Help with an AR build

[Jerry]

That's just not the reality of the situation.

If you can't keep your finger off the trigger until you're actually going to fire then you're a hazard and shouldn't be allowed to posses a firearm at all regardless of the trigger installed.

 

[Jerry]

No I didn't, I stated to get two lowers with different triggers.

That's outside the scope of OP's project. He wants one rifle "that can do it all". Replacing the lower is replacing the rifle. One rifle means one lower so when you bring up multiple triggers that means you suggest more than one trigger for one lower.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

This National Match two-stage trigger from RRA is an excellent trigger for your AR15 rifle. These are used frequently in Varmint and Long Range AR builds where a lighter 2-Stage trigger really helps accuracy and round placement. These triggers come pre-adjusted by Rock River gunsmiths as a matched pair and drop in all mil-spec lowers with no adjustment necessary for an easy drop-in install.

RRA Two Stage Match Trigger Kit-AR0093NMK

The pull of the QMS is very similar to a standard mil-spec trigger, however the majority of the associated grittiness of the stock trigger pull has been removed while the well-known reliability of a stock trigger remains. The pull weight is not lower than the M4/M16 minimum weight specification of 5.5lbs.

ALG Defense Quality Mil-Spec Trigger (QMS)

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

That's outside the scope of OP's project. He wants one rifle "that can do it all". Replacing the lower is replacing the rifle. One rifle means one lower so when you bring up multiple triggers that means you suggest more than one trigger for one lower.

No, I clearly stated two lowers.

 

[Jerry]

No, I clearly stated two lowers.

Two lowers is outside the scope of OP's project: "The idea is to build one rifle with one nice scope that can do it all".

That doesn't sound to me like OP wants a collection of modeler parts he can assemble based on use at the time. To me that sounds like OP wants one intact unit he can deploy for a wide variety of uses. Now, I for one would be very interested in hearing your suggestion for a trigger for that kind of molti-roll rifle since mine is as close to off-the-shelf mil-spec as possible so as to match my issued weapon.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

If you can't keep your finger off the trigger until you're actually going to fire then you're a hazard and shouldn't be allowed to posses a firearm at all regardless of the trigger installed.

I agree one should keep his finger off the trigger until its time to fire. What you don't seem to understand though is there are different triggers for different firearm applications, even on the AR15 platform.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

Two lowers is outside the scope of OP's project: "The idea is to build one rifle with one nice scope that can do it all".

And I don't find that to be practical or advisable.

 

[Jerry]

And I don't find that to be practical or advisable.

I agree it's not practical, that's the challenge, that's what makes this difficult and enjoyable.

 

[Reformedfindlay]

It seems you're just ignorant to the uses of arms for different applications.

Perhaps. I still see no use in the perseveration over the trigger but then again, like I said, I never built a gun and when I do shoot I've never paid the trigger any mind at all.

 

[TurtleDude]

Perhaps. I still see no use in the perseveration over the trigger but then again, like I said, I never built a gun and when I do shoot I've never paid the trigger any mind at all.

a good trigger is mainly what I pay for in top skeet guns, or steel pistols or 3G rifles

 

[Reformedfindlay]

a good trigger is mainly what I pay for in top skeet guns, or steel pistols or 3G rifles

That may be one of the reasons I don't really care about the trigger. Shooting for me so far has been purely casual and in a range with targets less than 50 yards out. I've never done any serious marksmanship or anything yet, although, I will be hunting for the first time soon... Maybe then I'll understand what you guys are talking about. Maybe.

 

[braindrain]

That may be one of the reasons I don't really care about the trigger. Shooting for me so far has been purely casual and in a range with targets less than 50 yards out. I've never done any serious marksmanship or anything yet, although, I will be hunting for the first time soon... Maybe then I'll understand what you guys are talking about. Maybe.

They pretty much explains it.

If you have very miumal requirements for your weapon than almost anything will do. However if you need something more serious than you may understand the need for a quality trigger.

