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Hamas Leaders Cite October 7 Massacre as Impetus for International Support for Palestinian Nation

Cassandra said:
Tell me: in what war has the victor EVER determined to kill every member of the enemy.
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The war on terror. There are only three core members of al-Qa'ida left. Their ranks have been thinned pretty drastically. And the CIA is still looking to catch up with those three in a dark ally somewhere.

Leader
Saif al-Adel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saif_al-Adel
https://rewardsforjustice.net/rewards/sayf-al-adl/

Explosives and Chemical Weapons Specialist
Ali Sayyid Muhamed Mustafa al-Bakri
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Sayyid_Muhamed_Mustafa_al-Bakri
https://rewardsforjustice.net/rewards/ali-sayyid-muhamed-mustafa-al-bakri/

Senior Operative
Abu Humam al-Shami
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Humam_al-Shami
https://rewardsforjustice.net/rewards/faruq-al-suri/


Cassandra said:
I don't know what you rely on for information, but I think you are seriously misled.
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I'm not.

I acknowledge that the accusations might be true. I just have doubts.
 
Jezcoe said:
Leave or be bombed.

Quite a choice.
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Leave or risk being caught in the crossfire. Every civilian in a war zone is faced with that choice. The Gazan government chose the war zone on behalf of the Gazan people. The Gazan people absolutely should be given the option to leave if they wish, even if their own government forbids it.
 
Jezcoe said:
It is ethnic cleansing.
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No, no. It is a genocide. It just involves ethnic cleansing. Which, to be clear, most genocides do. From the Armenian Genocide, the Shoah, the Rohingya genocide in Myanmar, and on and on.
 
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lwf said:
Leave or risk being caught in the crossfire. Every civilian in a war zone is faced with that choice. The Gazan government chose the war zone on behalf of the Gazan people. The Gazan people absolutely should be given the option to leave if they wish, even if their own government forbids it.
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I love how Israel is a passive force in all of this.
 
Jezcoe said:
I love how Israel is a passive force in all of this.
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Or if they are described as active, how there was magically a Hamas terrorist standing behind every gunned-down child in Gaza.
 
Felis Leo said:
Or if they are described as active, how there was magically a Hamas terrorist standing behind every gunned-down child in Gaza.
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No one wants innocent children to be killed in warfare. But it is unavoidable when one of the belligerents uses them as human shields. Not every strike is ever going to be accurate. When you have civilians on every side and you miss your target, what do you think happens?

If you discover a way to kill only terrorists and not the civilians they use as human shields in urban warfare, you should patent it immediately. You would make a fortune.
 
lwf said:
No one wants innocent children to be killed in warfare. But it is unavoidable when one of the belligerents uses them as human shields. Not every strike is ever going to be accurate. When you have civilians on every side and you miss your target, what do you think happens?

If you discover a way to kill only terrorists and not the civilians they use as human shields in urban warfare, you should patent it immediately. You would make a fortune.
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That would be a great apologetic if we were debating Cast Lead. But there is no evidence that the Israeli government is seeking to minimize innocent casualties. And most Israelis do not even believe there are any innocent civilians in Gaza.
 
Felis Leo said:
No, no. It is a genocide. It just involves ethnic cleansing. Which, to be clear, most genocides do. From the Armenian Genocide, the Shoah, the Rohingya genocide in Myanmar, and on and on.
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This hate speech is appalling. Israel is not in any way committing genocide.
 
bomberfox said:
The choices are clear. The only choice for continued existence is two state.
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... which the Palestinians have turned down every time it was offered (starting in 1937 with the Peel Commission). Google the "Clinton Parameters" to see what they find unacceptable. You'll be disappointed that they didn't take that offer.
 
Toggle Almendro said:
This hate speech is appalling. Israel is not in any way committing genocide.
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Ah, so Israel is conducting a war so clean that no journalists or humanitarian organizations are allowed into Gaza to document the sheer humanity of the operation. Perhaps the IDF is keeping things under wraps because it might cause the Israeli public to believe Netanyahu is too going soft on Hamas.
 
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Jezcoe said:
It is presented as a passive force.

Like they have no choices in this matter.
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Israel had two choices in this matter. Go to war with Hamas, or not go to war with Hamas. Israel chose the only sane option. They chose the option that any nation, including yours, would have (and has) chosen. You don't negotiate with terrorists. You go to war with them. I don't blame you for not liking the outcome of this choice. But there is no point in pretending that there was some mythical third option that would have solved all of the problems here without any innocent casualties. This problem has a single solution, and that solution was always going to result in a humanitarian catastrophe and a sea of dead innocents in Gaza. There is no technology, nor is there a more morally upstanding civilization, that could have prevented those consequences. You can criticize this reality, but it doesn't change the facts.

Gaza was always going to end up like this. Quibbling over magnitude is pointless. I'm sure with the benefit of hindsight we will find that there were plenty of things Israel could have differently in this process, and that there were mistakes made by the IDF in addition to the mistakes made by Hamas. I'm sure that some of the loss of innocent life could have been prevented had Israel known more or done something differently. Such is war. That's why you don't declare war on your neighbor by killing his children. Because you can reliably count on unintended consequences for everyone involved.
 
Felis Leo said:
Ah, so Israel is conducting a war so clean that no journalists or humanitarian organizations are allowed into Gaza to document the sheer humanity. It might cause the public to believe Netanyahu is going soft on Hamas.
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If you want a clean war, then you'd best stick to Hollywood because that is the only place it exists.
 
Felis Leo said:
That would be a great apologetic if we were debating Cast Lead. But there is no evidence that the Israeli government is seeking to minimize innocent casualties. And most Israelis do not even believe there are any innocent civilians in Gaza.
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The evidence that Israel is seeking to minimize civilian casualties in Gaza is the fact that there aren't more civilian casualties in Gaza. With the amount of ordnance that has been dropped on Gaza, Israel is either seeking to minimize civilian casualties, or else Israelis have the worst aim in history.
 
stevecanuck said:
... which the Palestinians have turned down every time it was offered (starting in 1937 with the Peel Commission). Google the "Clinton Parameters" to see what they find unacceptable. You'll be disappointed that they didn't take that offer.
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I bet they are too right now.
 
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