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How Did the Apostles Die?

The intent was entirely different...Christians sought to spread the Word of God...Baháʼís main purpose was to die a martyr...

The Baha’i sought to spread what they saw as the truth of the Bab’s message. It was no different.

Yes or no: did the Baha’i martyrs “die for a lie”?

This is my THIRD TIME asking you for a direct answer.
 
The Baha’i sought to spread what they saw as the truth of the Bab’s message. It was no different.

Yes or no: did the Baha’i martyrs “die for a lie”?

This is my THIRD TIME asking you for a direct answer.
Wrong...martyrdom was their main focus...

In Bábism, martyrdom had the literal meaning of sacrificing one's life and was seen as a public declaration of sincerity and devotion to God.[3] During the 1840s and 1850s the Báb claimed to be the return of the Mahdi and gained a strong following.[4] The Persian clergy tried to stop the spread of the Bábí movement by denouncing the Bábís as apostates; these denouncements led to public executions of the Bábís, troop engagements against the Bábís, and an extensive pogrom where thousands of Bábís were killed.[4] In addition, the Báb himself was publicly executed in 1850.[4] The Bábís that were killed during these times are seen as martyrs by Baháʼís, and the date of execution of the Báb, is considered a holy day in the Baháʼí calendar as the Martyrdom of the Báb.[3][5] Also among the Bábí executions was the poet Táhirih, one of the Báb's eighteen disciples, who Baháʼís consider the first woman suffrage martyr.[6]

After Baháʼu'lláh abstracted the meaning of martyrdom, gave it a new meaning, and abolished holy war, the Bábís who became Baháʼís stopped seeking martyrdom as a public declaration of devotion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrdom_in_the_Baháʼí_Faith
 
Wrong...martyrdom was their main focus...

In Bábism, martyrdom had the literal meaning of sacrificing one's life and was seen as a public declaration of sincerity and devotion to God.[3] During the 1840s and 1850s the Báb claimed to be the return of the Mahdi and gained a strong following.[4] The Persian clergy tried to stop the spread of the Bábí movement by denouncing the Bábís as apostates; these denouncements led to public executions of the Bábís, troop engagements against the Bábís, and an extensive pogrom where thousands of Bábís were killed.[4] In addition, the Báb himself was publicly executed in 1850.[4] The Bábís that were killed during these times are seen as martyrs by Baháʼís, and the date of execution of the Báb, is considered a holy day in the Baháʼí calendar as the Martyrdom of the Báb.[3][5] Also among the Bábí executions was the poet Táhirih, one of the Báb's eighteen disciples, who Baháʼís consider the first woman suffrage martyr.[6]

After Baháʼu'lláh abstracted the meaning of martyrdom, gave it a new meaning, and abolished holy war, the Bábís who became Baháʼís stopped seeking martyrdom as a public declaration of devotion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrdom_in_the_Baháʼí_Faith

Did the Baha’i martyrs “die for a lie”?

Fourth time asking. Your failure to address the question shows you are not being honest, aka lying, aka committing the sin of bearing false witness. Will you enjoy it when your unapologetic sinning results in you not having paradise on Earth?
 
Did the Baha’i martyrs “die for a lie”?

Fourth time asking. Your failure to address the question shows you are not being honest, aka lying, aka committing the sin of bearing false witness. Will you enjoy it when your unapologetic sinning results in you not having paradise on Earth?
Again, you are the one who is being dishonest...this thread is about how the apostles died for what they had witnessed and truly believed in because of their personal experiences...you and others have said that that the apostles did not witness Christ performing miracles nor did they witness his resurrection...they knew what they were saying was the truth because they SAW it with their own eyes...let me refresh your memory...
Who here would be willing to die for something they know is a lie? I sure wouldn't...
 
Again, you are the one who is being dishonest...this thread is about how the apostles died for what they had witnessed and truly believed in because of their personal experiences...you and others have said that that the apostles did not witness Christ performing miracles nor did they witness his resurrection...they knew what they were saying was the truth because they SAW it with their own eyes...let me refresh your memory...

It’s about what they CLAIM they witnessed. The truth of their claims can’t be verified.

You are still terrified to answer a direct question. Your intellectual dishonesty, aka LYING, is directly on display.

Did the Baha’i Martyrs “die for a lie”?
 
It’s about what they CLAIM they witnessed. The truth of their claims can’t be verified.

You are still terrified to answer a direct question. Your intellectual dishonesty, aka LYING, is directly on display.

Did the Baha’i Martyrs “die for a lie”?
Your question has nothing to do with this thread, as I have proven to you with my OP...so we're done...I refuse to converse with someone who is being so blatantly dishonest...
 
Your question has nothing to do with this thread, as I have proven to you with my OP...so we're done...I refuse to converse with someone who is being so blatantly dishonest...

Your OP is seeking to establish a false dichotomy. You are claiming no one would be willing to suffer grievous torture and death for beliefs they know to be alive, so therefore the only other option is that those beliefs must have been true.

So I ask again, did the Baha’i martyrs “die for a lie”?

Or is there a third option: people sincerely believing thing to be true and willing to die for them, but those beliefs actually not being true?

And if that is a possibility, why wouldn’t it apply to the Apostles?
 
Your OP is seeking to establish a false dichotomy. You are claiming no one would be willing to suffer grievous torture and death for beliefs they know to be alive, so therefore the only other option is that those beliefs must have been true.