 

[tech30528]

I do appreciate a good trigger. I've built many 10 22s, I have about $110 in the internals I like to use on those, including a better trigger. Right now my MN is my full distance Appleseed rifle. There are 4 stages ranging from 100 to 400 yards, standing seated and prone, mag changes and it's all timed. Transitioning from standing to seated and firing 10 rounds with a mag change at 200 yards in 55 seconds is no joke. The 400 yard stage is 20 rounds prone in 2 minutes, at least the way we do it. My MN is a bolt gun with 10 round mags. After that if we have time we stretch out a bit more and shoot steel silhouettes. My last outting at 500 yards had me hitting head shots laying in the grass with a loop sling. So yes, speed and precision are important. I don't much subscribe to the "battle rifle" train of thought. I'm not the tacticool guy. Honestly if I was dealing with close quarters stuff I would likely grab my Sub 2000 instead. What I am looking for is something to bridge the gap between 22lr and 30 cal. The DOLOS system will allow me to play with other calibers , load development is a bit of a hobby of mine. This build will allow me to switch from .204 Ruger to .223 (with different twist rates for heavy or light bullets) and subsonic 300 blackout without having to build 4 rifles, and since I will only need one scope I can get something really nice.

 

[tech30528]

The Appleseed program uses the old Army Qualifier Test. For instructors we make it a little more interesting. You know how the 4 and 5 zones of the silhouette are black and then the outside 3 zone is white? We don't use the 3 zone. Only hits on 4 and 5 count. Normally you would get 10 rounds at each distance of 100, 200, 300 and 400 yards and scores will double at 400. Instead we made the 400 round 20 rounds. My rifle gets hot enough to melt the Loctite on the scope mount. I don't think that's much of a problem when you are feeding them 5 round stripper clips in the original design.

So then to make it even "funner" we speed this up. We run what some of us refer to as a "naked quicky". Naked because we use no mats or supports, all you have is your rifle with a loop sling, 2 mags and 50 rounds of ammo. Quicky because there are no breaks. You start at 100, fire your 10 rounds standing, and then walk back to 200 for the next stage and so on. You are loading your magazines while you walk. Only after all 4 stages do you go check your targets. It's all DOPE adjustments. 47 out of 50 hits (in the 4 and 5) to win. Fun for the whole family.

 

[DVSentinel]

I started mine with a Bushmaster M-4 style rifle and have been swapping out parts as I can afford them. Now has 24" polygonal barrel with Magpul "sniper" style adjustable rear stock and a Magpul front. Since I had to replace it anyway, went with a gas block without integrated front sight since the rifle is scoped.

Future upgrades will be a side slide upper, a new trigger group and hopefully some day a suppressor. Will get a new lower also because it will be the last piece I need to reassemble the original rifle for re-sale to recoup some of the costs.

While I like the idea of building my own, I also like having a useable rifle while collecting the parts. Will probably do the same for a .308, either AR or HK-91 based.

 

[US Conservative]

I started mine with a Bushmaster M-4 style rifle and have been swapping out parts as I can afford them. Now has 24" polygonal barrel with Magpul "sniper" style adjustable rear stock and a Magpul front. Since I had to replace it anyway, went with a gas block without integrated front sight since the rifle is scoped.

Future upgrades will be a side slide upper, a new trigger group and hopefully some day a suppressor. Will get a new lower also because it will be the last piece I need to reassemble the original rifle for re-sale to recoup some of the costs.

While I like the idea of building my own, I also like having a useable rifle while collecting the parts. Will probably do the same for a .308, either AR or HK-91 based.

What is a large slide upper? Any benefits to that?

How do you like that polygonal rifling? I have a .22 rimfire and it shoots and cleans pretty easily.

 

[DVSentinel]

What is a large slide upper? Any benefits to that?

How do you like that polygonal rifling? I have a .22 rimfire and it shoots and cleans pretty easily.

Side slide upper, not large slide. Depending on which you get, it adds a slide lever on the left side for charging. One that I've seen is a cheapo using existing bolt and retains the charging handle, but I'm going for the properly built one the removes the charging handle and replaces it with a slide on the left. I have always hated that charging handle, especially with a scope.

Like it so far. With the fat pistol grip and rest, 24" barrel and new stocks, it changed how the rifle felt and handled tremendously. The long heavy barrel really cuts the recoil on it. Cannot comment on accuracy as I haven't gotten myself to the level where I could test it very well. With tremors and some involuntary muscle spasms, doubt I ever will with a rifle that light.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

That may be one of the reasons I don't really care about the trigger. Shooting for me so far has been purely casual and in a range with targets less than 50 yards out. I've never done any serious marksmanship or anything yet, although, I will be hunting for the first time soon... Maybe then I'll understand what you guys are talking about. Maybe.

