High School Boy Wins All-State Honors In Girls Track And Field

[chromium]

The boy from my old HS just won the state tennis title. He will play D-1 Tennis next year and the boy who was RU as a freshman (he no longer goes to a normal HS since he is home tutored so can play on the international circuit) is even better and has already signed with Ohio States as a rising senior Yet neither of these two boys would make it even past the first qualifying round of a major men's pro tournament.

but why bother? the French open is paying the women the same as the men and both of these boys -one who already is serving at 135 MPH at 6-4, 180 pounds-and is world ranked in junior men-would go right through Serena Williams or Garbine Muguruzza who both will earn over 500K for being in the ladies final tomorrow. So this boy ought to claim he feels like a girl and enter the US Open women's event this fall and make over a million dollars. He's even more likely to crush any of the women on that hard court surface given his second serve is faster than 95% of the top women's first serves

if they don't have a documented history of seeking treatment such as HRT, such a claim would likely to be dismissed as fraudulent. This is just a variation on the lie that 'bathroom bills' are meant to protect against fake transgenders. If that were truly a concern, just pass a law against non transgender in opposite sex restrooms and competitions

besides, a minor student at a public school has rights beyond a private association like pro tennis

 

[Absentglare]

I'd bet they could give participation trophies to all the broken-hearted snowflakes.

 

[chromium]

Ah, but there's a problem with your premise see. How does one identify as female if gender cannot be so narrowly defined by sex. I ask any and all who wish to weigh in, what exactly is a female, or a male for that matter? In order to identify as something, wouldn't one logically first define what that something is All these progressives that are championing this nonsense are quick to say that a man can identify as a woman, but in order to do so, one has to first acknowledge that being male, and being female are (according to the social scientists) inandofthemselves not real things..

There's an old axiom in logic: The truth of the premise assures the truth of the conclusion.

Any takers?


Tim-

it's a real cultural construct and don't pretend you don't know the diff

female sex = vagina

female gender = pink dresses and barbies

a FtM would change whatever to fit into a male construct. Are there people who act and appear completely outside these binaries? Yes, and they're typically shunned. It's all about finding a combination that allows both comfort and conforming

 

[TurtleDude]

I'd bet they could give participation trophies to all the broken-hearted snowflakes.

I got to know a man who posted on another board. He came to the USA because his medical woes were better treated here than in Australia-according to him, his kidney issues ultimately killed him but before he died-he had put his sons through prestigious universities-one, at least was doctor-trained at Harvard IIRC (acceptance rate-about 4%).

he said something I will never forget

A country that tells all its children that they are winners will become a nation of losers and failures

so true.

 

[Eric7216]

Teen Male Dominates Girls Track And Field | The Daily Caller

"Haines senior Nattaphon Wangyot advanced to the state finals in the 100-meter and 200-meter events. He won fifth place in the 100-meter dash and third place in the 200-meter. In both events, he competed against girls as young as ninth grade.

One of the girls Wangyot beat out for a slot at the state meet, Hutchison runner Emma Daniels, took issue with allowing a male athlete to compete in girls events.

“I’m glad that this person is comfortable with who they are and they’re able to be happy in who they are, but I don’t think it’s competitively completely 100-percent fair,” she told a local CBS station."


Thoughts?

May get interesting. An Oregon person just had the courts declared him/her of "non-binary" sexual type. Not female or male. I suspect that sexual identity is on a continuum and while most of us are either male or female there are more than we probably thought who are somewhere in the middle ground and not real clear on whether male or female. Since this is the case, the logic of having segregated male or female sports teams seems odd. And probably demeaning to people in the middle. Having a female team perhaps advantages people who are closer to male genetically. In 50 years, the idea of female teams may seem as odd as having a Negro Baseball League. Time to end separate but equal gender segregation.

 

[Celebrity]

Oh, that really clears it up. I was wondering what the hell was going on at my grocery. I think there might be a non-binary employee.

Ironically, being a winner nowadays sometimes means being fluid, even when one wants to be a winning, white male at the finish line.

 

[Hicup]

it's a real cultural construct and don't pretend you don't know the diff

female sex = vagina

female gender = pink dresses and barbies

a FtM would change whatever to fit into a male construct. Are there people who act and appear completely outside these binaries? Yes, and they're typically shunned. It's all about finding a combination that allows both comfort and conforming

Oh make no mistake, I know the "diff", but here's the rub, I can't define it, I just know it when I see it. I can't define male anymore than I can female. There are males that want to become females so that they can have lesbian sex with females> Which follows, wait, no it's rare that females want to become male to have sex with males.. So why is that? What is it about our sex, or our identity of our sex that compels us to make a change that, in reality is not necessary? I don't know the answer but it sure as hell doesn't seem normal?


