
Jul 18, 2017
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Hi Everyone, new poster here.

#Nazi #Trumpers #Alt-Right #Racist# Not really, but let's just get the accusations out of the way now.


I would like to know how you feel about a possible American Nationalist movement. Are you opposed to this and why? Do you find it dangerous, disgusting, immoral, or impractical? I am particularly interested in hearing from people who are left or center and dislike the idea.

A quick caveat is in order. I am not aware of any "American Nationalist" movement at the present. I am not talking about a movement such as what we have seen with the Alt-Right, the Alt-Light, or the Trumpers. When I talk about "American Nationalism" I mean it in the same sense as English Nationalism or Korean Nationalism. Firstly, there is an American people. Secondly, America is the geographic homeland of that people. Thirdly, the United States exists for the benefit of the American people and none other.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Now, here are a few positions that are part of my version of American Nationalism.

1. By "Americans" I am referring to the White people who are part of the Anglo culture. People who have immigrated from other countries such as Sweden or France, for example, are not part of the "American People".

2. I am not talking about White nationalism. Minorities would would be encouraged to intermarry with Whites and to assimilate into the American culture.

3. White Western culture is superior to many cultures around the world (e.g., Islam, Indian culture/Hinduism, etc.).

4. Minorities wouldn't have special privileges any more, otherwise things would be the same legally.

5. I oppose feminism, gay/trans liberation, black liberation, and any other "liberation" movement which is against the traditional nuclear family or hostile to Whites. At the same time, there must be equal rights for gays, women, etc.

6. The failure of minorities to adopt the American culture is the reason for their distress. Whatever the causes for that, Americans are not to blame.

7. I am against all large scale immigration (legal and illegal) because it challenges American identity and the integrity of the culture. It causes many serious social problems on top of that.
 
Last edited:
I (British) wish American Nationalism was not so easily hijacked by those in power to drag you into wars for Wall street's benefit.

And also I would think it a good idea if you could separate the Nationalism/Patriotism from having loads of guns.
 
I was actually going to at an 8th and 9th point that relate to your concern.

#8. American Nationalism is NOT corpratism. The people come first, not the interests of the lobbyists and the billionaires.

#9. This isn't Patriotism. Patriots may be loyal to their government, or more often, to the constitution. Loyalty under nationalism is to the people, not the country or an abstract creed.
 
Politiqz said:
1. By "Americans" I am referring to the White people who are part of the Anglo culture. People who have immigrated from other countries such as Sweden or France, for example, are not part of the "American People".
Click to expand...

Well...



 
Mac77 said:
Naturally the guilt-ridden white libs will not like #1

They have been taught to be ashamed of all the great accomplishments of white Christian Anglo and Euro culture
Click to expand...

When where we taught that? I must have missed that lesson...
 
Mac77 said:
Naturally the guilt-ridden white libs will not like #1

They have been taught to be ashamed of all the great accomplishments of white Christian Anglo and Euro culture
Click to expand...

Yeah, slaughtering the true first Americans is something to be proud of. Not that I feel guilty, but really? Don't act like the white Christian Anglo is so pure and without blood on their hands.
 

Politiqz:

1) Anglo/Scots/Irish/Welsh Americans account for less than 25% of the modern American population.

2) Why should any state control who can or cannot breed with whom? As America grows it will become less White and less Anglo even if you curtail immigration or skew it to reinforce the Anglo-minority. Your done for, old bean, so just accept it.

3) Ask a First Nations person or a Central or South American about the innate superiority of White-Anglo-American culture. If they don't collapse laughing or simply walk away from you out of politeness they might give you a broader education. Have you travelled to Islamic countries, the Indian Sub-continent or East Asia? Have you personally experienced the cultures which you so cavalierly dismiss out of hand?

4) Equality before the law is a good goal so I agree with your sentiment but this also means preventing discrimination. Would you be comfortable with the state forcing you to stop giving preference to White-Anglo-Americans?

5) These liberation movements have existed and do exist because the group's you cite do not have real equality of rights in everyday life. Such rights may exist on paper and in statute but they are not expressed fully in society due to bias, prejudice and bigotry. Would you support a White-Anglo-American Liberation movement?

6) As White-Anglo-Americans are a minority in the USA, you had better get assimilating or you will cause further distress. And yes you are to blame for your failure to assimilate into the melting pot of American cultural history.

7) There is no American identity and there is no American mono-culture.... and there never really has been. What you are describing is a myth. White-Anglo-American culture and tribalism (not nationalism) applies to only small segments of the US population and geography. Ask the First Nations, Cajuns, the Hispanics, the Afro-Americans, the Germans and the Swedes, the Italians, Greeks and Slavs, the Jews, the Hawaiians, the Chinese, the Philippines, the Koreans and the many more cultures which make up the cultural stew bubbling in the American melting pot. It's time for you and yours to melt too.

The America you envisage is as dead as Roanoke and has been for years. It's time for your inner ground-hog to pop his head out and see America for what it is as opposed to seeing what it never really was.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Last edited:
holbritter said:
Yeah, slaughtering the true first Americans is something to be proud of. Not that I feel guilty, but really? Don't act like the white Christian Anglo is so pure and without blood on their hands.
Click to expand...

White Christian Anglo's (and hispanics) have much to regret but far more to be proud of
 

White skin is not required to have white Christian values

In fact you don't even have to be Christian

We want America to be one nation that is not divided by the tribalism that the left supports
 



First - Anglo culture does not equal American culture. But that was a smooth transition in your proposal. Native Americans are just that. So if anyone should have assimilated, it should have been the "Anglo" (whatever that means to you)

After your second position, I didn't even consider your proposal seriously. The third one sealed the deal.
 
