How are Jehovah Witnesses in error?

[LittleNipper]

Because he can't. Because he's doesn't exist.

The fool says in his heart that there is no GOD.

 

[MrWonka]

The fool says in his heart that there is no GOD.

Wrong. It's your heart that wants to believe there is a god. It's your heart that wants you to believe there is heaven. It's your heart that you're a special chosen one. It's your heart that wants you to believe in magic.

Your brain, if you have a decent one, should know better.

 

[LittleNipper]

Wrong. It's your heart that wants to believe there is a god. It's your heart that wants you to believe there is heaven. It's your heart that you're a special chosen one. It's your heart that wants you to believe in magic.

Your brain, if you have a decent one, should know better.

I don't believe in LUCK. I believe EVERYTHING happens with reason. You believe in magic.

 

[Daisy]

I believe EVERYTHING happens with reason.

Not always...time and unforeseen occurrences befall us all at one time or another...being in the wrong place at the wrong time...

"I have seen something further under the sun, that the swift do not always win the race, nor do the mighty win the battle, nor do the wise always have the food, nor do the intelligent always have the riches, nor do those with knowledge always have success, because time and unexpected events overtake them all." Ecclesiastes 9:11

 

[tosca1]

For the most part I doubt any non-believers being interested in reading the scriptures you quote. For at least me personally, simply citing the chapter and verse without quoting it will suffice -- I take the time to look at them (in my actual Bible) when mentioned.

Why? Did I say only non-believers?
Furthermore, are you kidding me? You think people will be looking up chapters and verses?
I post them for convenience. Saving you the trouble. I should get plus points for that, no?


I'm not you.
And like I said, the people I usually debate here with, are not the sole reasons I am here.


My last statement is a statement of fact.
Lol - you seem to be bothered by posted verses! You even whine about me posting the verses relevant to our discussion.

So, your last sentence is not warranted, nor correct. It's more likely something you prefer to believe to give you a sense of victory in a "debate".

You had taken the "fear is torment" out of context - or, you had failed to understand it correctly!
The posted verse clearly showed to you - and to everyone here who's reading - what it meant when I explained it.
You could see it for yourself as you read the verses!


Just look at you now. You whine about the Scriptural verses being posted.
You have a problem even with that - you carry on like as if they hurt you somehow - oh boy, I wonder why.

So, yes my last comment is warranted.

What more can I say?

 

[tosca1]

Yeah, they said that, not once did Jesus agree with them...it was a false charge, just like everything else they wracked up against him...Jesus goes on to acknowledge the TRUTH in verse 36...

"do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?"

Not in verse 36.
That's a question posed back to the Jews. And, we already discussed that indeed, God came to us as a human in Jesus Christ -
in the role of the SON of GOD.


Don't just cite one line.................................... that it takes the whole statement out of context.


The statement of truth came AGAIN on verse 38, that's why the Jews got angry again and tried to grab Him!
He repeated His claim about being God!
Here is the full context!


John 10

33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy,
and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”
39 Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand.

 

[tosca1]

So many clear verses making it known that Jesus was God's son, not God.

Oh, yeah? When taken out of context, you mean.

Btw - Elora has not given an answer to a specific challenge I threw her.
Here: post #191



WHOA! Wait a minute........
Actually, according to you.....................................THEY DO NO AGREE!
If God is not Jesus Christ, they contradict each other.
Like in this case of being husband and wife.


God claims He is our betroth!

Hosea 2

16 “In that day,” declares the Lord,
“you will call me ‘my husband’;
you will no longer call me ‘my master.[d]’

19 And I will betroth you to me forever. I will betroth you to me in righteousness and in justice, in steadfast love and in mercy.


Isaiah had prophesied God is our husband!


Isaiah 54
“For your husband is your Maker,
Whose name is the Lord of hosts;
And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel,
Who is called the God of all the earth.




Isn't Jesus our groom?


2 Cor 11:2
For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ.
Ephesians 5
24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.


Revelations 19
7 Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready.





Which one is our husband, Elora? God, or Christ?

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

I think when everyone tried to be the boss, there is chaos... So the family is a workplace. At least let it be a workplace where each specialist is master of their own "corner of the shop." As Virginia Woolf claimed "A woman must have money and a room of her own if she is to write fiction "...

debatepolitics.com

So - since Elora has gone on ignore-mode again, perhaps you can give us the answer instead, Overitall.


Who's our groom? God or Christ?


Who's telling a lie...................................... God or Christ?

 

[tosca1]

Post #197 had Elora even admitting to not hearing.


She says:

What I hear when you talk...

