House committee in Florida passes 'Don't Say Gay' bill

[bomberfox]

I don't live in FL, so I couldn't say?

So you are assuming for the sake of argument that there are benign reasons for this bill?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Teachers are preparing to leave, and I don't mean 1 or 2.

Poor pay and terrible working conditions are one thing, loss of classroom sovereignty is another. With almost no inflow into college teaching programs, we are going to see teacher shortage's increase. If I had a dollar for every parent who falsely claimed they were going to send their kids to private school or homeschool them, pay would not be an issue.

A nation funds its' priorities. Education is not a priority in America.

There are days when I am strongly tempted to believe that "Education is an anti-priority in America.".

For the "movers and shakers" education IS a priority for the children of the "movers and shakers class", but for the children of others it is an impediment to the fulfillment of the desires of the "movers and shakers class". For the children of those who do not belong to the "movers and shakers class" a docile, unquestioning, and status-accepting" nature is much preferable to having children who are "informed, questioning, and equality of opportunity seeking".

 

[Maccabee]

Have you ever been in a classroom?

No, teachers do not lead discussions on student crushes., ever. That would be completely inappropriate.

Why?

 

[uptower]

Normalizing the abnormal isn't a sound practice.

You don't know what what the **** 'normal' is.

 

[mrjurrs]

There are days when I am strongly tempted to believe that "Education is an anti-priority in America.".

For the "movers and shakers" education IS a priority for the children of the "movers and shakers class", but for the children of others it is an impediment to the fulfillment of the desires of the "movers and shakers class". For the children of those who do not belong to the "movers and shakers class" a docile, unquestioning, and status-accepting" nature is much preferable to having children who are "informed, questioning, and equality of opportunity seeking".

A problem with the movers and shakers is that they also have the income to live in better school districts or move their kid to private schools.

I don't disagree with your occasional sentiment, I join you far too often for my liking.

 

[dcsports]

Why?

Why shouldn't teachers lead classroom discussions about their student's relationships? lol.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

A problem with the movers and shakers is that they also have the income to live in better school districts or move their kid to private schools.

I don't disagree with your occasional sentiment, I join you far too often for my liking.

Well, it isn't a problem FOR the "movers and shakers" and if everyone else didn't choose to live in those school districts or didn't choose to send their kids to private schools (average tuition $12,350 a year) then it wouldn't be a problem for those who were not "movers and shakers" either - would it?

[The above has been specifically and officially approved and endorsed by "Devoted Online Lovers of Trump" Inc. (a non-partisan, independent, research and analysis organization exempt from federal taxation that is dedicated to bringing you the true truth and not the false truth that anyone who doesn't believe 100% of what Donald Trump {BBHN} says tries to tell you the so-called "facts" are), "Pro-Life United Gun Enthusiasts and Manufacturers for Jesus", and “"The ‘First Amendment Rights Trust’ Foundation”.]

 

[Maccabee]

Why shouldn't teachers lead classroom discussions about their student's relationships? lol.

Not their students relationships per se. I'm not not advocating Mrs. Johnson to announce to the class that Billy has a crush on Tommy. However a general discussion on how crushes work and how to go from there should be taught in schools.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Yes, they are. And what you are wanting is no different, you want YOUR brand of "insert social agenda" taught in a public school setting.
just teach Math, Reading, Writing.

Currently they are failing to do so at acceptable levels.

Math, reading, and writing are foundational skills but hardly sufficient for even an elementary education.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Math, reading, and writing are foundational skills but hardly sufficient for even an elementary education.

True, and, unfortunately, the American educational system is doing a really poor job of teaching those foundational skills.

Part of the reason for that is that it is possible to actually give objectively determined grades for those subjects and where you can have objectively determined grades you can have objectively determined assessments of whether or not the student has actually managed the required material, and where you can have objectively determined assessments of whether or not the student has actually managed the required material you can have students who "F■■l" and that makes it difficult for you to pass kids on to the next grade so that they do not f■■l bad.

 

[Peacenik]

But once again, none of your business to interfere with no matter how badly you wish to.

It's national business. Hatred is a national problem. Our society is bound to be more accepting of orientation diversity when our young citizens are familiar with it. By teaching this in schools, our nation is reducing hate attacks in the future.

 

[Cope]

True, and, unfortunately, the American educational system is doing a really poor job of teaching those foundational skills.

