Head of IPCC outed.

[Moot]

You just think you do. It's called bias. You read it as you want to.

I'm pretty sure I know what I think much better than you. So speak for yourself, mk?


a mind reader ur not....lol

 

[Lord of Planar]

I'm pretty sure I know what I think much better than you. So speak for yourself, mk?


a mind reader ur not....lol

You sure are a devote apologist.

Any time someone uses that "figure of speech," it refers to a devotion based on faith.

Faith is a belief that is not supported by science.

 

[Moot]

You sure are a devote apologist.

Any time someone uses that "figure of speech," it refers to a devotion based on faith.

Faith is a belief that is not supported by science.

At no point did I ever say, nor do I think or believe that "any time" anyone uses the word 'religion' as a "figure of speech" that it only "refers to a devotion based on faith." Never, nor would I ever.

Science isn't based on faith and doesn't need faith to exist. But anyone can study science 'religously' or have a passion for it like it was a religion ....but the emotion one feels for science doesn't make it a religion in the literal sense. Science can exist without faith and devotion, but religion can't.

 

[Jack Hays]

From Climate Audit:

[h=2]Revkin’s Source[/h] In Andy Revkin’s article about Pachauri’s resignation, Revkin, apparently without awareness of the irony, included the following quotation from Grist (from The Hindu in India).

Some in India are also calling for Pachauri to step down from The Energy and Resources Institute (TERI), where he is currently on leave. “To safeguard the interest of global climate science Pachauri should step down immediately from the Chairmanship of IPCC and TERI,” Iqbal S. Hasnain, a former professor of environmental studies, told The Hindu.
​

The surname of Revkin’s informant ought to have attracted his interest.
CA readers will doubtless recall that Syed Hasnain, a scientist working at Pachauri’s TERI with the same surname as Revkin’s source, had been at the center of the false claims about glacier disappearance by 2035. See for example Delingpole here or Booker here:

What has now come to light, however, is that the scientist from whom this claim originated, Dr Syed Hasnain, has for the past two years been working as a senior employee of The Energy and Resources Institute (TERI),
​

Here’s the punchline. Syed Hasnain, the senior employee at TERI, is the same person as Iqbal S. Hasnain, formerly of Jawaharlal Nehru University.
The identity of the two can be confirmed in various ways. The article in The Hindu about Pachauri’s resignation also says that Iqbal S. Hasnain was Former Vice-Chancellor, University of Calicut, Kerala and former Professor Environmental Sciences, Jawaharlal Nehru University. Richard North here gives the full name of Syed Hasnain of TERI as Syed Iqbal Hasnain, saying that he had previously been at Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi at the time of the 2007 IPCC report, moving to TERI only after it had received lavish grants to study Himalaya glaciers. (Total grants included $500,000 from a US foundation and 3 million euro from the EU.) See presentation by Syed Iqbal Hasnain of TERI here.
Hasnain’s claim of Himalaya disappearance by 2035 was widely publicized e.g. Geoffrey Boulton here and here , IPCC vice chair van Ypersele -see here.
It turned out that Hasnain’s claim that Himalaya glaciers would gone by 2035 was without foundation. It had been contradicted in November 2009 by a report by Indian geologist V.K. Raina, a report viciously attacked by Pachauri as “voodoo science” among other expletives. Richard North’s disclosure of the financial benefit to TERI from the false information about Himalaya glaciers resulted in a challenge to Pachauri in January 2010, e.g. the Der Spiegel editorial recommending Pachauri’s resignation, with which Andrew Weaver had apparently denoted agreement to Canwest reporter Richard Foot on January 25, 2010.
Several points of irony arise. Given Hasnain’s casual science in the 2035 projection, it’s ironic that he now purports to defend the “interest of global climate science” by demanding Pachauri’s resignation. One can hardly help wondering what happened to him at TERI after the 2010 controversy. Also, given both Pachauri’s eventual resignation and the many calls for his resignation in January 2010, it’s ironic that it’s a tort in Canada to say that Andrew Weaver was one of the first to call for Pachauri’s resignation.