Mac77 said:
White skin is not required to have white Christian values

In fact you don't even have to be Christian

We want America to be one nation that is not divided by the tribalism that the left supports
Click to expand...

Mac77:

Isn't White-Anglo-American nationalism a kind of tribalism? Aren't you imposing a minority tribal gestalt on a non-conforming majority of Americans? You can't assimilate your skin colour nor change you national heritage. The only way to fully participate in this kind of nationalism is to be born into it and that is tribalism. If not born into it you are "the other" and not a full member of Club USA. Why should a person born in the USA to a Japanese or Jordanian family abandon their heritage and become an ersatz member of a minority culture that stresses Judeo-Christian ideals and a European based cultural experience?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 

I suppose so

And one good tribe with shared values not at war with itself is better than 15 little tribes all fighting with each other

As for the idea that one has to be born into the white Anglo Christian tribe that may be true in other countries but not in America

People of all races can adopt American culture and be Americans if they choose to be
 
Politiqz said:
1. By "Americans" I am referring to the White people who are part of the Anglo culture. People who have immigrated from other countries such as Sweden or France, for example, are not part of the "American People".
Click to expand...

Hey bud, I hate to break it to you, but all white people in the US are European immigrants.

No, we're not interested in your white supremacist ethno-nationalism. This was a bad thread and you should feel bad.
 

Mac77:

What defines American Culture? British pilgrims, Creole Food, Dutch tobacco, Irish whiskey, Italian opera, First Nations' sweet grass burning rituals, love of Jazz or Rock and Roll, German-American period furniture, Morgan Freeman's pearls of wisdom, Kung-fu movies, Alex de Tocqueville's "Democracy in America", pizza and beer? Your culture is a mosaic of indigenous and immigrant parches all stitched together and practiced by all. There is no American mono-culture and to try and impose an American mono-myth on an heterogeneous society is dangerous and divisive. America's strength lies in its diversity and opportunity for all but not its homogeneity and exclusion.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Mac77 said:
White skin is not required to have white Christian values
In fact you don't even have to be Christian
We want America to be one nation that is not divided by the tribalism that the left supports
Click to expand...

Translation: the evil left supports the horror that is individuals choosing their own values, Mac supports Americans being forced into one ideology (his own) by government force.


When Mac says "white Christian values" he simply means his own values that he's arbitrarily chosen. He better start the ethnic and social cleansing of all "undesirables" that don't believe and think exactly as he does, then he can finally have the united nation he desires.
 
First off, one needs to define what American culture is...
 
My only issue is the OP of only 2 posts certainly mentions the word "WHITE" quite a lot of times.
Five if I counted right.
(red flags going up)
 

All of that is true

White Christian culture has evolved with the inclusion of other races and cultures

But when they adopt 90% and white Christian culture adopts 10% of theirs that becomes our common culture and I'm ok with that

What you call diversity is really common values

Without shared values we are a trainwreck waiting to happen
 
Nationalism is an infantile dieaease, and the root cause of so much violence and suffering in this world. It is not needed here, nor anywhere.
 
This is based on the false promise that there was ever an originary pure Anglo-Saxon or Christian culture which has now become tainted by mixing with other cultures. Christianity and Judaism are middle eastern religions, originating from Middle Eastern culture. The Ten Commandments are a simplistic version of ancient legal codes of Middle Eastern civilizations, such as the Babylonian code of Hammurabi. The ideas of the world being about a battle between good and evil, the apocalypse, and The ideas of heaven and hell in the afterlife are based on Persian Zoroastrian religion. The numeral system is Arabic and was only imported from north Africa by an Italian mathematician Fibonacci in medieval times after traveling there. At first the church fought this very hard because it was considered alien and heathen. But have you ever tried doing long division using Roman numerals?

As far as Anglo-Saxon culture, the Angles and Saxons were warring and rival tribes for many centuries. What we call British culture today also had many other mixed roots- it arose from many different rival cultures and tribes, also often warring for centuries, including the Celts, Welch, Scotts, Irish, Romans, Vikings, etc....

And even if you want to talk about British culture, what do you want to go back to? The British Isles only became Christian in the 4th to 5th centuries A.D. Before that they had druids and other religions there which we know very little about because Literacy was not very common . Do you want to build Stonehenge type structures now? You could not even understand the middle English of Chaucer. It was a very different language. And that was just a few centuries ago. Forget Old English. I bet you can't even understand Shakespeare very well. It really takes our modern ears some time to get used to understanding even Shakespeare. Do you want to go back to Pre-Roman medieval British culture? Maybe that was the real British culture. Or medieval British culture, where they would burn witches and heretics alive at the stake and they had a king that they believe that the divine right to rule? Before Henry VIIi, they were Catholic. Should we be Catholics or would you prefer Anglicans?

Trying to recapture some kind of defining principle of British culture is grasping at a mirage. The idea but there ever was a coherent, unified such culture disappears as soon as you approach it. Human cultures are always changing and dynamic. They are living things. When people say these kinds of things like the OP, they usually have a very particular time and culture in mind that want to go back to, which they think was some perfectly unified thing, which they want to mummify and freeze forever. Some people want to do British culture In the enlightenment perhaps, maybe making us go back to wearing powdered wigs, Tricorner hat, and buckled shoes, others maybe would like America in the 1950s. But whatever it is it's grasping at straws and a is a futile project.

Rather than looking to the past for a model of what culture you want to force on today's society, it would be better to ask what mindsets, practices, habits, and traditions can we foster in our current culture to make it the most functional. How can we create the most happiness, how can we create the most opportunities for the most number of people, where people can thrive and grow the best. You are never going to recapture older, lost cultures.
 
Last edited:

Since you are safely in europe its not your problem

Just read my reply to evilroddy to see my answer to you
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…