'Horrifying': Intel Experts Fear The Human Costs Of Trump's Document Handling

[Tbird19482]

I get your point, but this assumes that just anyone has access to a device as narrow as the one pictured.

a very slim screwdriver will also work . these types of locks are not hard to to unlock
and even if they had regular keyed locks that take regular keys or electronic locks master Keys can be made ( most have at least one ) that can be copied and with what a hundred or more people working at MAL there might be one and as I said who knows who got a hold of one and made a copy,
in these cases MAL was NOT that secure
Have a nice day

 

[Cardinal]

a very slim screwdriver will also work . these types of locks are not hard to to unlock
Have a nice day

You’d have to be some kind of tool nut to find such a screwdriver.

 

[Tbird19482]

You’d have to be some kind of tool nut to find such a screwdriver.

well I like a lot of other guys have a small all purpose tool in my pocket right now that has a 3 small screwdriver on it one very small and small knives and a pair of scissors and a 5/16 / 11/32 / 3/8 inch wrenches on it ( just looked at it to check the sizes of the wrenches )
they are out there and it has come in handy at times
Have a nice day

 

[Tbird19482]

well I like a lot of other guys have a small all purpose tool in my pocket right now that has a 3 small screwdriver on it one very small and small knives and a pair of scissors and a 5/16 / 11/32 / 3/8 inch wrenches on it ( just looked at it to check the sizes of the wrenches )
they are out there and it has come in handy at times
Have a nice day

and in my tool box in the garage I have at least 5 or 6 small screwdrivers small enough to open a lock like that, and if I worked at MAL why couldn't I take a small on that is about 2 inches long to work and use it to get into places like this ?
have a nice day

 

[Cardinal]

well I like a lot of other guys have a small all purpose tool in my pocket right now that has a 3 small screwdriver on it one very small and small knives and a pair of scissors and a 5/16 / 11/32 / 3/8 inch wrenches on it ( just looked at it to check the sizes of the wrenches )
they are out there and it has come in handy at times
Have a nice day

Actually so do I, but the locking mechanism of the average bathroom door is extremely sophisticated. You could try using such a screwdriver, but it would almost certainly fail. One could reasonably call that bathroom the most secure place on earth.

 

[Rexedgar]

I get your point, but this assumes that just anyone has access to a device as narrow as the one pictured.

Paperclips not a thing anymore?

 

[Cardinal]

Paperclips not a thing anymore?

Like people just carry paper clips around with them all day.

I wonder if satirizing Mccarthy’s stupidity for too long carrie’s the risk of actually becoming as stupid as him. I should probably slow my roll.

 

[Tbird19482]

Actually so do I, but the locking mechanism of the average bathroom door is extremely sophisticated. You could try using such a screwdriver, but it would almost certainly fail. One could reasonably call that bathroom the most secure place on earth.

I don't know , I have used this one to open locks like that before and it wasn't so hard, especially using the really really thin one,
Grandkids have locked them selves in several time , got sick of it and changed the lock to a regular keyed one.
back years ago when my autistic son was young we put reg. keyed locks on all the doors in the house and put the key up high on the door molding so if he did lock himself in we could just take down the key open the door and let him out
Have a nice day

 

[Cardinal]

I don't know , I have used this one to open locks like that before and it wasn't so hard, especially using the really really thin one,
Grandkids have locked them selves in several time , got sick of it and changed the lock to a regular keyed one.
back years ago when my autistic son was young we put reg. keyed locks on all the doors in the house and put the key up high on the door molding so if he did lock himself in we could just take down the key open the door and let him out
Have a nice day

I guess so long as all of the spies and foreign nationals who visited MAL were autistic then our secrets were never in any danger.

 

[Tbird19482]

I guess so long as all of the spies and foreign nationals who visited MAL were autistic then our secrets were in no danger.