 

[Lord of Planar]

At no point did I ever say, nor do I think or believe that "any time" anyone uses the word 'religion' as a "figure of speech" that it only "refers to a devotion based on faith." Never, nor would I ever.

Science isn't based on faith and doesn't need faith to exist. But anyone can study science 'religously' or have a passion for it like it was a religion ....but the emotion one feels for science doesn't make it a religion in the literal sense. Science can exist without faith and devotion, but religion can't.

How can you not understand what I said?

You said his use of religion was a figure of speech. I pointed out that when that particular figure of speech is used, it is based on faith. Faith in something not factually demonstrable.

 

[Visbek]

Since the FOIA from green peace was in 2011, when was the paper submitted?
Which paper was submitted? and which journal is making the fuss?

He's published around 11 papers since 2008... Look 'em up.

New documents, including ones that provide evidence of the relevant ethics violations, were only uncovered a few days ago. The Smithsonian is looking into it. It's not clear if any of the journals will do anything; journals tend to move slowly, and can take their sweet time retracting papers.

Do they require the same standard for all submissions?

Many of the journals do, yes.

The omission of funding information is very likely an ethics violation for at least 8 of the 11 papers he's published since 2008.

 

[Jack Hays]

He's published around 11 papers since 2008... Look 'em up.

New documents, including ones that provide evidence of the relevant ethics violations, were only uncovered a few days ago. The Smithsonian is looking into it. It's not clear if any of the journals will do anything; journals tend to move slowly, and can take their sweet time retracting papers.



Many of the journals do, yes.

The omission of funding information is very likely an ethics violation for at least 8 of the 11 papers he's published since 2008.

All his funding may have been on the public record from the beginning.

 

[Moot]

How can you not understand what I said?

You said his use of religion was a figure of speech. I pointed out that when that particular figure of speech is used, it is based on faith. Faith in something not factually demonstrable.

How come you don't understand that a figure of speech doesn't mean literally?

 

[Lord of Planar]

How come you don't understand that a figure of speech doesn't mean literally?

I do understand.

are you suggesting an intelligent man, who holds such positions, made a poor choice in words?

 

[ludin]

Really, was Dr. Soon accused of sexual harassment?

does it have to be? innocent until proven guilty right? has he been proven guilty of anything? nope.

 

[ludin]

He was cleared and doesn't have any conflicts of interests. Too bad Dr. Soon can't say that.


If the sexual harassment charges prove to be true then he should step down. But until then, it just looks like contrived smear campaign by the people who don't believe in science.

well the people that actually believe in science and not wrongly calculated models and distorted heat biased temperatures aren't doing anything.

a lady that works for TERI of who he sits on the board is accusing him, and what appears to be bad news for him she has kept all of the text and email messages.
according to the article they range in the 100's.

so the only person that is smearing him is himself.

 

[Lord of Planar]

does it have to be? innocent until proven guilty right? has he been proven guilty of anything? nope.

Come on now.

Everyone knows that liberty doesn't apply during witch hunting season.

 

[ludin]

OMGNOOOOO!!!!

Oh, wait. Some of the people who work for the IPCC also publish materials on the environment, climate change, AGW. These are the kinds of things that actually make them qualified to work with the IPCC. Go figure.



Again.... Dr Soon explicitly and deliberately chose not to list his funding sources, in violation of the ethics codes of the journals who published him. The IPCC is not hiding anything, and certainly did not hide the very public and very obvious fact that Panchauri worked for TERI.



I made no such claims, nor are such claims relevant to his ethical violations.

That said: AGW/CC deniers routinely claim that climate scientists are corrupted because they're funded by governments and organizations. It seems odd that it's acceptable for Soon to take money from the oil industry and not question it, yet a climate scientist who provides evidence is suspect because of their funding sources. Oh wait, that's not odd, it's just hypocritical.



