Has an Undocumented Immigrant Ever Harmed You Personally?

[btthegreat]

There is such a thing as overkill. Especially when they all basically say the same thing and push the same agenda.

We all push an agenda. Its an efficient use of time to condense your pushing into an hour.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Only focusing on some of the threat isn't enough.

An unsecure border -- which is what you get when you ignore immigration law enforcement -- is clear and present security risk. If you're okay with that risk, fine. To argue there isn't a risk beyond foolish.

I think this is a BS argument when it comes to apologizing for Trump's awful policies.

• Deporting someone who is not a security threat, even if they entered improperly, doesn't make the country more secure.
• And deporting someone who is otherwise hardworking, peaceful, and contributing to our society actually makes our country worse off.
• And deporting millions of people who are otherwise hardworking, peaceful, and contributing to our society greatly harms our country.

On a moral level, you and other immigration hardliners treat an improper border crossing as if it were some horrendous crime. But it's not. Someone crossing the border to look for a job to survive and feed their family is not a bad person, and they've only committed a misdemeanor.

The truth is it's just a security headache for the U.S. government. Yes, we should secure the border, but that doesn't give the Trump administration or Trump supporters license to treat immigrants like animals, such as sending immigrants who have no criminal record, without due process, to CECOT to be beaten and sexually abused. By the way,. I do not recall you saying one word about that.

The emphasis should be on the policy of securing the border, not punishing individual immigrants who are otherwise contributing to our society. Those two things should be separated in our minds, not stuck together.

And with respect to the crime itself, improperly crossing the border, it should be taken in its proper perspective. Most Trump supporters view this act as something close to murder or rape. And it's just not. All it is is crossing an imaginary line on a map to look for a job. And the criminal statute exists not because it is wrong in and of itself, but because it serves an administrative goal. It's merely a means to an end: it makes it easier for the U.S. government to secure the border. But there are other ways of securing the border.

And if you want to make the argument that they should be fined or deported, and made to come back through legally (which is usually a bullshit argument because most immigration hardliners don't want any immigration at all), okay fine, make that argument. But don't confuse that argument with border security. Because some day laborer at Home Depot looking for a job is an asset, not a liability, and certainly not a security threat.

 

[NatMorton]

I think this is a BS argument when it comes to apologizing for Trump's awful policies.

• Deporting someone who is not a security threat, even if they entered improperly, doesn't make the country more secure.
• And deporting someone who is otherwise hardworking, peaceful, and contributing to our society actually makes our country worse off.
• And deporting millions of people who are otherwise hardworking, peaceful, and contributing to our society greatly harms our country.

On a moral level, you and other immigration hardliners treat an improper border crossing as if it were some horrendous crime. But it's not. Someone crossing the border to look for a job to survive and feed their family is not a bad person, and they've only committed a misdemeanor.

The truth is it's just a security headache for the U.S. government. Yes, we should secure the border, but that doesn't give the Trump administration or Trump supporters license to treat immigrants like animals, such as sending immigrants who have no criminal record, without due process, to CECOT to be beaten and sexually abused. By the way,. I do not recall you saying one word about that.

The emphasis should be on the policy of securing the border, not punishing individual immigrants who are otherwise contributing to our society. Those two things should be separated in our minds, not stuck together.

And with respect to the crime itself, improperly crossing the border, it should be taken in its proper perspective. Most Trump supporters view this act as something close to murder or rape. And it's just not. All it is is crossing an imaginary line on a map to look for a job. And the criminal statute exists not because it is wrong in and of itself, but because it serves an administrative goal. It's merely a means to an end: it makes it easier for the U.S. government to secure the border. But there are other ways of securing the border.

And if you want to make the argument that they should be fined or deported, and made to come back through legally (which is usually a bullshit argument because most immigration hardliners don't want any immigration at all), okay fine, make that argument. But don't confuse that argument with border security. Because some day laborer at Home Depot looking for a job is an asset, not a liability, and certainly not a security threat.

It might seem to be BS for anyone too young to remember it was lax border and visa security protocols that allowed the 9/11 hijackers to enter the country and enroll in a commercial pilot training program in Florida.

If your borders are not secure, your nation is not secure.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

It might seem to be BS for anyone too young to remember it was lax border and visa security protocols that allowed the 9/11 hijackers to enter the country and enroll in a commercial pilot training program in Florida.

Deporting hard-working day laborers is not going to prevent terrorism in any way, shape, or form.

And there are risks in the opposite direction, okay? Having a dynamic economy where we allow foreigners to participate accelerates economic growth and scientific progress. But, right now, Trump is making life difficult for foreign experts and foreign students to study, live, and work in our economy. Think about all the people who will die as a result of stunted economic growth and a reduced rate of scientific progress.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

If your borders are not secure, your nation is not secure.

I agree with you that our border should be secure.

I do not agree with you that deporting day laborers makes our country more secure.

You think deporting millions of people is going to make our country more secure, it will not, it will just must us weaker.

 

[NatMorton]

Deporting hard-working day laborers is not going to prevent terrorism in any way, shape, or form.

But maintaining the status quo that allowed so many to enter the country will, and that's the point.

And there are risks in the opposite direction, okay? Having a dynamic economy where we allow foreigners to participate accelerates economic growth and scientific progress. But, right now, Trump is making life difficult for foreign experts and foreign students to study, live, and work in our economy. Think about all the people who will die as a result of stunted economic growth and a reduced rate of scientific progress.