Tim-

 

[ajn678]

May get interesting. An Oregon person just had the courts declared him/her of "non-binary" sexual type. Not female or male. I suspect that sexual identity is on a continuum and while most of us are either male or female there are more than we probably thought who are somewhere in the middle ground and not real clear on whether male or female. Since this is the case, the logic of having segregated male or female sports teams seems odd. And probably demeaning to people in the middle. Having a female team perhaps advantages people who are closer to male genetically. In 50 years, the idea of female teams may seem as odd as having a Negro Baseball League. Time to end separate but equal gender segregation.

No they won't. Men will always be more physically capable in sports than women.

 

[Grand Mal]

Oh, that really clears it up. I was wondering what the hell was going on at my grocery. I think there might be a non-binary employee.

Ironically, being a winner nowadays sometimes means being fluid, even when one wants to be a winning, white male at the finish line.

May get interesting. An Oregon person just had the courts declared him/her of "non-binary" sexual type. Not female or male. I suspect that sexual identity is on a continuum and while most of us are either male or female there are more than we probably thought who are somewhere in the middle ground and not real clear on whether male or female. Since this is the case, the logic of having segregated male or female sports teams seems odd. And probably demeaning to people in the middle. Having a female team perhaps advantages people who are closer to male genetically. In 50 years, the idea of female teams may seem as odd as having a Negro Baseball League. Time to end separate but equal gender segregation.

Sports teams are segregated to allow girls to compete. Above about age 12, without segregation only exceptional female athletes would get to play. Just the way it is. Women's track and field results in the Olympics are roughly equal to high-school boys.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

it's a real cultural construct and don't pretend you don't know the diff

female sex = vagina

female gender = pink dresses and barbies

a FtM would change whatever to fit into a male construct. Are there people who act and appear completely outside these binaries? Yes, and they're typically shunned. It's all about finding a combination that allows both comfort and conforming

I dont get why... instead of chosing "A skirt can be masculine" you instead chose to take the winding mountain road to say "If you wear a dress your gender is female"

 

[chromium]

Oh make no mistake, I know the "diff", but here's the rub, I can't define it, I just know it when I see it. I can't define male anymore than I can female. There are males that want to become females so that they can have lesbian sex with females> Which follows, wait, no it's rare that females want to become male to have sex with males.. So why is that? What is it about our sex, or our identity of our sex that compels us to make a change that, in reality is not necessary? I don't know the answer but it sure as hell doesn't seem normal?


Tim-

No one gets a sex change to have lesbian sex. They do it because they don't want a penis any more, because psychologically they identify with the opposite sex. 1/3 of them know this by age 5, well before the sex act is even a consideration. It seems to me that our anatomy and gender conformity are both key to our core being. If it doesn't align, people can become dysfunction and self esteem suffers

Most of the MtF (like jenner) will still have female partners because they were born attracted to females. A sex change cannot alter orientation

it doesn't seem normal to you for the same reason you fall back on judgments like "not necessary." To them, it is necessary. If you want an actual reason, some of the studies blame white matter in brain regions that resemble the brain of opposite sex (parietal-frontal lobe connections)

there's more of a desire among scientists to identify trans people at a young age, because they could then delay puberty to ensure that a later sex change goes well. Believe it or not, they expect to identify transgenders by age 2-3

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/

 

[dirtpoorchris]

No one gets a sex change to have lesbian sex. They do it because they don't want a penis any more, because psychologically they identify with the opposite sex. 1/3 of them know this by age 5, well before the sex act is even a consideration. It seems to me that our anatomy and gender conformity are both key to our core being. If it doesn't align, people can become dysfunction and self esteem suffers

Most of the MtF (like jenner) will still have female partners because they were born attracted to females. A sex change cannot alter orientation

it doesn't seem normal to you for the same reason you fall back on judgments like "not necessary." To them, it is necessary. If you want an actual reason, some of the studies blame white matter in brain regions that resemble the brain of opposite sex (parietal-frontal lobe connections)

there's more of a desire among scientists to identify trans people at a young age, because they could then delay puberty to ensure that a later sex change goes well. Believe it or not, they expect to identify transgenders by age 2-3

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/

Are you sure thats not just what you want it to be? Why cant a dress be masculine?

 

[chromium]

Are you sure thats not just what you want it to be? Why cant a dress be masculine?

omg do you know what cultural construct means? I do not define the prevailing culture. It's not up to me

 

[Eric7216]

No they won't. Men will always be more physically capable in sports than women.