You know nothing, as I don't actually regard the IPCC as perfect, or unimpeachable, or "gospel."

Their job is to collect all the known data, across thousands of scientific papers. They do screw up every now and then, and typically correct it.



Or, you're fairly clueless.

The IPCC doesn't actually generate models. They have a panel that looks at the various models, and tries to explain those predictions to policy makers. And contrary to denier beliefs, they've been reasonably accurate. Even the 1990 models, which were far less sophisticated, weren't far off.



Erm... Did you actually read what I wrote?

Panchauri is accused of sexual harassment. The deniers are up in arms because he works for TERI, which was never kept secret from anyone, and wasn't even a criticism until this week. It just don't add up.



TERI doesn't sell carbon credits. You're apparently misinformed.

TERI is owned and setup by the TATA group that very much does trade in carbon credits.
although it is not as big as the Chicago energy exchange one of the largest carbon trading companies in the world. of course we all know who sits on their board of directors don't we?
ol yea the now defunked director of the IPCC.

no conflict of interest huh? can I have what you are smoking?

Major Change Is Needed If the IPCC Hopes to Survive by Roger A. Pielke Jr.: Yale Environment 360

As if this was not bad enough, Pachauri has faced a range of criticism for directing more than a quarter of a million dollars in consulting and appearance fees over the past several years to the non-profit organization that he directs in India. These payments came from companies and investors with a direct stake in the outcome of climate policy negotiations, including Deutsche Bank, the Asian Development Bank, and the Pegasus investment fund. Pachauri has not helped the image of the IPCC by responding forcefully but unpersuasively, explaining that his many business connections — such as enhanced oil recovery and carbon trading operations — are in the common interest, rendering any sort of conflict of interest policies unnecessary.

yea no conflict of interest at all. LOL you can continue to drink the kool aid but people aren't buying it anymore.

 

[Moot]

well the people that actually believe in science and not wrongly calculated models and distorted heat biased temperatures aren't doing anything.

a lady that works for TERI of who he sits on the board is accusing him, and what appears to be bad news for him she has kept all of the text and email messages.
according to the article they range in the 100's.

so the only person that is smearing him is himself.

Well, if Pachauri is found guilty of the sexual harassment charges then he should step down. Until then he's not guilty. :shrug:

 

[ludin]

The jury is still out but if Pachauri is guilty of the charges then he should step down. :shrug:

he is already out. he stepped down and should have stepped down a long time ago.
unfortunately the IPCC is still under control of extremists that have distorted the science.

however having the major contributor to this farce removed maybe we can have some real science actually happen.

 

[Moot]

he is already out. he stepped down and should have stepped down a long time ago.
unfortunately the IPCC is still under control of extremists that have distorted the science.

however having the major contributor to this farce removed maybe we can have some real science actually happen.

MK..whatever.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Well, if Pachauri is found guilty of the sexual harassment charges then he should step down. Until then he's not guilty. :shrug:

Guilty or not of sexual harassment, how does that affect his job?

Often, people step down just because it's too large of a distraction. Can't focus on both.

 

[Threegoofs]

TERI Salaries | Glassdoor

LOL.

Your link shows one salary of 500k rupees.

You know that's about $8000 USD, right?

Classic.

 

[Moot]

Guilty or not of sexual harassment, how does that affect his job?

Often, people step down just because it's too large of a distraction. Can't focus on both.

I dunno, you're the mind reader.

 

[Visbek]

TERI is owned and setup by the TATA group that very much does trade in carbon credits.

Egads. You're proposing conspiracy theories, not facts.

TATA is a large company that started TERI in the 1970s. Their businesses vary from cars to steel to chemicals to energy to telecom to insurance. TATA does not make money off of trading carbon credits; all they do is run a few sustainable power generation facilities that happen to qualify for carbon credits. TERI now receives funds from a number of government agencies, international corporations, and foundations; they are certainly not beholden to TATA.

