• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Has American Society Become Too Fragmented?

TimmyBoy

Banned
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Messages
1,466
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
When I went out in the country to visit my relatives, I had such a ball and such fun and a blast. People would smile at you and genuinely mean it. Back in my hometown in the city, when people smiled at you, at times you weren't so sure if they meant and when you turned your back they could have been talking about you. In the country, I saw people full of life. When I returned to the city I saw superficiality and people who were empty. Here is a quote from my favorite intellectualist Noam Chomsky:

"The ideal is to create a completely fragmented atomized society where everybody is totally alone, doing nothing but trying to pursue created wants, and the wants are created" -Noam Chomsky
 

Saboteur

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
Messages
2,315
Reaction score
134
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
TimmyBoy said:
When I went out in the country to visit my relatives, I had such a ball and such fun and a blast. People would smile at you and genuinely mean it. Back in my hometown in the city, when people smiled at you, at times you weren't so sure if they meant and when you turned your back they could have been talking about you. In the country, I saw people full of life. When I returned to the city I saw superficiality and people who were empty. Here is a quote from my favorite intellectualist Noam Chomsky:

"The ideal is to create a completely fragmented atomized society where everybody is totally alone, doing nothing but trying to pursue created wants, and the wants are created" -Noam Chomsky

I can argree with this. Currently we are a television and internet culture. I feel that being exposed to this type of entertainment with it's roller coaster of moods and situations is making us schizophrenic emotionally. One minute your experiancing the heat of a drama to be interuppted by a commercial telling you how great it is that herpes doesn't have to be a problem. Or to rush out and buy some product that you don't really need. Which at least contributes to the air of complacentcy fueled by consumerism I've encountered with people.
 

UtahBill

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
18,265
Reaction score
6,648
Location
Utah
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
TimmyBoy said:
"The ideal is to create a completely fragmented atomized society where everybody is totally alone, doing nothing but trying to pursue created wants, and the wants are created" -Noam Chomsky
Surely there is more to that quote? Is he being sarcastic? Making fun of what is, in light of what should be?

I think we are fragmented, but by selfish interests more than anything else.
I know conservatives who vote based on the single issue of low taxes, and liberals who vote on the single issue of abortion. Both are being stupid.

Once we isolate ourselves from the greater whole of society, we become useless to society, and if we are useless, we deserve less. The benefits of society should go to those who participate in its processes, and strive to contribute to its efforts to make us a better people and nation.
Those are liberal, and dare I say it, Christian ideals.
So both ends of the political spectrum SHOULD be able to agree that ultimate fragmentation of our society is not a good thing.
 

Iriemon

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
19,405
Reaction score
2,187
Location
Miami
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Why would you think we are fragmented? We have a wonderful uniter as the president. When he makes decisions, he listens to the opinions and concerns of all side of the issue, and then tries to find a compromise that will be reasonable to all.

Why, I don't think our country has been so unified since, oh, 1970 or so.
 

cnredd

Major General Big Lug
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
8,682
Reaction score
262
Location
Philadelphia,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Iriemon said:
Why would you think we are fragmented? We have a wonderful uniter as the president. When he makes decisions, he listens to the opinions and concerns of all side of the issue, and then tries to find a compromise that will be reasonable to all.

Why, I don't think our country has been so unified since, oh, 1970 or so.
It is impossible to unite people unless they are willing to unite...Many in the Democratic party that obstruct now will reflexively turn 180 degrees should a Democratic President be elected in 2008...Then they'll say, "NOW were ready to unite."...

They like the idea, but only when its under their "banner"...
 

Iriemon

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
19,405
Reaction score
2,187
Location
Miami
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
cnredd said:
It is impossible to unite people unless they are willing to unite...Many in the Democratic party that obstruct now will reflexively turn 180 degrees should a Democratic President be elected in 2008...Then they'll say, "NOW were ready to unite."...