Don't be such a sexist. Men and women were much more equal 50,000 years ago before social conventions led to differentiation in gender roles and a change in gender physiology. Women were cutting the gap between performance in recent years (think Florence Griffith Joyner, Nancy Lieberman and Cheryl Miller) before the separate but equal status became established. There is a gap but much of it is long term socialization.

And that wasn't my point. There is some wrong in having separate but equal status while rewarding those females who are most male without being male.

 

[Black Dog]

Don't be such a sexist. Men and women were much more equal 50,000 years ago before social conventions led to differentiation in gender roles and a change in gender physiology.

Absolutely not. My info from college may be out of date in anthropology, but that is just not true. Men and women are physically different even down to brain structure and always have been. This is why for women to compete physically with men standards had to be lowered for police, fire and now the military.

There is no scientific evidence to support your statement at all.

Women were cutting the gap between performance in recent years (think Florence Griffith Joyner, Nancy Lieberman and Cheryl Miller) before the separate but equal status became established. There is a gap but much of it is long term socialization.

Again you need some evidence to back that statement up.

And that wasn't my point. There is some wrong in having separate but equal status while rewarding those females who are most male without being male.

What? I don't understand what you said? I would appreciate it if you could clarify?

 

[Eric7216]

Absolutely not. My info from college may be out of date in anthropology, but that is just not true. Men and women are physically different even down to brain structure and always have been. This is why for women to compete physically with men standards had to be lowered for police, fire and now the military.
There is no scientific evidence to support your statement at all.
Again you need some evidence to back that statement up.
What? I don't understand what you said? I would appreciate it if you could clarify?

It is not a matter of how long ago you studied anthropology. Durkheim wrote Divisions of Labor a long time ago. In it he wrote about the bone structure of males and females 50,000 years ago were more equal. He wrote "that there are two types of social solidarity, mechanical solidarity and organic solidarity. The former characterizes earlier societies, where the division of labour is relatively limited. The latter characterizes societies with a highly developed division of labour, and it is this division of labour itself which creates organic solidarity. In both types of societies, individuals for the most part "interact in accordance with their obligations to others and to society as a whole". As the role of women changed, their body changed. You don't see society impacting individuals?
Sociology 250 - Notes on Durkheim

I am not going to do a massive study here but let's look at some records. Women and men compete in equestrian, shooting, and, until recently, sailing so no problems there with that "men and women are different" idea. Women's 100m freestyle world record improved from 1:16.2 in 1916 to 52.07 today. An improvement of 32%. The men's record in the same period improved from 1:01.6 to 46.9, or 24%. Men's 1500 m record improved 12.2% in 100 years while the women's record improved 22.8%. Women are catching up as the changes in socialization changes. It remains to be seen how small the gap can be if this progression continues. Subjectively, I would argue that Michelle Akers and Cheryl Miller, who generally competed against males in soccer and basketball are better than the players today who generally compete against other women.

Are you anti-science? If there is evidence that gender is not binary but a continuum, and I think that there is, then the requirement that we force people into one of two boxes and make them compete as such seems unfair. You say, and I agree, that men and women are different physically. If so, and women are "weaker", for lack of a better word, doesn't segregation give an unfair advantage to females who are more male on that continuum? Bruce Jenner was the world's best athlete in 1976. Olympic decathlon champion. And now a female. That should cause some thought about this issue. Will we look back in 50 years at the segregated athletic idea with the same disdain as we look back on separate but equal racial education?

 

[Black Dog]

It is not a matter of how long ago you studied anthropology. Durkheim wrote Divisions of Labor a long time ago. In it he wrote about the bone structure of males and females 50,000 years ago were more equal. He wrote "that there are two types of social solidarity, mechanical solidarity and organic solidarity. The former characterizes earlier societies, where the division of labour is relatively limited. The latter characterizes societies with a highly developed division of labour, and it is this division of labour itself which creates organic solidarity. In both types of societies, individuals for the most part "interact in accordance with their obligations to others and to society as a whole". As the role of women changed, their body changed. You don't see society impacting individuals?
Sociology 250 - Notes on Durkheim

I am not going to do a massive study here but let's look at some records. Women and men compete in equestrian, shooting, and, until recently, sailing so no problems there with that "men and women are different" idea. Women's 100m freestyle world record improved from 1:16.2 in 1916 to 52.07 today. An improvement of 32%. The men's record in the same period improved from 1:01.6 to 46.9, or 24%. Men's 1500 m record improved 12.2% in 100 years while the women's record improved 22.8%. Women are catching up as the changes in socialization changes. It remains to be seen how small the gap can be if this progression continues. Subjectively, I would argue that Michelle Akers and Cheryl Miller, who generally competed against males in soccer and basketball are better than the players today who generally compete against other women.

