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Guns must be protected at all costs- why?

There are countries in Europe where there are lots of civilian-owned guns. Yes, only a fraction of what is in the US, but not a tiny fraction.

Some of those European nations that have lots of guns, do have restrictive gun laws. But there is a band of countries in Europe stretching roughly from Finland to Switzerland where the gun laws are not terribly restrictive.
Finland, a country with high gun ownership rates due to the threat posed by Russia, has only 1/4 the guns in circulation per-capita that we do. Switzerland has less than 1/4 the guns in circulation per-capita that we do. Of wealthy, developed nations, Canada is the closest to us and they are 1/3. Mind you, intentional homicide rates track gun ownership rates very well when you compare high income nations, and I am saying all of this as someone that likely owns more firearms than most people on this forum do.


If guns made us safer, we would be the safest country on earth, yet we actually have a homicide rate far higher than any other high income country. The right to bear arms has societal benefits and costs just like any other right, and in it's case, its made us less safe as a society than we otherwise would be.
 
A bunch of small-town cops are not “federal troops”. If federal troops really wanna get tyrannical on you, they are NOT going to come at you with AR15s. They are going to come at you like Waco, not Uvalde.

The Branch Dravidians there had hundreds of AR15s. Warehouses full of them. Didn’t help them even a little bit.

And I’m not sure what this business about me being on the record is all about. Must be your imagination.
And a lesson was learned there to and big govt. did the learning just like Ruby Ridge and Katrina.
 
Federal government is what happens in Waco, not Uvalde. No one can argue that the Davidians did not have enough AR 15‘s. In a true battlefield situation, AR15s are nothing but toy guns.
If AR-15s are just toy guns then whats the problem with them?
Like I said, AR15s are way too much for personal defense, and way too little in a true battlefield situation. They’re just right for civilian massacres.
HMM arm chair warrior. But again if there toys how do the cause civilian massacres?
 
I think they are OK with that. The AR15s create a whole added layer of complexity that makes their job far more tricky, and dangerous.

From 2010 back to 1994? Really.
 
Oh look a person who knows nothing about self defense or the use of firearms trying to act like he does.

How sad.

Tell us why exactly you are handicapped using an AR for self defense
he's whut yo' call an expert at
them thar insurreckshuns. Him and snubby wouldn't last five [5] minutes.
 
If AR-15s are just toy guns then whats the problem with them?

HMM arm chair warrior. But again if there toys how do the cause civilian massacres?

They are toys for an actual modern army. Kids can still hurt other kids with their toys.
 
Finland, a country with high gun ownership rates due to the threat posed by Russia, has only 1/4 the guns in circulation per-capita that we do. Switzerland has less than 1/4 the guns in circulation per-capita that we do. Of wealthy, developed nations, Canada is the closest to us and they are 1/3. Mind you, intentional homicide rates track gun ownership rates very well when you compare high income nations, and I am saying all of this as someone that likely owns more firearms than most people on this forum do.


If guns made us safer, we would be the safest country on earth, yet we actually have a homicide rate far higher than any other high income country. The right to bear arms has societal benefits and costs just like any other right, and in it's case, its made us less safe as a society than we otherwise would be.
Are you comparing populations or firearms? Don't bother comparing us to China since we aren't an oppressed people.
 
And a lesson was learned there to and big govt. did the learning just like Ruby Ridge and Katrina.

They learned a lesson as far as what to avoid if they don’t want to hurt their citizens. But what if their goal IS to hurt their citizens?

Isn’t that the scenario for which many AR 15s are being bought for after all?
 
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You should probably tell the Afghanis that. They would be interested to hear your theories.

The only reason the Taliban were not completely exterminated is because we had finished doing what we went there to do, and also because we were worried about our reputation internationally. It wasn’t worth it.

But you really think it was their AR 15s that kept us from doing that if we really wanted to? LOL.
 
Are you comparing populations or firearms? Don't bother comparing us to China since we aren't an oppressed people.
I am comparing our per-capita firearm ownership rates and our homicide rates to other high income nations. China is not a high income nation, so it would not be part of that comparison.