Your characterizations of TERI as "a think tank that makes millions selling carbon credits" is flat wrong. TERI doesn't sell or trade carbon credits. TERI is not in thrall to TATA. Pachauri is not an employee of TATA. TATA doesn't make millions trading carbon credits. The IPCC doesn't award contracts. If the IPCC did not exist, TERI would still have lots of work to do.

And again, the allegations of conflicts of interest -- the source of this "carbon trading!" nonsense -- were never substantiated. They were so thin, the Telegraph had to apologize publicly to him, and pay £100k of Pachauri's legal fees.

Dr Pachauri - Apology - Telegraph

Please try to keep the facts straight.

 

[jmotivator]

Phillip Morris is a for-profit corporation, which is actively trying to sell its products.

TERI is not a for-profit corporation that focuses on a variety of activities (not all directly connected to climate issues), and is not selling services to the IPCC or the UN.

Every single person who works for TERI profits from the IPCC declarations. It's called a job.

I cannot imagine a situation where the CEO of Phillip Morris did not receive any compensation for his or her work.

Your lack of imagination is not an argument.

If he/she did, PM would still be a commercial entity, and the CEO would be obligated to (among other things) enhance value for the shareholders.

So are carbon credits, so are wind farms, and so on. TERI's research grants vanish if the world stops putting a priority on alternative energy.

But we can change it up if your anti-corporate bias is poisoning your reasoning ability:

Let's say it turns out that the head of a tea party organization is also a judge on a case involving the constitutionality of the corporate tax (the judge is not a member of any corporations).... is this a conflict of interest?

Or not. They focus mostly on sustainability, environmental and resource issues, primarily in India. They do energy audits of commercial entities in India; waste and water planning studies; workshops for encouraging small businesses to be more energy efficient; helping plan a wildlife sanctuary in Bihar, and so on.

You've become so lost that you don't even recognize half of those as dependent on AGW theory.

The majority of their work is in India.

So? They stood to make $1.2 billions from closing a steel plant in the UK, and that was before TATA opened an equal capacity steel mill in India immediately after.

IPCC head stands to make money from CO2 mediation - Newark Essex County Conservative | Examiner.com

The Telegraph withdrew the claim that Pauchari benefited directly, but not that organizations that he ran benefited. Pachauri could be driven solely by the benevolent desire to better his companies and enrich his employees and it is still a conflict of interest.

There is no evidence that the IPCC (a United Nations organization) is pressuring any nations to engage TERI for any services.

It doesn't have to. The business that TERI is in benefits from the narrative that AGW is a grave concern for the world. It sells services specifically to mitigate these fears.

You've got a very thin thread here. You're basically saying that because TERI works on sustainability issues, and the IPCC works on AGW, there is some "conflict of interest" -- even though the IPCC basically isn't hiring TERI to do anything, and does not seem to be pressuring any member nations to hire TERI.

TATA -- Pauchari has been CEO since the early 80s -- is the largest private company in India, the work of TERI in the UK and elsewhere in the world has created business opportunities for TATA, these opportunities have arisen from the AGW narrative of the IPCC. Pauchari is a leading figure in all there phases of that symbiotic relationship. Hell, even the AGW faithful knew that Pauchari was a money guy, not a scientist:

"Why should not an Indian scientist chair IPCC? One could argue the CC issue is more important for the South[ern Hemisphere] than for the North[ern]. Watson has perhaps thrown his weight about too much in the past. The science is well covered by Susan Solomon in WGI, so why not get an engineer/economist since many of the issues now raised by CC are more to do with energy and money, than natural science." - Email from Mike Hume to Phil Jones

You don't even seem to understand what TERI does. Unsurprisingly, this results in your failure to understand that there is no conflict of interest here.

You don't seem to understand what TATA does.

 

[Visbek]

:beatdeadhorse

Every single person who works for TERI profits from the IPCC declarations. It's called a job.