Then let's define (and enforce) a legal, guest worker program.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Some see no reason to have, much less, enforce immigration laws. If those laws can be done away with, or ignored with impunity, then why not other laws which certain folks see no reason to obey?

Why pay dump or trash collection fees when it’s free and easy to dump trash along the roadside?

I see where you are going.

Why not follow several of the "sanctuary city" examples who've also reduced theft crimes to minor offenses if the total stolen by each individual is less than $900.00? That allows gangs of "young scholars" to break into stores to steal food, electronics, clothing, etc. with impunity because even if caught they will be released within 24 hours or less on no bail and with a warning.

Clearly these kids deserve to take what they want because they needed it.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I see where you are going.

Why not follow several of the "sanctuary city" examples who've also reduced theft crimes to minor offenses if the total stolen by each individual is less than $900.00? That allows gangs of "young scholars" to break into stores to steal food, electronics, clothing, etc. with impunity because even if caught they will be released within 24 hours or less on no bail and with a warning.

Clearly these kids deserve to take what they want because they needed it.

The problem is compounded by either not prosecuting or allowing wrist slap plea deals for the resulting misdemeanor(s).

 

[Sage077]

Has an Undocumented Immigrant Ever Harmed You Personally?

--

Every day on this forum we hear how "terrible illegal immigrants" are, and how they are "ruining the country."

Well, now is your time to shine.

Please tell us what an "illegal" has ever done to hurt you personally.

For a nation that has been comprised of immigrants ("legal" and illegal) from the beginnig ....(after killing almost all the native residents that were the ORIGINAL population ........ it is pathetic to see the prejudice against "illegal" immigrants...... Instead of makingit so hard for them to become citizens of the country.......they are rejected now. Many of them have served The country well.....economically , culturally, etc. Being so desperate , they arewilling to work for almost nothing.......while the rich take advantage of their plight.

They don't come to the country to hurt anyone.....they come for what they believe will be a better life than what they left behind.
It is a sad statement about the inhumanity of the current attitude against them.........Makes" we welcome, the poor. the hungry .......etc.......a giant LIE. Only the RICH are welcome.

 

[Sage077]

How many of the mass shooters that the country is now known for were "illegal " ??? They were Americans with major psychological problems , that were untreated and ended up in horrific tragedies. America does not understand the psychology of human nature , nor does it have the critical (affordable) health care for those with problems.... so these tragedies would be prevented as much as they could be. Illegals are now being blamed , and used as an excuse for other agenda.......and that shows how insane the country has become.

 

[ttwtt78640]

For a nation that has been comprised of immigrants ("legal" and illegal) from the beginnig ....(after killing almost all the native residents that were the ORIGINAL population ........ it is pathetic to see the prejudice against "illegal" immigrants...... Instead of makingit so hard for them to become citizens of the country.......they are rejected now. Many of them have served The country well.....economically , culturally, etc. Being so desperate , they arewilling to work for almost nothing.......while the rich take advantage of their plight.

They don't come to the country to hurt anyone.....they come for what they believe will be a better life than what they left behind.
It is a sad statement about the inhumanity of the current attitude against them.........Makes" we welcome, the poor. the hungry .......etc.......a giant LIE. Only the RICH are welcome.

At least two billion foreign nationals would be better off in the US than in their nation of birth.

 

[Old 'N Chill]

Has an Undocumented Immigrant Ever Harmed You Personally?

--

Every day on this forum we hear how "terrible illegal immigrants" are, and how they are "ruining the country."

Well, now is your time to shine.

Please tell us what an "illegal" has ever done to hurt you personally.

NO.

 

[Sage077]

Never been harmed by any immigrant. Have assisted quite a few in transferring Visas and finding employers that would sponsor them for a green card.

Our immigration system is a nightmare. It needs to be fixed.

Indeed. and instead of fixing it in a rational, logical , and constructive way.......the "policy" has gone radical/ extreme and inhumane. Aggressive and cruel conduct to immigrants.......is becoming the signature default method in the country.

 

[Sage077]

At least two billion foreign nationals would be better off in the US than in their nation of birth.

You are probably right. So why does the wealthy US not work with those countries to bring their standard of living up .....with assistance in education, health care........ Educate them to help themselves in creating more productive places to live. That way....they don't feel they HAVE to leave country of origin , and don't have to adjust to a different culture. They can learn t maximize their own.

 

[ttwtt78640]

You are probably right. So why does the wealthy US not work with those countries to bring their standard of living up .....with assistance in education, health care........ Educate them to help themselves in creating more productive places to live. That way....they don't feel they HAVE to leave country of origin , and don't have to adjust to a different culture. They can learn t maximize their own.

The wealthy US government, which runs $2T annual “budget” deficits, or the wealthy US corporations which would rather offshore production where labor an regulatory compliance costs are lower?

 

[Rogue Valley]

I served with some illegals. They more than carried their weight and I'd trust them before I trusted the morally bankrupt American MAGAts on this board.

Sweet Jesus. Masked ICE goons are even yanking immigrant children out of grammar schools for a one-way trip to a detention center.

Why are they masked and wearing SWAT gear to arrest kids? Whatever happened to deporting the "worst of the worst" as Trump promised?

ICE vowed to target violent undocumented immigrants, but only 6% accused of murder have been arrested

ICE promised to arrest undocumented immigrants accused of murder, but only 6% have been detained—raising concerns about enforcement's approach.

www.nbcchicago.com