Are you anti-science? If there is evidence that gender is not binary but a continuum, and I think that there is, then the requirement that we force people into one of two boxes and make them compete as such seems unfair. You say, and I agree, that men and women are different physically. If so, and women are "weaker", for lack of a better word, doesn't segregation give an unfair advantage to females who are more male on that continuum? Bruce Jenner was the world's best athlete in 1976. Olympic decathlon champion. And now a female. That should cause some thought about this issue. Will we look back in 50 years at the segregated athletic idea with the same disdain as we look back on separate but equal racial education?

Without having time to wade through the mountain of theory, hypotheses and your own conjecture I don't know why you would say I am anti science. I am the exact opposite. I am not however going to go on evidence as yet unproven because you or someone else think it may be.

I don't think women are weaker at all. We all have different strength's. But women trying to be men and visa versa is not the way to go in sports for the most part.

No wel will not. Women and men without drugs or other medical modifications cannot compete... nature vs science. So far nature is still a factor.

PS I do appreciate the effort put into your reply. Next time however... Cliff notes will do, lol.

 

[ajn678]

Don't be such a sexist. Men and women were much more equal 50,000 years ago before social conventions led to differentiation in gender roles and a change in gender physiology. Women were cutting the gap between performance in recent years (think Florence Griffith Joyner, Nancy Lieberman and Cheryl Miller) before the separate but equal status became established. There is a gap but much of it is long term socialization.

And that wasn't my point. There is some wrong in having separate but equal status while rewarding those females who are most male without being male.

Why do you post such obviously incorrect information. Lebron James being so much physically stronger than any WNBA star has nothing to do with social conventions. Stop being so anti-science. Its ridiculous.

 

[Eric7216]

Why do you post such obviously incorrect information. Lebron James being so much physically stronger than any WNBA star has nothing to do with social conventions. Stop being so anti-science. Its ridiculous.

You are being anti-science with your lack of understanding that gender is a continuum and not binary.
https://www.theguardian.com/science...ature-sex-redefined-we-have-never-been-binary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_binary

BTW, you are making the logical fallacy of anecdotal fallacy. LeBron doesn't represent the typical male gender.

And Durkheim published Division of Labor years ago and claimed that the bones of males and females were more similar 50,000 years ago before the genders started specializing in different jobs. It took a long time to get us where we are now.

 

[Bodi]

Oh look! Another over the top, hyperbolic headline from one of the usual suspects.

Finishing FIFTH in one event and THIRD in another race really doesn't fit the definition of "dominates" very well.

3rd and 5th place at State level is dominant. It also means that at the lower levels he beat all the girls and that is dominating... 100%

 

[Bodi]

Why should they be upset? They obviously aren't training hard enough if they are losing to another female

He isn't a female.

Sounds pretty sexist to me.

Yes, you are being pretty sexist towards females.

 

[Bodi]

Won? She got 5th place and 3rd place in the two events she qualified for. Not exactly winning.

It means that he was faster than the thousands of actual girls who compete in those events in that State...
It means that he won races and beat untold number of females who competed in those events in that State.

It means exactly "winning".

 

[Bodi]

A spot that any girl could have gotten from her. Obviously she isn't dominating the sport and this was her last year. This is one of few issues where I have mixed feelings about this, but in this case, it is obvious that many of the athletes didn't actually care whether she was born male or female. Heck, in a much less bias article, some said they didn't even notice a transgender girl competed.

At Alaska state track meet, a transgender athlete makes her mark - Alaska Dispatch News

I bet that a bunch noticed or knew and said nothing for fear of being labeled a bigot too...

 

[ajn678]

He isn't a female.



Yes, you are being pretty sexist towards females.

I was being sarcastic.

 

[ajn678]

You are being anti-science with your lack of understanding that gender is a continuum and not binary.
https://www.theguardian.com/science...ature-sex-redefined-we-have-never-been-binary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_binary

BTW, you are making the logical fallacy of anecdotal fallacy. LeBron doesn't represent the typical male gender.

And Durkheim published Division of Labor years ago and claimed that the bones of males and females were more similar 50,000 years ago before the genders started specializing in different jobs. It took a long time to get us where we are now.

You were talking about women competing with men in professional sports. Where the best men would play the best women. The best men would destroy a women's team. Picking a women on your team would be dooming your team to failure. It will never happen.