Headin' Out

[_Sal]

That's why God made best friends.

true

although it would then depend upon the mental stability of your best friend for one (can they do the deed and then live with it...that is a heavy burden to place upon another) and then there is currently the issue of our law which would make it murder...I do not believe a friend would jeopardize their friend's future existence by asking them to commit murder. That is why she exited early.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

There are a lot of threads in here discussing abortion. (life on the way in)

Inevitability the issue of the value of life arises and what that means to various people on either side of the issue.

So what about heading out.

Do people have the right to ask for assistance with an early exit?

Do you have qualifiers?

Something I just thought of.
What about adults with children?

Should they receive helping ending it?

 

[_Sal]

If you allow abortion, why would you want to discourage people taking an easy way out in other cases?

herein lies the problem with people on various sides of this issue...some use such terms as "taking the easy way out" which is indicative of a complete lack of understanding of the issue and human existence and suffering. Why would you reduce it to such and then expect to be taken seriously?

 

[SMTA]

true

although it would then depend upon the mental stability of your best friend for one (can they do the deed and then live with it...that is a heavy burden to place upon another) and then there is currently the issue of our law which would make it murder...I do not believe a friend would jeopardize their friend's future existence by asking them to commit murder. That is why she exited early.

Your beliefs do not rule other people's friendships.

 

[_Sal]

Something I just thought of.
What about adults with children?

Should they receive helping ending it?

Do you mean the adults or the children?

If you are referring to the children having that right to make that decision for themselves, honestly Harry, I don't know but I am leaning toward yes. I am thinking specifically of some case that is vague to me now where a kid had fought cancer for many years and had reached the end of effective treatment. If I recall the kid fought it in court and set a precedent by winning I think.

They should have the same rights as us and we should certainly have the same rights as our pets.

It does make me squirm and I will have to reflect on it more because I don't know why it makes me squirm as I have zero problem with adults making the decision for themself and certainly children that have suffered a world of hurt and agony at such a young age have a better understanding of life than many adults will ever gain.

 

[_Sal]

Your beliefs do not rule other people's friendships.

oh I have no problem with what two friends decide between themselves with regard to the ending of life...I just know in my particular case one of my girlfriends would be useless ... god love her but I removed her from my power of attorney...she would keep me breathing and wheezing and choking on blood clots thinking maybe they will find a cure and I will be revived.

 

[SMTA]

oh I have no problem with what two friends decide between themselves with regard to the ending of life...I just know in my particular case one of my girlfriends would be useless ... god love her but I removed her from my power of attorney...she would keep me breathing and wheezing and choking on blood clots thinking maybe they will find a cure and I will be revived.

Then Cryonics is for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryonics

Cryonics: Alcor Life Extension Foundation

 

[_Sal]

Then Cryonics is for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryonics

Cryonics: Alcor Life Extension Foundation

nah cryonics is for her ...I believe in multiple lives...I'm good with turning off the light and heading out when it's time...

 

[joG]

herein lies the problem with people on various sides of this issue...some use such terms as "taking the easy way out" which is indicative of a complete lack of understanding of the issue and human existence and suffering. Why would you reduce it to such and then expect to be taken seriously?

Because it is the easy way out. Of course, the girl will tell you another story.

 

[Hatuey]

All they have to do is commit suicide, which requires no help.

With certain conditions, it certainly does.

 

[_Sal]

Because it is the easy way out. Of course, the girl will tell you another story.

please explain how you view this as the easy way out

is the easy way out a bad thing?

what girl?

 

[SMTA]

With certain conditions, it certainly does.

Tell that to Robin Williams.

 

[digsbe]

I support the right to assisted suicide only in cases of terminally ill people of sound mind.

 

[_Sal]

I support the right to assisted suicide only in cases of terminally ill people of sound mind.

okay, that's a start at least...

and likely the one the majority would approve of

do you believe that a mental illness can cause as much suffering and pain as a physical terminal illness?

 

[digsbe]

okay, that's a start at least...

and likely the one the majority would approve of

do you believe that a mental illness can cause as much suffering and pain as a physical terminal illness?

I think a mental illness, where the person wants to harm themselves or kill themselves (suicidal) results in a person not being of sound mind and unable to rationally make that decision. Anyone aiding in their death does so wrongfully and should be prosecuted.

I would decriminalize suicide (in instances where it's non-violent or harmful to others) in the event one survives an attempt, but I would not legalize allowing others to help.

 

[_Sal]

I think a mental illness, where the person wants to harm themselves or kill themselves (suicidal) results in a person not being of sound mind and unable to rationally make that decision. Anyone aiding in their death does so wrongfully and should be prosecuted.

