How many schools would dare walk down their path?
The philosophy or communications department isn't the thing that brings a ton of money into Michigan and makes them recognizable on a national stage.
That's great, but since I was referring to the difficulty of identifying and prosecuting white on black racism what you're saying is beside the point. Affirmative Action was created to address that point, though I think we can all agree that in execution it was always faulty from the start. So how would you identify white on black racism when it happens, or are you too going to say that being somewhat less common than the Loch Ness Monster it's pointless to even discuss?
Just the opposite. Merit is all I am considering.
As to athletic talent.....So is musical talent. So is cooking. So is writing poetry. So is drawing pictures. So is proficiency at sex. So are lots and lots and lots of things.
And while some of those do touch upon things in college, I do NOT want to make them what gets you in or out of an academic institution dedicated to learning and the acquisition of knowledge unless of course it is a cooking school or an art school or a music school where those things are primary at the school and they forgo regular academics. There are no colleges or universities that I know of which only teach team athletics and forgo regular academics.
Which you must know won't happen. It will simply return to the old system that values legacy or admissions officers whims over merit and diversity will be lost.
But you want skin color to be a determinant...
where are you getting that statement from?
Universities are made up of colleges. A University can have a College of Arts and Sciences, a College of Engineering, a College of Computer Science, etc...Sometimes they're called schools as well. Basically, the difference between a college and a university is that a college offers degrees in one area, a university offers degrees in multiple areas. One isn't superior to the other academically.
Agreed. But Harvard seems to do okay in the recognition department without Michigan style athletic teams don't they? What is so sacred about athletics that we must sacrifice the principle of academic merit upon that altar?
But you want skin color to be a determinant...
White on black, black on white, it's all racism.
And, while it's less widespread and less acceptable than it used to be, it is a lot more common than sightings of the Loch Ness Monster, and far more real.
My preference would be that public colleges and universities would be a meritocracy. How each individual school wants to weight the actions that factor into admission would be up to them. If they want to go purely academic performance, that's fine. If they want to give weight to extra-curriculars, I'm fine with that. If they want to give weight to an individual with a compelling life story or a compelling essay, that's fine. If they want to look at community or charitable services done and factor that in, cool. I don't think every University has to be absolutely cookie cutter and I'm fine with different ones valuing certain aspects of what a person has done in their life differently.
However, I do think it should be MERIT, not who you are. I'm not in favor of weighing someone's application higher simply because they're a legacy. I'm not in favor of weighing someone higher because they're a minority race. I'm not in favor of a school weighing someone higher because they're male or female because the schools population is heavily slanted in the oppsite direction. I'm not in favor of a school weighing someone higher because they're in-state as opposed to out-of-state. I'm not in favor of a school weighing someone higher because they're from a state the school doens't have a student from (My University actively attempted to get a student from every state in the US).
I think Private Schools should be able to do their selections in any legal way they want. In their cases, if they feel artificially creating a racially diverse campus is beneficial then be my guest. If they feel that legacies are important and a grand tradition, then that's fine. But I think in terms of public universities it should be based on what you DO...not who you are.
Then again, I'm one of those strange people that would prefer a society where everyone DOESN'T go to college because to have such a society then the entire notion of college generally has to be watered down to a useless degree.
The whole idea that we would fix racial discrimination with racial discrimination has always been a non-starter. If minority children can't get in to college because their high school education was poor then fix the high school. If they don't get in because the school discriminated due to skin color then fire the school administrator that made that choice.
Affirmative action in school admissions has always been a unworkable solution to a problem whose root causes were politically protected and deemed not fixable.
You may want to tell that to the poster who thinks universities are superior to colleges.
Agreed. But Harvard seems to do okay in the recognition department without Michigan style athletic teams don't they? What is so sacred about athletics that we must sacrifice the principle of academic merit upon that altar?
You don't know the difference between college and university. Harvard College isn't and never will be below Golden Gate University. Or Rutgers University, since I see you live in NJ.
High court upholds Mich. affirmative action ban | The Detroit News
"The Supreme Court on Tuesday upheld Michigan’s ban on using race as a factor in college admissions.
The justices said in a 6-2 ruling that Michigan voters had the right to change their state constitution in 2006 to prohibit public colleges and universities from taking account of race in admissions decisions. The justices said a lower federal court was wrong to set aside the change as discriminatory."
Students of all races can now know that they got in to Michigan schools on their merit.
Then yeah, that.. Sorry.
Although, FWIW Haaaaavaaaad is overrated. They have some great graduate programs, but their undergrad is mediocre at best. And it's not just them, It's a common theme among most of the Ivy schools (Cornell being the exception). Law school; great! Engineering? Don't bother. Humanities? Sure, but you'll never recoup the cost of tuition.
I totally support equal rights, but I don't believe that there's a fair way to guarantee equal results.
"Tolerance is giving every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll
OMG this is a stupid retort. I didn't say they were! Why do you lie and try to make it seem so? Intellectual dishonesty will not win arguments.
And?The only caveat I would foresee is private institution making admissions as they see fit, which is their right to be honest.
Then you may want to check your own posts before you make them. You said it, I posted what you wrote.
If you buy a ticket, you have the same chance of winning the lottery as any other person who buys a ticket. I'm surprised you don't get that but hey, you brought in the analogy, not me.
We're all born as Americans, and I've seen Americans from all walks of life fail, and I've seen Americans from all walks of life succeed. I can't help you if you've only seen failure, sorry. I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist. I think anyone can do great things - if he sets his mind to it.
I think this is the inherit problem. We should only focus on equal opportunity not equal results.Individuals will have different abilities and to say that anything other than opportunity should be equal is to create a losing battle.
I totally support equal rights, but I don't believe that there's a fair way to guarantee equal results.
"Tolerance is giving every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll
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