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How and Why Did the Afghan Army Fall so Quickly to The Taliban?

"IVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THE TELLYTUBBIES AND THEY ASSURE ME NO BLOOD WILL BE SPILLED. TINKYWINKY IS PROVING TO BE VERY TRUSTABLE" ~Biden
 
sanman said:
Trump himself at least spent less time deflecting
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What ****ing administration were you watching from 2016 to 2020? Trump does nothing but blame other people. He blames other people even when there isn't a problem.
 
Phys251 said:
Those are documented dates of what both trump and Biden did. You are arguing against the facts. Cold, hard facts that you refuse to listen to because they don't suit your personal narrative that Donnie Boy had nothing to do with this. :)
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That's nice and all, I'm sure your Democrat allies here love that you are carrying Joe's water but maybe try to go with the OP instead of being the thread blame gamer. Despite your inability to talk about literally anything else, not every thread has to be about Trump.

How and why did the Afghan army surrender so quickly.

Tribal affiliations mean everything, they have no national identity really and they don't respect national borders either. They had nothing to fight for, oppression is all they know, its their status quo. Plus all that equipment we sent them is useless, they could run some of it, they certainly couldn't maintain it.
 
JustAFella said:
What ****ing administration were you watching from 2016 to 2020? Trump does nothing but blame other people. He blames other people even when there isn't a problem.
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Biden is in the Oval Office right now -- the buck stops with him -- the decisions were his.

Dem shills promise all kinds of leadership in exchange for votes, then spend the duration of any term just blaming the previous govt.
 
'Midst all of the palaver, there are a few undeniable facts.

The US military establishment was given the task of developing an Afghan army.
The development process continued through a number of US administrations and cost many billions of dollars.
The Afghan army proved incapable of protecting the 'government' in Kabul.
The Afghan 'government' lost the on-going religious civil war that had been on-going for many decades.
The war in Afghanistan, in almost all of the country, is now over.
US bloodshed in Afghanistan, military and civilian, will now cease for a while.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
 
"The likelihood there’s going to be the Taliban overrunning everything and owning the whole country is highly unlikely.” - Joe Biden, July 8th, 2021.
 
cpwill said:
The Afghan Army spent 7 years fighting after we declared an "end to combat operations" for U.S. forces. It spent a year and a half fighting after we signed a deal with the Taliban to leave the country and abandon them - what, around 50,000 dead?

They then finally collapsed when, abandoned by the U.S. and surrounded, their own government failed to reinforce or resupply them, or even come up with a strategy for retaining control.

This was a long time coming.
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You might want to consider what part the fact that the movers and shakers in the Afghan government were more concerned with gathering up portable valuables and getting their own butts out of Afghanistan than they were is doing anything about the Taliban (or even supporting their own troops) had in the decision of the troops to say "Fuggid" and go home.
 
natman said:
Maybe Trump had a plan for all those things or maybe he didn't. but the fact is that Biden has been President for seven months and there is no indication that he did anything to prepare for a date that was known well in advance.
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No one actually expected the Afghan government to simply loot the country and flee.
 
Integrityrespec said:
More likely Biden couldn't remember he was the President. Biden is clearly not up to the task. He's got less than a week to get ALL Americans out, (that want to leave) plus our allies and vulnerable. And, remember he has to get the troops out as well. We will see.
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Maybe you'd like to tell me what Mr. Trump was doing to get Americans and their Afghan helpers out of the country between the time he signed the surrender documents and inauguration day.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Only to you.
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This is what I said:

Phys251 said:
Those are documented dates of what both trump and Biden did. You are arguing against the facts. Cold, hard facts that you refuse to listen to because they don't suit your personal narrative that Donnie Boy had nothing to do with this. :)
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This is how OC responded:

OpportunityCost said:
That's nice and all, I'm sure your Democrat allies here love that you are carrying Joe's water but maybe try to go with the OP instead of being the thread blame gamer. Despite your inability to talk about literally anything else, not every thread has to be about Trump.

How and why did the Afghan army surrender so quickly.

Tribal affiliations mean everything, they have no national identity really and they don't respect national borders either. They had nothing to fight for, oppression is all they know, its their status quo. Plus all that equipment we sent them is useless, they could run some of it, they certainly couldn't maintain it.
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Because OC cannot admit that Donnie Boy set this whole thing into motion in 2020. :) He has already proven that and will continue to prove it in his next response.
 
Metric Mouse said:
"The likelihood there’s going to be the Taliban overrunning everything and owning the whole country is highly unlikely.” - Joe Biden, July 8th, 2021.
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I guess that Mr. Biden was operating on the assumption that the movers and shakers of the Afghan government were NOT actively preparing to loot the country's assets and then run away as far and as fast as they could.