She fails to realize that if I am presenting Scriptural verses as my rebuttal to her - then, it's actually the teachings of Christ that she's gone deaf to.
Thus my answer to her:



Lol - of course. You don't hear........................... and, you can't hear.
You've been deafened by JW.
Isn't this what I've been pointing out?


John 8
43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning,
not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.


Thank you for admitting it.

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

I think when everyone tried to be the boss, there is chaos... So the family is a workplace. At least let it be a workplace where each specialist is master of their own "corner of the shop." As Virginia Woolf claimed "A woman must have money and a room of her own if she is to write fiction "...

debatepolitics.com

 

[Daisy]

You think people will be looking up chapters and verses?

They don't read your long-winded drivel, either...

 

[Overitall]

Why? Did I say only non-believers?
Furthermore, are you kidding me? You think people will be looking up chapters and verses?
I post them for convenience. Saving you the trouble. I should get plus points for that, no?


I'm not you.
And like I said, the people I usually debate here with, are not the sole reasons I am here.


My last statement is a statement of fact.
Lol - you seem to be bothered by posted verses! You even whine about me posting the verses relevant to our discussion.










You had taken the "fear is torment" out of context - or, you had failed to understand it correctly!
The posted verse clearly showed to you - and to everyone here who's reading - what it meant when I explained it.
You could see it for yourself as you read the verses!


Just look at you now. You whine about the Scriptural verses being posted.
You have a problem even with that - you carry on like as if they hurt you somehow - oh boy, I wonder why. View attachment 67364106

So, yes my last comment is warranted.

What more can I say?

Let's clear up something. I don't mind scriptures being quoted. What I do object to is a "wall of text" which makes it difficult to respond to a post due to word count limits. To rectify this problem it would be easier to just cite the chapter and verses of the Bible you wish to use to support your position and just take for granted people will take the time to look them up. If they don't it's an indication that they aren't interested in any verses you cite and most likely are scrolling past the ones you do post. Being that as it may, here are some verses I'll quote to you in response. You may be able to get the message of them or you might not.

Hebrews 5:5 - 14
So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Ordinarily, I would highlight certain phrases in bold to draw your attention to them, but this time I think I'll just leave it up to you to figure out my emphasis in citing the verses. I seriously doubt you'll be able to.

 

[Overitall]

Oh, yeah? When taken out of context, you mean.

Btw - Elora has not given an answer to a specific challenge I threw her.
Here: post #191



WHOA! Wait a minute........
Actually, according to you.....................................THEY DO NO AGREE!
If God is not Jesus Christ, they contradict each other.
Like in this case of being husband and wife.


God claims He is our betroth!

Hosea 2

16 “In that day,” declares the Lord,
“you will call me ‘my husband’;
you will no longer call me ‘my master.[d]’

19 And I will betroth you to me forever. I will betroth you to me in righteousness and in justice, in steadfast love and in mercy.


Isaiah had prophesied God is our husband!


Isaiah 54
“For your husband is your Maker,
Whose name is the Lord of hosts;
And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel,
Who is called the God of all the earth.




Isn't Jesus our groom?


2 Cor 11:2
For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ.
Ephesians 5
24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.


Revelations 19
7 Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready.





Which one is our husband, Elora? God, or Christ?

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

I think when everyone tried to be the boss, there is chaos... So the family is a workplace. At least let it be a workplace where each specialist is master of their own "corner of the shop." As Virginia Woolf claimed "A woman must have money and a room of her own if she is to write fiction "...

debatepolitics.com

So - since Elora has gone on ignore-mode again, perhaps you can give us the answer instead, Overitall.


Who's our groom? God or Christ?


Who's telling a lie...................................... God or Christ?

King James Bible Dictionary - Strongs Number - H3469

saving; {Jishi} the name of four Israelites

kingjamesbibledictionary.com

Brown Driver definition:

Ishi = "He saves me"

 

[LittleNipper]

Not always...time and unforeseen occurrences befall us all at one time or another...being in the wrong place at the wrong time...

"I have seen something further under the sun, that the swift do not always win the race, nor do the mighty win the battle, nor do the wise always have the food, nor do the intelligent always have the riches, nor do those with knowledge always have success, because time and unexpected events overtake them all." Ecclesiastes 9:11

I believe Solomon was being sarcastic. Because there are always surprises to us, but not to GOD. HE knows everything that will happen to each of us. HE sees the past, present and future of everything. JESUS was in human form and as a result there were yet things that HE depended on HIS FATHER to reveal while in HIS earthly existence. ThIs is so HE could also be fully man.