Homicide rate in Canada: 1.97 per 100,000
Homicide rate in the United States: 7.2 per 100,000
Homicide rate in the UK: 1.1 per 100,000
Homicide rate in France 1.2 per 100,000
Homicide rate in Australia: .87 per 100,000

These countries all have poverty, drug problems, urban areas, violent video games and so on, what they don't have is more guns in circulation than citizens. If you have a country awash in guns, you are going to have a much higher homicide rate than you otherwise would, because guns are very efficient tools for killing.

What is crazy about this, is that people recognize this with everything else. How many deer would be taken every year if hunters were limited to bows? A hell of lot less than is taken with long rifles. How many people would be killed in war if we were still chucking rocks and spears? A hell of a lot less. Yet there are some people that just can't wrap their heads around the fact that more guns in circulation means more murders, all things being equal. Its certainly not the only factor, but its a major factor and I am saying this as a gun owner. I am not anti-gun, I just don't like bad arguments and the more guns make us safer argument is the ultimate bad argument.
 
They are toys for an actual modern army. Kids can still hurt other kids with their toys.
That's your argument? And a piss poor argument. Are you saying only kids can hurt kids with them; I'm confused. "actual modern army" Did you know that the M-16 is an AR-15 incognito with a giggle switch and a slightly hotter round 5.56mm (to cycle the bolt proper) but the .223 will still drop you cold.
 
They learned a lesson as far as what to avoid if they don’t want to hurt their citizens. But what if their goal IS to hurt their citizens?
You'll find most if not just about all won't hurt civilians goal or not. Sorry to disappoint.
Isn’t that the scenario for which many AR 15s are being bought for after all?
Oh there will be the few there always is that want to try out their "toys." Mostly they are bought because of the rioters and looters and people just like shooting. But I go with AKs.
 
I am comparing our per-capita firearm ownership rates and our homicide rates to other high income nations. China is not a high income nation, so it would not be part of that comparison.

Homicide rate in Canada: 1.97 per 100,000
Homicide rate in the United States: 7.2 per 100,000
Homicide rate in the UK: 1.1 per 100,000
Homicide rate in France 1.2 per 100,000
Homicide rate in Australia: .87 per 100,000

These countries all have poverty, drug problems, urban areas, violent video games and so on, what they don't have is more guns in circulation than citizens. If you have a country awash in guns, you are going to have a much higher homicide rate than you otherwise would, because guns are very efficient tools for killing.

What is crazy about this, is that people recognize this with everything else. How many deer would be taken every year if hunters were limited to bows? A hell of lot less than is taken with long rifles. How many people would be killed in war if we were still chucking rocks and spears? A hell of a lot less. Yet there are some people that just can't wrap their heads around the fact that more guns in circulation means more murders, all things being equal. Its certainly not the only factor, but its a major factor and I am saying this as a gun owner. I am not anti-gun, I just don't like bad arguments and the more guns make us safer argument is the ultimate bad argument.
I still think more guns less crime. You want to brand every gun owner as a killer and make them 100% responsible for every murder and suicide. In the countries above I could give a flying **** about their stats on homicide, since everyone seems to have a different method of counting and what constitutes a homicide. A homicide here by firearm could be an accidental death and nothing to do with murder. a lot People think homicide and murder are the same. I say this because you say "because guns are very efficient tools for killing" Homicides aren't always murder.
 
With respect:

That's the bottom line for the GOP and other gun proliferation proponents: Guns must be protected at all costs.

WHY? Why must guns be protected at all costs?
For the slow people...."The Constitution".
 
The only reason the Taliban were not completely exterminated is because we had finished doing what we went there to do, and also because we were worried about our reputation internationally. It wasn’t worth it.

But you really think it was their AR 15s that kept us from doing that if we really wanted to? LOL.
So how much time do you have in Afghanistan to make this determination. Let’s compare.

I also can’t help but notice that you completely are avoiding my post after I pointed out the lies that you expert told. Even after you asked repeatedly what those lies were. Hmmm wonder why that is.
 