I am just saying in a place like MAL there are keys all over the place and in most places like that ( motels / hotels / resorts ) there are master keys ( the cleaning crew usually has one ) , and master keys like any other key can have copies , and we don't know in this case how many there could be ,and people working there could have slipped out a master and made a copy or several and been able to use it when they needed .
Have a nice day

 

[Cardinal]

I am just saying in a place like MAL there are keys all over the place and in most places like that ( motels / hotels / resorts ) there are master keys ( the cleaning crew usually has one ) , and master keys like any other key can have copies , and we don't know in this case how many there could be ,and people working there could have slipped out a master and made a copy or several and been able to use it when they needed .
Have a nice day

The only important question here is this: would Judge Cannon find the “bathrooms have locks” argument compelling?

The dynamics of his upcoming trial and both of his impeachments are lining up eerily.

 

[Captain Mars]

Here’s a standard restroom lock and “key.”

View attachment 67453060View attachment 67453061

If you don't have one of those, a glass cutter or a rock will work on the window.

 

[snakestretcher]

They already were. Nobody trusted Trump.

They have a lot more confidence in Biden, Bugt after George W Bush and trump, they’re wary of Americans in general.

Trump went out of his way to insult and demean America's long standing friends and allies. Why, is a mystery-but at a guess I'd say it's because he's an ignorant gobshite narcissist.

How an Isolated Trump Insulted Allies and Dismissed the World at UN

President Donald Trump arrived at the United Nations this week looking to rally global support against Iran and show that his policies on North Korea were lowering the risk of nuclear war.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[snakestretcher]

Post #40 already did.

The allegation isn't simply that he didn't return the documents upon request, it's also that his possession was unauthorized.
Otherwise, so what the government wants it?

Government has to prove as well that his possession of the documents was unauthorized. That is part of the statute.

Trump already admitted, on tape, that he was in possession of classified materials which he was unable to declassify-while showing them off to all and sundry. You aren't aware of this? "So what..." that the government wants top secret documents that could compromise national security kept secure? Are you ****ing serious? The government has all the proof it needs-and from the idiot's own stupid self-incriminating mouth. The mere fact that those materials were removed to unsecure locations is itself a flagrant breach of the law. I guess you don't know that either.

 

[Tbird19482]

The only important question here is this: would Judge Cannon find the “bathrooms have locks” argument compelling?

The dynamics of his upcoming trial and both of his impeachments are lining up eerily.

You ae right he may say okay they were locked , but then he should also look at it as locks have keys and where are all the keys . who has / had them and ask if there could have been copies made and if there were where are they? ( NOBODY knows for sure )
as I said most places like MAL have masters that the cleaning staff have , and with that fact they have to ask were any of them copied ?
and yes it is going to be " eerily "
Trumps team will have to some how prove that they know where all the keys are , who has them , do they have a clearance to be able to be in contact with such highly classified material and that NO copies were made,
and I don't think they can ,
and that alone SHOULD put those questions into the minds of all reasonable people.
Have a nice day

 

[Cardinal]

You ae right he may say okay they were locked , but then he should also look at it as locks have keys and where are all the keys . who has / had them and ask if there could have been copies made and if there were where are they? ( NOBODY knows for sure )
as I said most places like MAL have masters that the cleaning staff have , and with that fact they have to ask were any of them copied ?
and yes it is going to be " eerily "
Trumps team will have to some how prove that they know where all the keys are , who has them , do they have a clearance to be able to be in contact with such highly classified material and that NO copies were made,
and I don't think they can ,
and that alone SHOULD put those questions into the minds of all reasonable people.
Have a nice day

Maybe I've just too dead pan in this thread, but I was satirizing McCarthy's comment. It's so stupid that it doesn't merit the kind of serious response you've given here, so I've moved on to an entirely separate point: is this stupid "bathrooms have locks" argument the kind of thing that that Cannon would find compelling? Because once you learn the kind of person she is and the powers she has over this trial, she is effectively the jurist in this instance, and Republicans are making arguments knowing she's listening.

This is why I'm saying that parallels between this upcoming trial and both impeachments are lining up. If you want to acquit the accused, any argument will do.