Hopefully, you won't wound instead of kill. Then you will.

 

[tech30528]

Side slide upper, not large slide. Depending on which you get, it adds a slide lever on the left side for charging. One that I've seen is a cheapo using existing bolt and retains the charging handle, but I'm going for the properly built one the removes the charging handle and replaces it with a slide on the left. I have always hated that charging handle, especially with a scope.

Like it so far. With the fat pistol grip and rest, 24" barrel and new stocks, it changed how the rifle felt and handled tremendously. The long heavy barrel really cuts the recoil on it. Cannot comment on accuracy as I haven't gotten myself to the level where I could test it very well. With tremors and some involuntary muscle spasms, doubt I ever will with a rifle that light.

I take two Aleve on the way to the range. Naproxen sodium is a muscle relaxer and takes out the last bit of shake. I definitely recommend attending an Appleseed event. You'll want a loop sling. You will be a much better shooter in one weekend. There are events going on all over the country, particularly April 19th. There are 5 events in Georgia alone that weekend. April 19th 1775 was the start of the Revolutionary War. We celebrate it as Patriot's Day, no better way to spend it than learning to shoot well and get a history lesson.

 

[DVSentinel]

I take two Aleve on the way to the range. Naproxen sodium is a muscle relaxer and takes out the last bit of shake. I definitely recommend attending an Appleseed event. You'll want a loop sling. You will be a much better shooter in one weekend. There are events going on all over the country, particularly April 19th. There are 5 events in Georgia alone that weekend. April 19th 1775 was the start of the Revolutionary War. We celebrate it as Patriot's Day, no better way to spend it than learning to shoot well and get a history lesson.

I will have to check with the doc, see if I can take Naproxen. Seems there is problems with my liver function so he doesn't want me taking pain killers. I've started doing some weight training on the muscles used for shooting to try to quell some of the tremors. Nicotine helps a lot but is not perfect.

Never heard of those events, will have to check them out.

 

[Jerry]

Just goofin around on YouTube today and thought I'de share these:

 

[tech30528]

A liitle update: I got my lower, unfortunately it just has an "S" and an "F" for the safety indicators instead of "Hope" and "Change", he had a font problem on the CNC that prevented this awesome upgrade. But it is what it is, I could still have it engraved on the right side. As for trigger I went with a Jard single stage adjustable, 5.5 to 3 pounds. The Timney in my MN is 4.5 so I'll like go with that. I like a single, and this one was free.

So next I need to look at uppers, a bolt and barrel. It was suggested that I do the built without the DOLOS and go there later if I want. So I am looking for a Wylde chamber, preferably stainless, and in an effort to keep it light a 16 inch barrel since I will not be mounting iron sights. I'm looking at a Burris AR223 BDC scope. A second plane scope will be fine for me because I don't want to lose the reticle at low magnification. Keep in mind that here in the mountains deer and pigs are usually taken at 75 yards or less. Coyotes are typically further, but not much, and I still want to hit targets out too 600. Given all that, what's next? PSA has a lower hardware kit without trigger for $30, but it is very basic without even a line to indicate safe and fir on the right side. Might look for an ambi selector just to make the engraving look good. Scope mount looks like it will be GGNC, it has a long cantilevered base that extends over the forend so the heat shield can be light, no rails, so if I go DOLOS it won't matter. This scope and mounting system are proven, true zero return and has even stayed zeroed after being dropped hard. For the stock I'm torn. I like light and simple, but I like adjustable for length (makes a difference prone) and want an adjustable cheek riser. Is there such a unit?

Oh, and thinking 1:8. We use 55 varmint bullets for pigs and deer but want to be able to go heavier for longer distance. The BDC is supposed to work well for 55 and 62 grain, heavies and 300 would take some adjustment but I can test and live with that. 300 would likely be subsonic anyway for suppressed night hunts on pigs and coyotes.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

A liitle update: I got my lower, unfortunately it just has an "S" and an "F" for the safety indicators instead of "Hope" and "Change", he had a font problem on the CNC that prevented this awesome upgrade. But it is what it is, I could still have it engraved on the right side. As for trigger I went with a Jard single stage adjustable, 5.5 to 3 pounds. The Timney in my MN is 4.5 so I'll like go with that. I like a single, and this one was free.