Part of the reason for that is that it is possible to actually give objectively determined grades for those subjects and where you can have objectively determined grades you can have objectively determined assessments of whether or not the student has actually managed the required material, and where you can have objectively determined assessments of whether or not the student has actually managed the required material you can have students who "F■■l" and that makes it difficult for you to pass kids on to the next grade so that they do not f■■l bad.

This is true enough, it is also a good argument for teachers to not be adding things to the curriculum other than the objectively defined things that they are already failing to teach (and actually I can't put that on all the teachers) but certainly students aren't learning.

 

[mrdeltoid]

Republicans do not have any problems with "Black Republicans" or "Gay Republicans", they just don't want them living in their neighborhoods or them having anything to do with their children or to associate with them socially.

Republicans do not have any problems with "Black Republicans" or "Gay Republicans", they just don't want them living in their neighborhoods or them having anything to do with their children or to associate with them socially.

Link?

 

[RealityNow]

Maybe those people who are afraid to have human sexuality discussed in school, is for fear some of the kids will turn them in for having sexually abused them.

Those kind of people who continue to live the lies of their own denialisms, yet, no matter how much they deny, time continues to show they commit some of the most atrocious acts ever in the history of human existence.

 

[Cope]

It's national business. Hatred is a national problem. Our society is bound to be more accepting of orientation diversity when our young citizens are familiar with it. By teaching this in schools, our nation is reducing hate attacks in the future.

If stopping hatred was of primary importance, we wouldn't have two polarized political parties, with stances, who try to demonize the other (and all the constituents at every chance). Or try to split people by racial divide or haves and have nots.
It's all divisive.

 

[tres borrachos]

T

There are also a plethora of ignorant teachers with an agenda who would love to teach our kids how they should explore being non-binary and experiment with the same sex if they they see fit, even if said kids never mention feeling a certain way.

Sure there are. Did Hannity tell you that?

 

[j brown's body]

States that pass laws criminalizing teaching, particularly topics that threaten the dominant culture, are generally authoritarian. This is sort of thing one would find in Russia or Nazi Germany.

It is always defended as the "will of the people" and in this case the people are are "parents." It is the will of the parents - dominant culture parents who feel threatened

Interesting that the common denominator in these cases is the threat of gays. For us, we can add race, although that certainly could extend to the Nazis as well.

Florida used to root out and fire gay teachers. It used to teach that racial segregation is right and normal. No doubt then, as now, politicians argued that it was the will of the people - expsoecially the parents, that thesevpolicies existed.

I dunno, but it seems unlikely that many people look back on this repression and bigotry with any pride, which makes it all the more perplexing that people support it now.

What truly adds an element of irony to it all is that it's the conservatives and libertarians who claim that they don't trust government who are so supportive of this now.

 

[j brown's body]

If stopping hatred was of primary importance, we wouldn't have two polarized political parties, with stances, who try to demonize the other (and all the constituents at every chance). Or try to split people by racial divide or haves and have nots.
It's all divisive.

Or split people between straights and gays, which is what this law does.

 

[Cope]

Or split people between straights and gays, which is what this law does.

No, it doesn't.

 

[Peacenik]

If stopping hatred was of primary importance, we wouldn't have two polarized political parties, with stances, who try to demonize the other (and all the constituents at every chance). Or try to split people by racial divide or haves and have nots.
It's all divisive.

That is whataboutism.

Our nation has an interest in reducing hatred. It is absurd to argue in favor of hatred. We must teach our young what they need to know to reduce hatred. If hateful parents object that's just too darn bad. They shouldn't. Hatred is wrong. We want it gone.

This isn't a this-side / that-side kind of a thing. It is what is right, and what is wrong. Hatred is wrong. It's not going away by itself. Our government needs to take action.

 

[The Mark]

I seem to remember this Amendment that said, “Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech…”

But this isn't congress, and I don't know what the Florida constitution or main guiding documents/laws say.

And they'd probably argue that they're not abridging freedom of speech, they're abridging freedom to teach in the schools they have authority over.

 

[Peacenik]

States that pass laws criminalizing teaching, particularly topics that threaten the dominant culture, are generally authoritarian. This is sort of thing one would find in Russia or Nazi Germany.

It is always defended as the "will of the people" and in this case the people are are "parents." It is the will of the parents - dominant culture parents who feel threatened

Interesting that the common denominator in these cases is the threat of gays. For us, we can add race, although that certainly could extend to the Nazis as well.