So I ask again, did the Baha’i martyrs “die for a lie”?

Or is there a third option: people sincerely believing thing to be true and willing to die for them, but those beliefs actually not being true?

And if that is a possibility, why wouldn’t it apply to the Apostles?
Wrong...this thread is about the apostles dying for what/who they witnessed with their own eyes, Jesus Christ...period...they would not have died for him if they were telling lies about him...
 
Wrong...this thread is about the apostles dying for what/who they witnessed with their own eyes, Jesus Christ...period...they would not have died for him if they were telling lies about him...

Would the Baha’i martyrs have died if they were telling lies about the Bab?
 
I notice @Elora created an incredibly ignorant post then tried to delete it before I saw it. She failed.

Yes, many of the early Baha’i martyrs personally knew the Bab and attested to the truth of the various supernatural claims about him.

Were they willing to die if they were telling lies?
 
I notice @Elora created an incredibly ignorant post then tried to delete it before I saw it. She failed.

Yes, many of the early Baha’i martyrs personally knew the Bab and attested to the truth of the various supernatural claims about him.

Were they willing to die if they were telling lies?
No, I just decided not to encourage your lying any further but since you insist on continuing with your deceit...no, they did not see him resurrected or perform miracles...
 
No, I just decided not to encourage your lying any further but since you insist on continuing with your deceit...no, they did not see him resurrected or perform miracles...

So now it’s a special pleading logical fallacy? Anything to avoid applying your standard in a way it can actually be logically examined, right?
 
So now it’s a special pleading logical fallacy? Anything to avoid applying your standard in a way it can actually be logically examined, right?
So, stop your pleading already...lol...
 
Nice try. But I'm not the one who's kicking God to the curb and denying everything presented to them.

Yes, yet another 'nice try' while denying everything presented that contradicts what you KNOW to be true.

Nevertheless, our back and forth is not very positive and only marginally related to the topic of this thread, so no more from me except to respond to specific claims.
 
What is important is the fact that they were all willing to die for their faith.

Why's that important? Lots of Muslims are willing to die for their faith. Does that make their faith correct?
 
Why's that important? Lots of Muslims are willing to die for their faith. Does that make their faith correct?

And what will happen now is that @Elora will either change goalposts on you or engage in a special pleading logical fallacy where only Christian martyrs count.
 
And what will happen now is that @Elora will either change goalposts on you or engage in a special pleading logical fallacy where only Christian martyrs count.

Wait until I tell her about the fact that the God she believes in apparently changes his mind a lot (Garden of Eden, Flood, Old Testament, New Testament) and that, on that theory, Islam is just the latest manifestation of his capriciousness, and obviously the true and current version of her religion. Abrahamic 3.0, as it were.
 

Does God Change His Mind?

The Bible’s answer

Yes, he does, in the sense that he changes his attitude when people change their behavior. For example, when God sent a judgment message to the people of ancient Israel, he said: “Perhaps they will listen and each one will turn back from his evil way, and I will change my mind concerning the calamity that I intend to bring on them because of their evil deeds.”—Jeremiah 26:3.
Many Bible translations render this verse as saying that God would “repent” over the intended calamity, which could be understood to mean that he had made a mistake. However, the original Hebrew word can mean “change of mind or intention.” One scholar wrote: “A change in man’s conduct brings about a change in God’s judgment.”
Of course, just because God can change his mind does not mean that he must change it. Consider some situations where the Bible says that God has not changed his mind:
  • God did not allow Balak to make Him change His mind and curse the nation of Israel.—Numbers 23:18-20.
  • Once King Saul of Israel became firmly set in badness, God did not change his mind about rejecting him as king.—1 Samuel 15:28, 29.
  • God will fulfill his promise to make his Son a priest forever. God will not change His mind.—Psalm 110:4.

Doesn’t the Bible say that God never changes?

Yes, the Bible records God as saying: “I am Jehovah; I do not change.” (Malachi 3:6) Similarly, the Bible says that God “does not vary or change like the shifting shadows.” (James 1:17) This, however, does not contradict what the Bible says about God changing his mind. God is unchangeable in that his personality and standards of love and justice never alter. (Deuteronomy 32:4; 1 John 4:8) Still, he can give different instructions to people at different times. For instance, God gave opposite instructions to King David for fighting two consecutive battles, yet both methods succeeded.—2 Samuel 5:18-25.

Is God sorry that he created humans?

No, although he does regret that most people ignore or reject him. Describing conditions before the global Flood of Noah’s day, the Bible says: “Jehovah regretted that he had made men on the earth, and his heart was saddened.” (Genesis 6:6) In this verse, the word “regretted” comes from the Hebrew word that can mean “change of mind.” God changed his mind about most of the people who lived before the Flood because they had become wicked. (Genesis 6:5, 11) Even though he was saddened that they chose to follow a bad course, he did not change his attitude toward the entire human race. In fact, he preserved mankind through the Flood by means of Noah and his family.—Genesis 8:21; 2 Peter 2:5, 9.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/502014343?q=does+god+change+his+mind&p=sen
 
“I can’t answer your argument but my cult’s propaganda says…”
"I can't read it for fear of it making too much sense..."
 
"I can't read it for fear of it making too much sense..."

Nothing from your cult makes sense. It’s why they have been consistently wrong about their various predictions of the end of the world.
 
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