So next I need to look at uppers, a bolt and barrel. It was suggested that I do the built without the DOLOS and go there later if I want. So I am looking for a Wylde chamber, preferably stainless, and in an effort to keep it light a 16 inch barrel since I will not be mounting iron sights. I'm looking at a Burris AR223 BDC scope. A second plane scope will be fine for me because I don't want to lose the reticle at low magnification. Keep in mind that here in the mountains deer and pigs are usually taken at 75 yards or less. Coyotes are typically further, but not much, and I still want to hit targets out too 600. Given all that, what's next? PSA has a lower hardware kit without trigger for $30, but it is very basic without even a line to indicate safe and fir on the right side. Might look for an ambi selector just to make the engraving look good. Scope mount looks like it will be GGNC, it has a long cantilevered base that extends over the forend so the heat shield can be light, no rails, so if I go DOLOS it won't matter. This scope and mounting system are proven, true zero return and has even stayed zeroed after being dropped hard. For the stock I'm torn. I like light and simple, but I like adjustable for length (makes a difference prone) and want an adjustable cheek riser. Is there such a unit?

Oh, and thinking 1:8. We use 55 varmint bullets for pigs and deer but want to be able to go heavier for longer distance. The BDC is supposed to work well for 55 and 62 grain, heavies and 300 would take some adjustment but I can test and live with that. 300 would likely be subsonic anyway for suppressed night hunts on pigs and coyotes.

If you have a 1/8 twist, you will be able to use much heavier bullets than 55 grains, which is better for taking game the sizes you hunt. A 1/8 will allow you to use bullets as heavy as 69 grains, and possibly as heavy as 77. If you want to reach out further than 300 yards I recommend a longer barrel length than 16".

I just bought a bunch of 77 grain ammo for my 1/7 twist 14.5" BCM Midlength rifle, Magtech/CBC MK262 Mod 1.

MagTech :: View Product

 

[tech30528]

If you have a 1/8 twist, you will be able to use much heavier bullets than 55 grains, which is better for taking game the sizes you hunt. A 1/8 will allow you to use bullets as heavy as 69 grains, and possibly as heavy as 77. If you want to reach out further than 300 yards I recommend a longer barrel length than 16".

I just bought a bunch of 77 grain ammo for my 1/7 twist 14.5" BCM Midlength rifle, Magtech/CBC MK262 Mod 1.

MagTech :: View Product

I was worried about going all the way to 1:7 considering using a lot of 55s in hand loads. The 55 varmint bullets seem to work very well at our ranges for what we hunt. The issue of small projectiles coming apart in flight at high twist rates is not just about spin rate, but because of fracturing caused by high chamber pressures. The theory is that the steeper "ramp" caused more initial resistance to spike chamber pressure resulting in a fractured bullet. Not my monkey, not my circus, just passing on what I've been told. I'd prefer evidence, pro or con. I'm new to the AR game, but not to shooting.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

I was worried about going all the way to 1:7 considering using a lot of 55s in hand loads. The 55 varmint bullets seem to work very well at our ranges for what we hunt. The issue of small projectiles coming apart in flight at high twist rates is not just about spin rate, but because of fracturing caused by high chamber pressures. The theory is that the steeper "ramp" caused more initial resistance to spike chamber pressure resulting in a fractured bullet. Not my monkey, not my circus, just passing on what I've been told. I'd prefer evidence, pro or con. I'm new to the AR game, but not to shooting.

The 55 grain projectile doesn't fare well in most 1/7 twist barrels. If you plan to exclusively fire 55 grain projectiles then a 1/9 twist is your best bet. It will also shoot 62 grain projectiles very well. If you plan to shoot only 55 grain or 62 grain bullets, then I wouldn't get a 1/8 twist rate for your barrel. I would stick to a 1/9 twist. The 1/8 is compromise between the lighter and heavier bullets, but for 55 grain or 62 grain exclusively, I would go with the 1/9.

This might help.

So you want to buy an AR-15, huh?