Hamas Says It Agrees to Release All Hostages in Gaza

[L88]

* and they are full citizens, serve in the highest levels of government and live better, freer lives than Arabs do in any other Middle Eastern state.

Yep
Christians, Druze and Muslim

 

[Decypher]

That is not war. Gaza retained autonomy for activities not related to pursuit of military aggression against Israel.

You are engaging in false equivalence. Restriction on certain imports is not war.

The best response to a bad decision is to stop making further bad decisions.

You said Israel relinquished control of Gaza. But that’s not true. The enclave was blockaded by Israel with people and goods not allowed in or out. That’s a siege.

Isreal also continued military operations many times in Gaza prior to 2023. I detailed them earlier but they usually involved mass civilian deaths, destruction of property and collective punishment.

The Gazans are desperate and have been for decades due to Israel’s oppression of them. You think any support for Hamas is a bad decision, they seemingly don’t agree.

Anyway, I’m finding this back and forth a bit tedious. Your points are basic and when I refute them, you come back with silly semantics. Peace.

 

[snakestretcher]

Cool. What you were asked was:

Do you deny widespread rape (your equivocating suggests "yes"?), and
Do you deny that al-Ahli - which HAMAS claimed was hit by IDF aerial bombing - was in fact struck by a malfunctioning Palestinian rocket?

I don't know if any rapes were "widespread", and neither do you. I also don't know about the rocket. and neither do you. Neither of us were there, nor were the international media, forbidden entry to Gaza by Israel, and who could have either confirmed or rejected those claims. See how easy this is? Don't listen to propaganda. As one notable Republican senator once said, "When war comes the first casualty is truth". Hiram W. Johnson.

 

[L88]

You said Israel relinquished control of Gaza. But that’s not true. The enclave was blockaded by Israel with people and goods not allowed in or out. That’s a siege.

Isreal also continued military operations many times in Gaza prior to 2023. I detailed them earlier but they usually involved mass civilian deaths, destruction of property and collective punishment.

The Gazans are desperate and have been for decades due to Israel’s oppression of them. You think any support for Hamas is a bad decision, they seemingly don’t agree.

Anyway, I’m finding this back and forth a bit tedious. Your points are basic and when I refute them, you come back with silly semantics. Peace.

With billions fed to Hamas, you would have thought they could spend it on something better than rockets and tunnels.

 

[snakestretcher]

21%of the population in Israel is Arab.

I'm aware of that. Your point?

 

[L88]

I'm aware of that. Your point?

That your post was false.

 

[snakestretcher]

With billions fed to Hamas, you would have thought they could spend it on something better than rockets and tunnels.

With billions fed to Israel, you would have thought they could spend it better than on tanks, rockets, artillery and drones.

 

[snakestretcher]

I

That your post was false.

In what way?

 

[L88]

[QU
OTE="snakestretcher, post: 1082166532, member: 34337"]
With billions fed to Israel, you would have thought they could spend it better than on tanks, rockets, artillery and drones.
[/QUOTE]

Israel would have been destroyed many times over.
The military action in Gaza was brought on by your Hamas buddies.

 

[cpwill]

I don't know if any rapes were "widespread", and neither do you. I also don't know about the rocket. and neither do you.

Uh-huh.

Well, thanks, I suppose, for discrediting yourself when it comes to the mis and disinformation discussion

 

[Decypher]

With billions fed to Hamas, you would have thought they could spend it on something better than rockets and tunnels.

They did have hospitals and schools but Israel blew them all up.

 

[snakestretcher]

[QU
OTE="snakestretcher, post: 1082166532, member: 34337"]
With billions fed to Israel, you would have thought they could spend it better than on tanks, rockets, artillery and drones.

Israel would have been destroyed many times over.
The military action in Gaza was brought on by your Hamas buddies.
[/QUOTE]
Garbage post to add to the rest of your pile.

 

[snakestretcher]

Uh-huh.

Well, thanks, I suppose, for discrediting yourself when it comes to the mis and disinformation discussion

In which way do you think I "discredited" myself? Details please; this is after all a debate. I suspect you simply don't like being challenged by facts, or confronted with reality instead of the propaganda you've been fed by Israel. Should we discuss Israel's debunked propaganda lies, or would that destroy your position? Let's start with this:

Palestinian Red Crescent says Israel lying about Gaza medics' killings

An Israeli military report said "professional failures" led to the killing of the 15 rescue workers.

www.bbc.co.uk

Israel's lies are routine. This time it was caught out

The scandal of Israel’s murder of 15 Palestinian paramedics—and its failed attempt to cover up it up—has spread anger across the world

socialistworker.co.uk

Israeli army only finds ‘professional failures’ in Gaza aid worker killings

The Palestine Red Crescent Society denounced the Israeli report as 'full of lies'.

www.aljazeera.com

I have plenty more to share. Shall we play?

Edit. Still waiting.

 

[cpwill]

In which way do you think I "discredited" myself?