They like the idea, but only when its under their "banner"...
This is true, when your idea of being a uniter is "do it my way or the highway" and "if you not with us your against us."

Many of us didn't realize when Bush said he was going to be a "uniter" what he meant was that every one was supposed to agree with his pro-debt pro-rich neocon agenda.
 

Saboteur

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
Messages
2,315
Reaction score
134
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Iriemon said:
This is true, when your idea of being a uniter is "do it my way or the highway" and "if you not with us your against us."

Many of us didn't realize when Bush said he was going to be a "uniter" what he meant was that every one was supposed to agree with his pro-debt pro-rich neocon agenda.
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."—Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

"I believe if you want to be negative you always can, no matter how hard you try."—Internationally televised News Event, June 15, 2004

"See, free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction."—Milwaukee, Wis., Oct. 3, 2003

"There may be some tough times here in America. But this country has gone through tough times before, and we're going to do it again."—Waco, Texas, Aug. 13, 2002

"This is a world that is much more uncertain than the past. In the past we were certain, we were certain it was us versus the Russians in the past. We were certain, and therefore we had huge nuclear arsenals aimed at each other to keep the peace. That's what we were certain of...You see, even though it's an uncertain world, we're certain of some things. We're certain that even though the 'evil empire' may have passed, evil still remains. We're certain there are people that can't stand what America stands for...We're certain there are madmen in this world, and there's terror, and there's missiles and I'm certain of this, too: I'm certain to maintain the peace, we better have a military of high morale, and I'm certain that under this administration, morale in the military is dangerously low."—Albuquerque, N.M., the Washington Post, May 31, 2000


Yeah he means what he says.
 

Iriemon

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
19,405
Reaction score
2,187
Location
Miami
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Saboteur said:
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."—Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

"I believe if you want to be negative you always can, no matter how hard you try."—Internationally televised News Event, June 15, 2004

"See, free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction."—Milwaukee, Wis., Oct. 3, 2003

"There may be some tough times here in America. But this country has gone through tough times before, and we're going to do it again."—Waco, Texas, Aug. 13, 2002

"This is a world that is much more uncertain than the past. In the past we were certain, we were certain it was us versus the Russians in the past. We were certain, and therefore we had huge nuclear arsenals aimed at each other to keep the peace. That's what we were certain of...You see, even though it's an uncertain world, we're certain of some things. We're certain that even though the 'evil empire' may have passed, evil still remains. We're certain there are people that can't stand what America stands for...We're certain there are madmen in this world, and there's terror, and there's missiles and I'm certain of this, too: I'm certain to maintain the peace, we better have a military of high morale, and I'm certain that under this administration, morale in the military is dangerously low."—Albuquerque, N.M., the Washington Post, May 31, 2000


Yeah he means what he says.
Interesting. Thought provoking. Irrelevant.
 

FinnMacCool

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
2,272
Reaction score
153
Location
South Shore of Long Island.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
It is impossible to unite people unless they are willing to unite...Many in the Democratic party that obstruct now will reflexively turn 180 degrees should a Democratic President be elected in 2008...Then they'll say, "NOW were ready to unite."...

They like the idea, but only when its under their "banner"...
the democratic party? Screw the democratic party. President Bush isn't going to get me to unite with him regardless of what the ****ing democratic hypocrites party has to say about it. And I'm never gonna unite with them thats for sure nor any other hypocrite that sits in the white house or in the senate.

This is exactly our problem. cnredd has pinpointed, though I don't think he meant to. Whatever the hell the democratic party believes doesn't mean anything. It should be the same for you too, cnredd, when it comes to your republican party. You guys aren't stupid. If you were you wouldn't be on a debate forum. So you should recognize by now how dangerous these loyalites to these parties are? I'm seriously quickly starting to believe that they will be the end for us. They keep stability but they don't progress whether left right up or down. You all should recognize this. That goes for everyone. We seriously need to abandon these parties.