I would decriminalize suicide (in instances where it's non-violent or harmful to others), but I would legalize allowing others to help.

hm...so do you believe that a mental illness means someone is not of "sound mind"?

because here's the thing...it's overwhelming pain either (mentally or physically) and usually both entwined that becomes so unbearable that there is no quality of life remaining which leads to someone wishing to check out no?

 

[Hatuey]

Tell that to Robin Williams.

One person with a condition that doesn't completely degenerate your body physically doesn't change my statement. I can see how a person with MS would need some assistance committing suicide.

 

[SMTA]

One person with a condition that doesn't completely degenerate your body physically doesn't change my statement. I can see how a person with MS would need some assistance committing suicide.

Stop jumping to your own conclusions.

I never said that everyone would not require assistance.

Cripe.

ETA - Folks with MS are effected to varying degrees, and it changes at times, usually driven by stress.

 

[digsbe]

hm...so do you believe that a mental illness means someone is not of "sound mind"?

because here's the thing...it's overwhelming pain either (mentally or physically) and usually both entwined that becomes so unbearable that there is no quality of life remaining which leads to someone wishing to check out no?

I think those suffering from mental illness are usually not of sound mind. The decision to kill yourself is not sound or rational, for the deeply depressed suffering emotional anguish they are not thinking rationally when to them the answer is to kill themselves.

Anyone who aids in killing a physically healthy person at the request of their mentally ill self commits murder and malpractice. You don't treat the mentally ill by killing them. In nearly all diseases of depression suicide prevention is one of the primary goals of treatment and constitutes treatment failure. Not only this, but if your actions are deemed to have contributed to the person becoming or committing suicide you can be sued or charged. We have black box warnings on some drugs regarding their tendency to initially cause some suicidal ideation.

 

[joG]

please explain how you view this as the easy way out

is the easy way out a bad thing?

what girl?

An abortion is much easier than maintenance of a child for 20 years. Why, I recently read that a kid now costs an average of $ 250.000 in the US before it's done. I did not check it, but it does sound on the cheap side. Anyway, an abortion is certainly easier than finding that amount money or being reduced to welfare.

 

[Hatuey]

Stop jumping to your own conclusions.

I never said that everyone would not require assistance.

Cripe.

ETA - Folks with MS are effected to varying degrees, and it changes at times, usually driven by stress.

You just made a generalized statement that suicide requires no help. I simply pointed out that there are a number of cases where it certainly does due to the kinds of illnesses people tend to commit suicide over.

 

[_Sal]

I think those suffering from mental illness are usually not of sound mind. The decision to kill yourself is not sound or rational, for the deeply depressed suffering emotional anguish they are not thinking rationally when to them the answer is to kill themselves.

so then you would say that some people suffering from mental illness are of sound mind?

would you say that it is of sound mind and rational to conclude that after years and years of attempting to balance someone's brain chemistry and failing and them suffering unbelievable mental anguish on a daily basis that they have the right to say that they have tried long enough?

Anyone who aids in killing a physically healthy person at the request of their mentally ill self commits murder and malpractice. You don't treat the mentally ill by killing them.

I think in these cases they just quietly check out as Robin Williams and hundreds of others do. I would not advocate treating mental illness via execution. No.

 

[_Sal]

An abortion is much easier than maintenance of a child for 20 years. Why, I recently read that a kid now costs an average of $ 250.000 in the US before it's done. I did not check it, but it does sound on the cheap side. Anyway, an abortion is certainly easier than finding that amount money or being reduced to welfare.

aaaaaaaaaaaah okay you are referring to abortion, I was referring to checking out early...thanks for the clarification on my misunderstanding.

 

[digsbe]

so then you would say that some people suffering from mental illness are of sound mind?

would you say that it is of sound mind and rational to conclude that after years and years of attempting to balance someone's brain chemistry and failing and them suffering unbelievable mental anguish on a daily basis that they have the right to say that they have tried long enough?


I think in these cases they just quietly check out as Robin Williams and hundreds of others do. I would not advocate treating mental illness via execution. No.

Not all mental illnesses are the same. Anyone seeking to harm themselves or kill themselves should not be deemed of sound mind. Such a thought or decision is not sound or rational and is a symptom of their mental condition. Allowing people to assist in their death essentially is treating by execution.

 

[SMTA]

You just made a generalized statement that suicide requires no help. I simply pointed out that there are a number of cases where it certainly does due to the kinds of illnesses people tend to commit suicide over.

Don't make me hurt you.