Possibly he got this impression because that is what the movers and shakers of the Afghan government were telling the US government right from the time that Mr. Trump surrendered.
 
uptower said:
Blame Biden all you like folks. Hell blame trump or obama. Most certainly blame Bush. But either way, it was inevitable

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TU Curmudgeon said:
I guess that Mr. Biden was operating on the assumption that the movers and shakers of the Afghan government were NOT actively preparing to loot the country's assets and then run away as far and as fast as they could.

Possibly he got this impression because that is what the movers and shakers of the Afghan government were telling the US government right from the time that Mr. Trump surrendered.
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Yeah, Biden seemed to be quite fooled.

Not sure why; no one else in the United States intelligence system trusted the Afghan government to hold up; it's one of the reasons most of the military advisors advised against even leaving.
 
Maybe if the Afghan army had been all female, there'd have been more reason to fight. The men of Afghanistan had little to gain from opposing the Taliban and that fact is the most striking point of naivete in our leadership. It takes more than men with weapons to fight a war, it takes a purpose. And, though some may have preferred the way the country performed under American control, they, in their hearts, are Muslim and America represents "The Great Satan". The Taliban, though extreme, is still THEIR team in religious terms.

American conservative religious fanatics consider themselves Christian first, conservative second and American third. Afghan Muslims are no different. Their first loyalty is not to female empowerment or the loosely connected tribal/religious groups that we call the country of Afghanistan.

We were naive to underestimate the power of faith to divide, corrupt and destroy. And, no matter how obvious it is or how many times we're reminded of that fact by the enemy, it's a message that Americans refuse to believe.
 
sanman said:
All you wokesters are doing is reading from the same CYA talking points. None of you ever spoke up against this withdrawal or blamed it on Trump before. You simply didn't care.
It's only when your Sleep Joe & Co screw it up royally, that you're suddenly fearful for Joe's reign, and are now flooding forth to retroactively claim that it was all Trump's fault.
And that's your same tired recipe for every crisis that engulfs Biden -- just blame it all on the previous govt.
Why did you side even run for POTUS this time, if your only plan was to reflexively blame anything and everything on Trump? Obama did the same to Bush.
Trump himself at least spent less time deflecting, and more effort actually solving the situations he was faced with, even thinking out-of-the-box.
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Uh, nobody is speaking up against withdrawal now.

But there is little doubt that the Trump negotiations gave notice to the Taliban, and handed them over a year’s worth of planning time.

While Pompeo was negotiating with Baradar, his boss was going on TV saying the US was going to quit. Which left Trump’s ne2
 
Metric Mouse said:
Yeah, Biden seemed to be quite fooled.

Not sure why; no one else in the United States intelligence system trusted the Afghan government to hold up; it's one of the reasons most of the military advisors advised against even leaving.
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Nobody was fooled. The Pentagon may have publicly overestimated the time it would take, but they were saying when they left it looks like the Taliban will eventually take Kabul. Biden knew it was going to be a mess (if not how much so), and it was still more important to get America out of that mess all the same.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Maybe you'd like to tell me what Mr. Trump was doing to get Americans and their Afghan helpers out of the country between the time he signed the surrender documents and inauguration day.
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That is a really good question seeing in the Agreement He agrees to have all our Troops out in 9 and ahalf months
That would have been last Dec
and if that had happened all this mess would of been in his hands
here is what the agreement said
1) The United States, its allies, and the Coalition will complete withdrawal of all remaining
forces from Afghanistan within the remaining nine and a half (9.5) months

here is the full agreement
have a nice afternoon
 
Why? They were corrupt, disunited, propped up by foreigners, uninvested in national unity, unpatriotic, in some cases sympathetic to the Taliban or not that many degrees removed in their political, religious and social views in any case.

They simply had no will to fight. Half of them can probably get re-employed under the Taliban anyway.
 
sanman said:
Okay, so that's a start -- they each care about their tribe, and wouldn't want to see their own tribe wiped out by Taliban.
That was the case last time too, and Taliban faced tough resistance from all the local tribes.



Many Taliban today only care for their tribe. The Taliban are nearly all from one ethnic group - the Pashtuns.
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Which is why training and equipping local militias would have been a better choice in Afghanistan rather than a national military in which most people had no loyalty to.

That is why the Shia militias in Iraq did better than the Iraqis Army fighting ISIS. It is why Hezbollah did a better job fighting the Israel occupation of south Lebanon than the Lebanese military and why the Kurds have done better than the Iraq or Syrian militaries fighting ISIS despite being equipped with poorer equipment
 
Phys251 said:
This is what I said:



This is how OC responded:



Because OC cannot admit that Donnie Boy set this whole thing into motion in 2020. :) He has already proven that and will continue to prove it in his next response.
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The way it was executed is the problem. You are deflecting and its obvious you are deflecting.
 
sanman said:
Dem shills promise all kinds of leadership in exchange for votes, then spend the duration of any term just blaming the previous govt.
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Yeah, Trump never did that. How is that wall, btw? Or the replacement for Obamacare? Or your infrastructure bill?
 
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