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High capacity magazines [W:1390]

Re: High capacity magazines

James Madison, Federalist, no. 42, 283--85
22 Jan. 1788

The defect of power in the existing confederacy, to regulate the commerce between its several members, is in the number of those which have been clearly pointed out by experience. To the proofs and remarks which former papers have brought into view on this subject, it may be added, that without this supplemental provision, the great and essential power of regulating foreign commerce, would have been incompleat, and ineffectual. A very material object of this power was the relief of the States which import and export through other States, from the improper contributions levied on them by the latter. Were these at liberty to regulate the trade between State and State, it must be foreseen that ways would be found out, to load the articles of import and export, during the passage through their jurisdiction, with duties which would fall on the makers of the latter, and the consumers of the former. We may be assured by past experience, that such a practice would be introduced by future contrivances; and both by that and a common knowledge of human affairs, that it would nourish unceasing animosities, and not improbably terminate in serious interruptions of the public tranquility.To those who do not view the question through the medium of passion or of interest, the desire of the commercial States to collect in any form, an indirect revenue from their uncommercial neighbours, must appear not less impolitic than it is unfair; since it would stimulate the injured party, by resentment as well as interest, to resort to less convenient channels for their foreign trade. But the mild voice of reason, pleading the cause of an enlarged and permanent interest, is but too often drowned before public bodies as well as individuals, by the clamours of an impatient avidity for immediate and immoderate gain.



SUMMERY

Madison is arguing for the federal government to have the delegated power to .......regulate commerce among [between] the states

Madison is stating that regulation of commence between the states, is to relief [prevent] the states from levying improper taxes on goods, which move between state to state because if we dont, states will load articles of import and export down with taxes during its passage through there jurisdiction, which those tax would end up falling back on the makers of the articles in the state exporting them, and on the consumers of the articles.

Madison goes on to say by past experience [articles of confederation] and knowledge know this is true, and to prevent states from creating these taxes on import/ export goods goods and creating animosities [ augments] between states, and to preserve public tranquility..... the federal should be delegated that power
 
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Re: High capacity magazines

Federalist said:
The act of manufacturing does not involve buying and selling. It is manufacturing.
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You are intentionally forgetting the ingredients that went into the manufacturing that clearly involved buying and selling.
 
Re: High capacity magazines

Luftwaffe said:
There is no way to support him. What he said was perfectly clear and needs no support.

The problem is that some people are just downright retarded to the point where they can't understand the theme/objective of the things they read. Like...
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Resorting to elementary school insults hardly is a substitute for rational debate.
 
Re: High capacity magazines

American said:
I didn't say there was a law, I asked if it's okay to ban them.
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Oh - so its a HYPOTHETICAL question about imagination land that has nothing to do with the issue being discussed in the USA. Got it.
 
Re: High capacity magazines

haymarket said:
Oh - so its a HYPOTHETICAL question about imagination land that has nothing to do with the issue being discussed in the USA. Got it.
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It has all to do with the issue being discussed in the USA. You're dodging.
 
Re: High capacity magazines

Luftwaffe said:
It has all to do with the issue being discussed in the USA. You're dodging.
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Can you have a gun without a firing pin? If not, this would seem to ban guns themselves which would create an environment where the right could not be exercised and thus be unconstitutional.
 
Re: High capacity magazines

haymarket said:
You are intentionally forgetting the ingredients that went into the manufacturing that clearly involved buying and selling.
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And the buying and selling of those items was already regulated.
 
Re: High capacity magazines

haymarket said:
Oh - so its a HYPOTHETICAL question about imagination land that has nothing to do with the issue being discussed in the USA. Got it.
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Another dodge, bet you're too chicken to answer. I dare to answer the question.
 
Re: High capacity magazines

haymarket said:
You are intentionally forgetting the ingredients that went into the manufacturing that clearly involved buying and selling.
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and do you actually believe the founders intended federal control based on that?
 
Re: High capacity magazines


That is pure BS. If something is a right today and is turned into a crime (or state issued privilege) tomorrow then that right has, indeed, been infringed. How can bearing a handgun be a crime if keeping that same, completely legal, handgun is a right? The 2A clearly states a compound right "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". The nonsense notion that a legally purchased standard magazine can suddenly become an illegal "high capacity" magazine is pure infringement.
 
Re: High capacity magazines

haymarket said:
You are intentionally forgetting the ingredients that went into the manufacturing that clearly involved buying and selling.
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And can you point to the text in the constitution that says congress has the power to regulate the manufacture of items where the ingredients involved buying and selling?

You really seem to be stretching here.

Commerce among the several states. Buying and selling among the several states.
 
Re: High capacity magazines


using the same "exact language" that Haymarket applies to the 2A to claim that "shall not be infringed" does not prevent "infringements" because Infringements are not mentioned in the 2A leads us to conclude that congress never was given any power to regulate firearms.

of course that test is not used by him on Sec 8 because it defeats his argument
 
Re: High capacity magazines

Oh you wanted to get back on topic? Oh ok, that means you aren't going to say anything else about guns that isn't directly related to magazine capacity, which means we aren't talking about the NFA anymore since magazines aren't firearms.

So let's talk about the topic, the whole topic and nothing but the topic: High-capacity magazines. What is the harm in lawful gun owners having high-cap mags if they're otherwise able to own and carry guns? I don't see the harm.
 
Re: High capacity magazines

Jerry said:
That's nice. That's not what this thread is about, however. This thread is about high-capacity magazines.
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High capacity when attached to an emotional belief simply multiplies the fear they have. Large calibre, assault rifle, high capacity, rapid fire.....

Anyone expecting a logical rational argument from such deluded people is in for a surprise.

If somebody has a belt or hopper fed machine gun what of it? What will this cause besides hysteria in the wobbly minds of gun control advocates?
 
Re: High capacity magazines

Thing is, you guys entertain haymarket's tangents. You're right, he has nothing, and so when you hold him to the topic he stops posting.
 
Re: High capacity magazines

haymarket said:
terrific - so you have no problem then.
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How on earth did you leap to that conclusion? Can you leap tall buildings as well?
 
Re: High capacity magazines

TurtleDude said:
and do you actually believe the founders intended federal control based on that?
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based on ALL the different factors I have presented to you many previous times.
 
Re: High capacity magazines

Crimefree said:
How on earth did you leap to that conclusion? Can you leap tall buildings as well?
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Now that I turned 65 I restrict myself to small buildings of no more than five stories.
 
Re: High capacity magazines


At its core are several fundamental issues that must be considered in addition to the obvious Second Amendment considerations.

1- What kind of society do we want to live in? In other words, do Americans want a society where large capacity magazines are someday common and in wide spread use and what would that mean for changes in American society?

2 - Should technology and finances be the only limiting factors on things like guns and magazines?

Those are issues that must be explored before we can answer your final point about HARM.
 
Re: High capacity magazines


And you have been shown repeatedly that such a comparison is simply not true nor factual. But it seems to be the only argument you are left with so you cling to it no matter how many times it is refuted.
 
Re: High capacity magazines

You're asking of opinions, not facts.

Magazien capacity is not coralated with an increase of gun-related crime, which means the government has no compelling interest to justify interfearing with the sale of these items.

If the public doesn't want to live in a sociaty that buys and sells high-cap mags, then buisness will choose not to sell them and individuals will choose not to buy them. That issue will be settled by the colective population, not the few elite bringing down an iron fist.
 
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