Again: No, they don't. TERI does lots of things that have nothing whatsoever to do with the IPCC. If you had even a basic understanding of that organization, and what they do, you'd know that.

Your lack of imagination is not an argument.

My comments were an indicator of how utterly ludicrous it would be to suggest that the CEO of Philip Morris would not take or receive compensation.

So are carbon credits, so are wind farms, and so on. TERI's research grants vanish if the world stops putting a priority on alternative energy.

Again... No, they don't. They do lots of work on sustainability, which is absolutely critical in a resource-scarce and high-population nation like India. Again, you merely reveal a total ignorance and presumption of what TERI does.

Let's say it turns out that the head of a tea party organization is also a judge on a case involving the constitutionality of the corporate tax (the judge is not a member of any corporations).... is this a conflict of interest?

No.

It's only a conflict of interest if (basically) the judge is presiding over a case involving a company, with which she/he is doing business, or owns stock, or has a seat on the board. I.e. if the judge stands to directly benefit from an outcome in the case, the judge is obligated to recuse herself/himself from the case.

You've become so lost that you don't even recognize half of those as dependent on AGW theory.

No, it's because I recognize that energy, water, land and other resources are very scarce in India. Similarly, many companies hire TERI to do energy audits; this is not because of AGW, but because energy costs money, and if you can cut down energy usage then your company can save money.

They stood to make $1.2 billions from closing a steel plant in the UK, and that was before TATA opened an equal capacity steel mill in India immediately after.

That's nice. However, Pachauri does not work for TATA, has never worked for TATA, and TERI has many many other sources of funding.

IPCC head stands to make money from CO2 mediation - Newark Essex County Conservative | Examiner.com

For at least the 3rd time, these claims were never substantiated. They were aired 5 years ago, and it's never been proven. And no, I don't buy anyone trying to weasel out of it.

It doesn't have to. The business that TERI is in benefits from the narrative that AGW is a grave concern for the world. It sells services specifically to mitigate these fears.

You don't seem to actually understand what they do, so this claim has little merit.

TATA -- Pauchari has been CEO since the early 80s

Incorrect.

Here's a list of the heads of TATA:
Head of group[edit]
Jamsetji Tata (1868-1904)
Dorabji Tata (1904–1932)
Nowroji Saklatwala (1932–1938)
J. R. D. Tata (1938–1991)
Ratan Tata (1991–2012)
Cyrus Pallonji Mistry (2012–Present)

Pachauri has never worked for TATA. He's been working for TERI since the 80s.

Please leave the dead horse alone, kthx.

 

[jmotivator]

:beatdeadhorse
Again: No, they don't. TERI does lots of things that have nothing whatsoever to do with the IPCC. If you had even a basic understanding of that organization, and what they do, you'd know that.

That TERI "does a lot of things" is immaterial. Especially if you can't even be arsed to show that TERI isn't heavily invested in AGW mitigation ventures.l

My comments were an indicator of how utterly ludicrous it would be to suggest that the CEO of Philip Morris would not take or receive compensation.

Like I said, your inability to imagine such a thing is purely a product of your own biases and a way to avoid addressing the analogy. This of course is one of the reasons why I chose Philip Morris. Same scenario but with a corporation you don't like and you are so mortified you have to change the scenario to make you feel better.

Again... No, they don't. They do lots of work on sustainability, which is absolutely critical in a resource-scarce and high-population nation like India. Again, you merely reveal a total ignorance and presumption of what TERI does.

Which also aids my argument. The central function of the AGW policy is to move huge sums of money and resources from the first world to the third world. Like, for instance, a steel mill from the UK to India.

No.

It's only a conflict of interest if (basically) the judge is presiding over a case involving a company, with which she/he is doing business, or owns stock, or has a seat on the board. I.e. if the judge stands to directly benefit from an outcome in the case, the judge is obligated to recuse herself/himself from the case.

False. For the same reason a jurist would be excused from that case for having conflict for having a preconceived judgment on the case, so would the Judge have a conflict.