 

[Daisy]

HE knows everything that will happen to each of us. HE sees the past, present and future of everything.

That goes against everything free will is about...the Bible says He knows the beginning and the end, as for what happens in between, He also has the power to be selective about knowing, allowing us the free will He created us with...that being said, there is nothing Satan or man can do stop His will from being fulfilled...

 

[tosca1]

No, he's not. Nor, do I need him to be. He's still my Lord and Savior.

It's not up to YOU.
If Jesus says He and the Father are One - and I've explained it in details following the verses how it means He is God.......
then, we have to accept that! Otherwise, how are we humble in spirit when refuse to back down and accept what is taught?

For argument sake, how can you say He's your Lord when you oppose what He says?
How can you say, you believe in Him?

If you don't believe and accept what He claims.........that means, you don't believe in Him. Right?

 

[tosca1]

They don't read your long-winded drivel, either...

Why would that matter to you?

 

[tosca1]

Let's clear up something. I don't mind scriptures being quoted. What I do object to is a "wall of text" which makes it difficult to respond to a post due to word count limits. To rectify this problem it would be easier to just cite the chapter and verses of the Bible you wish to use to support your position and just take for granted people will take the time to look them up. If they don't it's an indication that they aren't interested in any verses you cite and most likely are scrolling past the ones you do post. Being that as it may, here are some verses I'll quote to you in response. You may be able to get the message of them or you might not.

Hebrews 5:5 - 14
So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec. Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Ordinarily, I would highlight certain phrases in bold to draw your attention to them, but this time I think I'll just leave it up to you to figure out my emphasis in citing the verses. I seriously doubt you'll be able to.

Divide your responses. Create another reply thread.

Like I said, I don't post full verses for your benefit alone.
Lol, I'm not persevering, constantly rehashing old arguments for you and Elora.

 

[tosca1]

King James Bible Dictionary - Strongs Number - H3469

saving; {Jishi} the name of four Israelites

kingjamesbibledictionary.com

Brown Driver definition:

Ishi = "He saves me"

Why don't you explain it?


What that got to do with a simple question:

Who is our groom? GOD or, CHRIST?

 

[tosca1]

They don't read your long-winded drivel, either...

What's that got to do with the simple question?

WHO IS OUR GROOM? GOD, OR CHRIST?

 

[Overitall]

It's not up to YOU.
If Jesus says He and the Father are One - and I've explained it in details following the verses how it means He is God.......
then, we have to accept that! Otherwise, how are we humble in spirit when refuse to back down and accept what is taught?

For argument sake, how can you say He's your Lord when you oppose what He says?
How can you say, you believe in Him?

If you don't believe and accept what He claims.........that means, you don't believe in Him. Right?

When you can cite a verse where Jesus claimed to be God get back to me.

 

[Overitall]

Why don't you explain it?


What that got to do with a simple question:

Who is our groom? GOD or, CHRIST?

If you can't understand the obvious I doubt any explanation I could present would be any easier for you to grasp.

 

[Overitall]

Divide your responses. Create another reply thread.

Like I said, I don't post full verses for your benefit alone.
Lol, I'm not persevering, constantly rehashing old arguments for you and Elora.

It's ok by me if you don't want to be cooperative. I'll just not respond to your posts of excessive text. They're really only for your imaginary audience anyways.

 

[tosca1]

When you can cite a verse where Jesus claimed to be God get back to me.

I did.

 

[tosca1]

It's ok by me if you don't want to be cooperative. I'll just not respond to your posts of excessive text. They're really only for your imaginary audience anyways.

I suppose, LARGE FONTS can't be used as an excuse anymore ................................to deflect?

 

[tosca1]

If you can't understand the obvious I doubt any explanation I could present would be any easier for you to grasp.

What obvious? Obvious my, foot!
That's like Elora's style in deflecting. "I already gave the answer!"
Or, "I won't bother with you because of your colors.....or fonts.....or emojis."
This is the first time "WALL OF TEXT," is cited as the reason for not responding! That's a new one!

What kind of discussion wouldn't have a so-called, wall of text?
You have a rational, adult discussions using one-liners?

You and her - you really are both taking from the same page, by the looks of it.
Are you being disingenuous now too?



If God and Jesus are not One and the Same, who is our groom? God, or Christ?

Never mind the lame posturing.
If you don't know how to answer it.................. just say you don't know.

 

[tosca1]

It's ok by me if you don't want to be cooperative. I'll just not respond to your posts of excessive text.

Because excessive text that includes evidence...........puts you on the spot. Deer in the headlights!