Before I mocked conservatives by saying something like "too bad Trump can't plead 'but Hillary'" at his trial. Now I'm not certain about that at all. It is extremely likely that Hillary and Biden will likewise be on trial, even if they haven't been indicted and won't be present at Trump's trial.

 

[snakestretcher]

The only important question here is this: would Judge Cannon find the “bathrooms have locks” argument compelling?

The dynamics of his upcoming trial and both of his impeachments are lining up eerily.

Unlikely, if she has any sense. Whether locked away or not, those classified materials had no business being kept anywhere but NARA-and especially not in a golf resort toilet; unless Trump wanted his guests to have some interesting reading matter while taking a dump.

 

[Tbird19482]

Maybe I've just too dead pan in this thread, but I was satirizing McCarthy's comment. It's so stupid that it doesn't the kind of serious response you've given here, so I've moved on to an entirely separate point: is this stupid "bathrooms have locks" argument the kind of thing that that Cannon would find compelling? Because once you learn the kind of person she is and the powers she has over this trial, she is effectively the jurist in this instance, and Republicans are making arguments knowing she's listening.

This is why I'm saying that parallels between this upcoming trial and both impeachments are lining up. If you want to acquit the accused, any argument will do.

Before I mocked conservatives by saying something like "too bad Trump can't plead 'but Hillary'" at his trial. Now I'm not certain about that at all. It is extremely likely that Hillary and Biden will likewise be on trial, even if they haven't been indicted and won't be present at Trump's trial.

Well I can see her saying something like yes the doors have locks and NOT going into the question about who has, . or where are all the keys and if there could have been copies made and that SHOULD be one of the biggest questions the Trump team is asked if they bring that up.
Have a nice day

 

[Cardinal]

Unlikely, if she has any sense. Whether locked away or not, those classified materials had no business being kept anywhere but NARA-and especially not in a golf resort toilet; unless Trump wanted his guests to have some interesting reading matter while taking a dump.

As I said, if you're committed to acquitting somebody, any argument will do. Why am I this paranoid? Because when she presided over the lawsuit Trump brought to stop the FBI from investigating him, she determined that an ex President should not be investigated, and promptly cancelled the investigation. Her ruling was precisely as cartoonish as I just made it sound.

 

[snakestretcher]

As I said, if you're committed to acquitting somebody, any argument will do. Why am I this paranoid? Because when she presided over the lawsuit Trump brought to stop the FBI from investigating him, she determined that an ex President should not be investigated, and promptly cancelled the investigation. Her ruling was precisely as cartoonish as I just made it sound.

That's not good. Her job isn't to voice personal opinions about who should or should not be investigated. She can't be so dumb as to assume an ex-president, now a mere civilian, should be afforded special privileges the rest of the citizenry don't have the luxury of.

 

[Cardinal]

That's not good. Her job isn't to voice personal opinions about who should or should not be investigated. She can't be so dumb as to mistake an ex-president, now just a civilian like anyone else-with a sitting president.

Dominant in MAGA conservative thought is the idea that Trump can't be tried for any crimes because Clinton wasn't. If Cannon is MAGA, and by all appearances she is, there are numerous ways she can sabotage the trial by doing completely normal judge stuff. Saying that ex Presidents can't be investigated is not normal judge stuff. But you know what is?

1) Determining what the defendant can be called. If she decides that Trump is to be referred to as The President of the United States, she can do that.
2) Determining what is "for cause" in the prosecution calling for the dismissal of jury candidates they believe cannot be impartial.
3) Determine how quickly or slowly the trial runs.
4) Determine the admissibility of evidence.
5) Rule on pre-trial motions, such as whether the indictment was political in nature and whether Trump was selectively prosecuted. In other words, she can bring into trial that stupid "Two tiered justice system" argument Republicans keep going on about.
6) Demand that more classified information be declassified, which carries the risk of jeopardizing national security and ongoing investigations. It's possible that this demand could be so galling to the DOJ that they'd determine it be best if he just wasn't prosecuted at all.
7) And last but absolutely not least...and I just learned about this...she can make a "Rule 29 acquittal." She can unilaterally decide which of the charges have merit, and simply acquit Trump on them if she so pleases. She can effectively make this a bench trial regardless of the presence of 12 jurors.