No, it's because I recognize that energy, water, land and other resources are very scarce in India. Similarly, many companies hire TERI to do energy audits; this is not because of AGW, but because energy costs money, and if you can cut down energy usage then your company can save money.

So you like to just ignore TATA and TERI's international reach then?

That's nice. However, Pachauri does not work for TATA, has never worked for TATA, and TERI has many many other sources of funding.

Yes, he does. For 29 years of its existence (and 21 years under the management of Rajendra K. Pachauri) the first "T" stood for "TATA" because it is a subsidiary of the TATA Group. TERI was founded in 1974 as a division of the TATA Group. TERI originally stood for "TATA ENERGY RESEARCH INSTITUTE", and only dropped the "TATA" in favor of "The" when it became politically expedient to do so in 2003 after Pachauri was elected chairman of the IPCC.

For at least the 3rd time, these claims were never substantiated. They were aired 5 years ago, and it's never been proven. And no, I don't buy anyone trying to weasel out of it.

Again FALSE. What was shown 5 years ago was that Pachauri didn't directly benefit from the move, but TERI and TATA most definitely DID. In fact, all the that Telegraph corrected was that all the money went to TERI, not Pachauri.

You don't seem to actually understand what they do, so this claim has little merit.

I understand perfectly well what they do.

So tell me, though, out of curiosity, how does a the chairman of an organization that that you claim has no connection with AGW wind up as head of the IPCC?

Incorrect.

Here's a list of the heads of TATA:
Head of group[edit]
Jamsetji Tata (1868-1904)
Dorabji Tata (1904–1932)
Nowroji Saklatwala (1932–1938)
J. R. D. Tata (1938–1991)
Ratan Tata (1991–2012)
Cyrus Pallonji Mistry (2012–Present)

Pachauri has never worked for TATA. He's been working for TERI since the 80s.

Please leave the dead horse alone, kthx.

Sorry, I mean he was the head of TATA ENERGY RESEARCH INSTITUTE.

 

[ludin]

Egads. You're proposing conspiracy theories, not facts.

TATA is a large company that started TERI in the 1970s. Their businesses vary from cars to steel to chemicals to energy to telecom to insurance. TATA does not make money off of trading carbon credits; all they do is run a few sustainable power generation facilities that happen to qualify for carbon credits. TERI now receives funds from a number of government agencies, international corporations, and foundations; they are certainly not beholden to TATA.

Your characterizations of TERI as "a think tank that makes millions selling carbon credits" is flat wrong. TERI doesn't sell or trade carbon credits. TERI is not in thrall to TATA. Pachauri is not an employee of TATA. TATA doesn't make millions trading carbon credits. The IPCC doesn't award contracts. If the IPCC did not exist, TERI would still have lots of work to do.

And again, the allegations of conflicts of interest -- the source of this "carbon trading!" nonsense -- were never substantiated. They were so thin, the Telegraph had to apologize publicly to him, and pay £100k of Pachauri's legal fees.

Dr Pachauri - Apology - Telegraph

Please try to keep the facts straight.

yeah you might want to get you own facts straight.
TERI, TATA are all involved in setting up carbon trading companies around the world.

TERI helped form the Chicago Energy exchange. of who once again he sits on the board.
TERI gets funding from AGW nut jobs.

it isn't conspiracy it is called facts you need to learn some.

all of these company and people benefit from the IPCC, and it's push of the AGW scam.

 

[Jack Hays]

[h=1]Out on bail, IPCC’s Pachauri’s downward spiral continues: Resignation from the Indian Climate Council[/h] Pachauri’s withdrawal from public life continues Story submitted by Eric Worrall Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi has today accepted Rajendra Pachauri’s resignation from the Prime Minister’s climate change council. According to the Indian Express; “R K Pachauri, who has been accused of sexual harassment, has resigned from the Prime Minister’s Council on Climate Change as…
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