But thats a seperate issue. . .I only said it here because cnredd made me say it. :2razz:
 

128shot

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Messages
1,258
Reaction score
31
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I think american society has lost alot of things. We've lost our intelligence.


I'm not saying that our schools are shitty this or shitty that, but in general we have come to fear an intelligent human being-or loathe.


You will notice a popular trend in our culture-it can be compared to others I think-that everything is about "the common man"-the common man isn't responsible for all the innovations in the world-a fraction of the population-about 1%-(NOT including wealthy, mind you)-have and always will be the leaders in our life that struggle for the general needs of everyone else.

Once the population starts straining away from participation in such a course-you tend end up with a 2 party shame system-to be frank.


Once we embrace an intelligent course then maybe society will become something worth more than Seinfield and Larry the cable guy.


I should note I'm not saying we're "dumb" either
 

Saboteur

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
Messages
2,315
Reaction score
134
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Iriemon said:
Interesting. Thought provoking. Irrelevant.
Pompus. Jerky. Like a fart in the wind.

Seriously, I was just trying to agree with you and have a laugh.
 
Last edited:

Iriemon

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
19,405
Reaction score
2,187
Location
Miami
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Saboteur said:
Pompus. Jerky. Like a fart in the wind.

Seriously, I was just trying to agree with you and have a laugh.
LOL - I didn't understand your point.

Pretty fair description of my post, however. :)
 

Saboteur

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
Messages
2,315
Reaction score
134
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Iriemon said:
LOL - I didn't understand your point.

Pretty fair description of my post, however. :)

Well Bushisms do kind of throw people off. Except for weapons of mass destruction I don't think he's ever lied. Not that I think he realizes he's telling the truth either.

"And, you know, it'll take time to restore chaos and order" —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 13, 2003

He's done a pretty good job of restoring chaos.
 

Iriemon

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
19,405
Reaction score
2,187
Location
Miami
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Saboteur said:
Well Bushisms do kind of throw people off. Except for weapons of mass destruction I don't think he's ever lied. Not that I think he realizes he's telling the truth either.

"And, you know, it'll take time to restore chaos and order" —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 13, 2003

He's done a pretty good job of restoring chaos.
IMO, Bush made exagerrations, omissions, and misimplications that were calculated to convince the population to support the invasion on the grounds that Hussein's Iraq was a major terrorist state, was involved in 9/11, and had WMDs that he had near term plans to use on us. He successfully convinced a significant portion of the population that these things were true, through the knowing use of exagerrations, omissions, and misimplications.

We can debate whether a specific statement was a "lie" as to whether the facts asserted were literally true or not (eg did we really discover WMDs?). That is, we can argue about that it depends on what your definition of "is" is. But IMO, just as with Clinton, it doesn't matter that you can argue technicalities (is oral sex sexual relations?). The Bush administration intentionally misrepresented the threat of Iraq and the need for war to the US public and the world.
 

Saboteur

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
Messages
2,315
Reaction score
134
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Iriemon said:
IMO, Bush made exagerrations, omissions, and misimplications that were calculated to convince the population to support the invasion on the grounds that Hussein's Iraq was a major terrorist state, was involved in 9/11, and had WMDs that he had near term plans to use on us. He successfully convinced a significant portion of the population that these things were true, through the knowing use of exagerrations, omissions, and misimplications.

We can debate whether a specific statement was a "lie" as to whether the facts asserted were literally true or not (eg did we really discover WMDs?). That is, we can argue about that it depends on what your definition of "is" is. But IMO, just as with Clinton, it doesn't matter that you can argue technicalities (is oral sex sexual relations?). The Bush administration intentionally misrepresented the threat of Iraq and the need for war to the US public and the world.
Oh, I agree 100%. I remember watching his speeches... and the look of disbelief on his face when the crowd appluaded.

He's a shifty guy.
 
Top Bottom