So the question is this: will she do normal judge stuff or not-normal judge stuff to blow up the trial? Did she learn last year that doing not-normal judge stuff was stupid and ultimately ineffective, and that she has plenty of completely legitimate powers at her disposal on this merry go round? I suspect she will. If she does something as stupid as "ex-Presidents can be investigated" again then the Prosecution will jump on that shit so fast it'll make her head spin.

 

[Athanasius68]

Trump already admitted, on tape, that he was in possession of classified materials which he was unable to declassify-while showing them off to all and sundry. You aren't aware of this? "So what..." that the government wants top secret documents that could compromise national security kept secure? Are you ****ing serious? The government has all the proof it needs-and from the idiot's own stupid self-incriminating mouth. The mere fact that those materials were removed to unsecure locations is itself a flagrant breach of the law. I guess you don't know that either.

I am sure it does.
Like I said, and for which many on this thread have disputed, it is a crime to have unauthorized possession of such documents in an unsecure location.

Returning them (the defense that the Biden folks use to try to clear his name) upon request doesn't change this.

 

[Athanasius68]

Dominant in MAGA conservative thought is the idea that Trump can't be tried for any crimes because Clinton wasn't.

That isn't quite the argument.

It's that Clinton wasn't charged when she faced substantively the same allegations as Trump.

 

[Cardinal]

That isn't quite the argument.

It's that Clinton wasn't charged when she faced substantively the same allegations as Trump.

"That isn't the conservative argument, but it's absolutely the conservative argument."

 

[trouble13]

What say ye now Marco Rubio


'Horrifying': Intel Experts Fear The Human Costs Of Trump's Document Handling

Some of the compromised documents seized at his Florida country club included information from intel officers and foreign agents working on behalf of the U.S.
WASHINGTON ― Donald Trump’s haphazard storage of sensitive documents at his Florida country club could have endangered the lives of American intelligence officers as well as their foreign sources, according to experts and legal filings, contrary to the claims by some Republicans that the withheld papers posed a minimal threat to national security.

As the former president and his allies complain about Trump’s unfair “persecution” by the Department of Justice, getting lost in the noise are the potentially grave consequences that may have already been suffered by actual human beings working abroad on behalf of the United States.

“When I look at the complaint, I don’t just see an itemization of particular documents. I see the people who gather this information in the U.S., our allies, our intelligence assets who put their lives at risk,” said Norm Eisen, a former ambassador who held a top security clearance and who, as a White House lawyer in Barack Obama’s administration, also helped draft classification rules.

“The notion that Donald Trump could store those in ballrooms and bathrooms, where these secrets might spill onto the floor, as depicted in one photo, is horrifying to anyone who has any national security experience,” Eisen said.

It’s difficult to draw firm conclusions regarding the damage caused by Trump’s brazenly careless handling of the documents, stored in disorganized cardboard boxes left on a ballroom stage, in a storage room and in a bathroom. The legally mandated secrecy of the intelligence community’s work, and a reluctance by President Joe Biden’s administration to fully engage on the matter, leaves many questions about what the easily accessible documents may have ultimately done to American national security. However, experts say what we do know is alarming.

One former top Trump White House official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the language in the indictment unveiled last week led him to believe actual humans have already been put at risk by Trump’s actions. “It’s a very good conclusion. And it’s logical, but I don’t think it’s certain,” he said.

'Horrifying': Intel Experts Fear The Human Costs Of Trump's Document Handling

Some of the compromised documents seized at his Florida country club included information from intel officers and foreign agents working on behalf of the U.S.

www.huffpost.com

I'm horrified by this information! Absolutely horrified I tell you!

Why he didn't store them safely in his garage and satellite offices like Biden is beyond me.

There just aren't any words to do justice to the horror I feel.