You refuse to acknowledge some of the most discredited, obvious, but damming mis/disinformation attempts in defense of HAMAS, instead retreating to a standard of "No one really knows"

But, of course, it is only when you wish to avoid dealing with something bad "your team" did in this realm that you insist on such a standard. Whenever you wish to make an accusation:

Details please; this is after all a debate. I suspect you simply don't like being challenged by facts, or confronted with reality instead of the propaganda you've been fed by Israel. Should we discuss Israel's debunked propaganda lies, or would that destroy your position? Let's start with this:

Palestinian Red Crescent says Israel lying about Gaza medics' killings

An Israeli military report said "professional failures" led to the killing of the 15 rescue workers.

www.bbc.co.uk

Israel's lies are routine. This time it was caught out

The scandal of Israel’s murder of 15 Palestinian paramedics—and its failed attempt to cover up it up—has spread anger across the world

socialistworker.co.uk

Israeli army only finds ‘professional failures’ in Gaza aid worker killings

The Palestine Red Crescent Society denounced the Israeli report as 'full of lies'.

www.aljazeera.com

I have plenty more to share. Shall we play?

Edit. Still waiting.

All of a sudden you think we can know things.

You're a partisan.

 

[cpwill]

They did have hospitals and schools but Israel blew them all up.

That's indeed what happens when you militarize them.

 

[Decypher]

That's indeed what happens when you militarize them.

Or you want to terrorise a civilian population.

 

[cpwill]

Or you want to terrorise a civilian population.

Eh. If you want to terrorize a civilian population, you don't call ahead to get them out of said areas and buildings before you engage them.

However, regardless of what motivations we choose to ascribe, the reality remains that it is HAMAS' decision to militarize those positions that necessitates their degradation. You can think that the IDF is mean and secretly likes doing so if you like, but, it is HAMAS that nonetheless requires them to.

 

[Decypher]

Eh. If you want to terrorize a civilian population, you don't call ahead to get them out of said areas and buildings before you engage them.

Do they?

Al-Fakhoora school airstrikes - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

However, regardless of what motivations we choose to ascribe, the reality remains that it is HAMAS' decision to militarize those positions that necessitates their degradation. You can think that the IDF is mean and secretly likes doing so if you like, but, it is HAMAS that nonetheless requires them to.

We really only Israel’s word for it that Hamas has militarised schools and hospitals. Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the UN dispute these claims.

Use of human shields by Hamas - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[cpwill]

Do they?

Al-Fakhoora school airstrikes - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

They do, though I wouldn't recommend Wikipedia as a source on this conflict, unfortunately.

We really only Israel’s word for it that Hamas has militarised schools and hospitals.

Not really. It's long been an approach of theirs and there is a wide body of multi source multi sensor evidence confirming such.

Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the UN dispute these claims.

Use of human shields by Hamas - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Even in this source it seemingly doesn't dispute the actions - merely the description.

Israel: "HAMAS militarizes civilian positions like schools and hospitals, meaning they are using them as human shields"
Amnesty International: "HAMAS militarized civilian positions like schools and hospitals, yes, but, that's not the same as 'using them as human shields.'"

 

[Decypher]

They do, though I wouldn't recommend Wikipedia as a source on this conflict, unfortunately.

They very much did not warn the civilians ahead of time in the example I posted.

Not really. It's long been an approach of theirs and there is a wide body of multi source multi sensor evidence confirming such.


Even in this source it seemingly doesn't dispute the actions - merely the description.

Israel: "HAMAS militarizes civilian positions like schools and hospitals, meaning they are using them as human shields"
Amnesty International: "HAMAS militarized civilian positions like schools and hospitals, yes, but, that's not the same as 'using them as human shields.'"

That is a dishonest misrepresentation.

 

[Dans La Lune]

It appears to be so, and it's also good for all who have been affected by the war Hamas started, but not to hear our resident anti-Trumpers whine about it.

Hostilities always cease after Israel throws a punch, and only begin with Israel gets a bloody nose.

 

[cpwill]

They very much did not warn the civilians ahead of time in the example I posted.

if you would like to see examples, it's an easy enough google search. Are you claiming Israel does not do this?

That is a dishonest misrepresentation.

It is not.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Even in this source it seemingly doesn't dispute the actions - merely the description.

Israel: "HAMAS militarizes civilian positions like schools and hospitals, meaning they are using them as human shields"
Amnesty International: "HAMAS militarized civilian positions like schools and hospitals, yes, but, that's not the same as 'using them as human shields.'"

Who the **** are you trying to appeal to with the Human Shields argument? Israel puts military targets in the heart of Tel Aviv, and literally uses Palestinians as human shields. Not in a nebulous debatable sense, but in the sense that someone picks up a physical shield to deflect attacks.

 

[Decypher]

if you would like to see examples, it's an easy enough google search. Are you claiming Israel does not do this?




It is not.

I’m saying they did not on the occasion which I referenced. Instead they bombed a school, killing children.

It’s remarkable how every pro-Isreal commenter in this thread is incapable of debating honestly. If Israel’s position is so morally good, it makes little sense that their supporters need to misrepresent the facts so consistently. Peace.

 

[Fledermaus]

Who the **** are you trying to appeal to with the Human Shields argument? Israel puts military targets in the heart of Tel Aviv, and literally uses Palestinians as human shields. Not in a nebulous debatable sense, but in the sense that someone picks up a physical shield to deflect attacks.

Hamas et al aren't targeting the military targets in the heart of Tel Aviv.

They target, by their own admission, the civilian centers.