Florida used to root out and fire gay teachers. It used to teach that racial segregation is right and normal. No doubt then, as now, politicians argued that it was the will of the people - expsoecially the parents, that thesevpolicies existed.

I dunno, but it seems unlikely that many people look back on this repression and bigotry with any pride, which makes it all the more perplexing that people support it now.

What truly adds an element of irony to it all is that it's the conservatives and libertarians who claim that they don't trust government who are so supportive of this now.

Republicans want to control what people believe. They don't want to allow people the freedom to believe stuff other than what they believe. They're pissed off at themselves because they lost the gay marriage battle. They refuse to accept it, so they are pathetically trying to do whatever they can to limit understanding of the 'forbidden knowledge.' (They call this 'owning the libs.') It really is shameful, and as you say, highly ironic coming from the same people who argue for 'personal freedoms.'

It is mind boggling why people can't just live and let live!

People who are different aren't doing anything to Republicans.

But it's no mystery where stuff like this comes from.

Republicans + [Tucker Carlson and the like] = hatred.

Sadly, the equation holds true.

 

[RealityNow]

States that pass laws criminalizing teaching, particularly topics that threaten the dominant culture, are generally authoritarian. This is sort of thing one would find in Russia or Nazi Germany.

It is always defended as the "will of the people" and in this case the people are are "parents." It is the will of the parents - dominant culture parents who feel threatened

Interesting that the common denominator in these cases is the threat of gays. For us, we can add race, although that certainly could extend to the Nazis as well.

Florida used to root out and fire gay teachers. It used to teach that racial segregation is right and normal. No doubt then, as now, politicians argued that it was the will of the people - expsoecially the parents, that thesevpolicies existed.

I dunno, but it seems unlikely that many people look back on this repression and bigotry with any pride, which makes it all the more perplexing that people support it now.

What truly adds an element of irony to it all is that it's the conservatives and libertarians who claim that they don't trust government who are so supportive of this now.

It's the evilness that the long history of White Nationalist Ideals and Delusion of Superiority has bred and fed into these people. It's made them think they are some fictional role model for society, as they think they have the right to dictate what is and is not acceptable in society, and they have the delusion to think they can ration to society only what they think society can have and what it can encompass.

It's the same groomed in superiority mentality delusion that has these kind of white people thinking they are Immune from COVID. The history of white nationalist delusions of superiority, has had these kind of people "lying and denying" for centuries and decades, and when caught, busted and exposed, they try and lie their way out and then want to play victim, when they are exposed for the history of their victimizations and savage acts they have engaged and done to others.

We've seen and we continue to see more and more women coming forward everyday, finding the courage to speak about the sexual abuse they endured in their youthful years, we see continually women being kidnapped, molested and raped, killed, and even dismembered when they choose not to want to submit to these type of men who have that delusion of superiority, as if these men think women are their possessions. We see the women of such type who repeatedly engage men sexually, and when they don't get what they expected to get, they come back and claim it was abuse, yet they kept repeatedly going back, sometimes for years and decades, then claiming they are not responsible for their own actions and indulgences.

America saw overtly 100 yrs of this kind of mentality in the Jim Crow Court Rooms. These were the same people both on trial and in the jury who congregated in the right wing white evangelical churches, committing to their racial segregationist ideology, their hate mentality of people who did not put on the public pretense they expected, as if they expected everyone to be public liars as they were.
When fact is, the right wing white evangelical churches were with many child molesters, rapist, murderers of non white people, discriminating people who did so in public, on jobs and in business habits.

We saw these people back and support Trumpism with no regard for the atrocities that were exposed of Trump, all they care about was if Trump was going to help them not pay taxes and ways to fleece more money from society. These are the type of people who idolize criminals like Bonnie and Clyde, They are idolizers of the drunkards seen in TV Westerns Movies where the Saloon was always a centerpiece and gun-slinging and killing was the general theme.

Habits tell a lot more about people; far much than what people think they can hide... lie about and deny.

 

[j brown's body]

No, it doesn't.

The "Don't say Gay" bill doesn't divide gay from straight?

 

[dcsports]

Not their students relationships per se. I'm not not advocating Mrs. Johnson to announce to the class that Billy has a crush on Tommy. However a general discussion on how crushes work and how to go from there should be taught in schools.

That's exactly what you were suggesting - at least that's how it appeared.

Education on 'crushes' certainly could be a part of an approved sex education course appropriate for the age. Is it appropriate for a math or English teacher to start up a conversation on grade school crushes? Absolutely not.