I still think more guns less crime. You want to brand every gun owner as a killer and make them 100% responsible for every murder and suicide. In the countries above I could give a flying **** about their stats on homicide, since everyone seems to have a different method of counting and what constitutes a homicide. A homicide here by firearm could be an accidental death and nothing to do with murder. a lot People think homicide and murder are the same. I say this because you say "because guns are very efficient tools for killing" Homicides aren't always murder.
No one is branding every gun owner a killer. The vast majority of gun owners are peaceful and law abiding. However more guns in circulation makes it easier for evil men to get them. As to counting homicides, those are stats on intentional homicides.
 
Finland, a country with high gun ownership rates due to the threat posed by Russia, has only 1/4 the guns in circulation per-capita that we do. Switzerland has less than 1/4 the guns in circulation per-capita that we do. Of wealthy, developed nations, Canada is the closest to us and they are 1/3.
So in other words, a fraction, but not a tiny fraction.


Mind you, intentional homicide rates track gun ownership rates very well when you compare high income nations,
I doubt that that is the case.



If guns made us safer, we would be the safest country on earth, yet we actually have a homicide rate far higher than any other high income country.
Why are you comparing us to high income countries? The parts of the US where there are lots of homicides are low income areas, and the US does not have the social safety net that other wealthy nations have.


The right to bear arms has societal benefits and costs just like any other right, and in it's case, its made us less safe as a society than we otherwise would be.
Any gun regulation that would truly make us safer would pass muster with strict scrutiny and would not be blocked by the Second Amendment.

What the Second Amendment blocks are laws that do nothing at all to make us safer. Like laws against pistol grips and flash suppressors.
 
In regulating hazardous equipment, you have to balance considerations of utility with public safety.
Having a pistol grip and a flash suppressor on a rifle does not make it hazardous in any way whatsoever.


What can an AR15 do for self defense that you can't do with a small revolver?
a) Fire more accurately.

b) Reach out to a greater distance.

c) Have greater stopping power.

d) Penetrate Kevlar, and do so without any loss in stopping power.

e) Not run out of ammo in the middle of a gunfight.


The only thing these AR15s are doing is making life difficult for local law enforcement.
Nonsense. AR-15s don't cause any more problems for police than many other rifles.

Further, AR-15s do serve other purposes. Varmint hunting for example.


I’ve been very curious to see what they were lying about.
The CNN guy is lying when he says that the reason why police were provided AR-15s was because they were encountering them in the streets. They were provided AR-15s because they were encountering Kevlar in the streets.

The CNN guy is lying when he says that the AR-15 has a problem with penetrating walls and killing innocent bystanders. All guns do that, including the AR-15. But of all the possible guns, the AR-15 is about the least-bad when it comes to penetrating walls and killing innocent bystanders.

The CNN guy is lying when he implies that the AR-15 round is special for it's ability to penetrate Kevlar. All centerfire rifles penetrate Kevlar. The AR-15 is nothing special in this regard.

The CNN guy is lying when he implies that the AR-15 is special for it's long range. Most centerfire rifles have such range.

The CNN guy is lying when he says that large magazines are only for battlefields. They are also for varmint hunting and for self defense.

The CNN guy is lying when he says that the police are overmatched. In reality the police carry AR-15s too.

The CNN guy is lying when he says that gun ranges that can handle an AR-15 are rare. Any gun range that can handle an ordinary rifle, can handle an AR-15 (which is just an ordinary rifle).

The CNN guy is lying when he implies that ammo for the AR-15 is particularly expensive.

The CNN guy is lying when he says that people who own NFA weapons are subject to annual review.

Off hand I am not sure whether the CNN guy is lying when he says that 18-year-olds cannot buy NFA weapons. But I would not be surprised to learn that that is a lie as well.

That was just a quick review of the article. I am not saying that this is a comprehensive list of every lie in the article. But those are the lies that stood out to me when I skimmed it just now.


But today, if people really want to "warn their rulers from time to time", the kind of weapons they would need would be gunships and nuclear ordnances, not just muskets. That is why the 2A, the way it's written nowadays, is hopelessly obsolete for the purposes of its original intent.
But surely you knew that THAT was its primary purpose, not to shoo away burglars. Didn't you?
The primary intent was actually to prevent tyranny from arising in the first place. They thought that a standing army was necessary before tyranny could arise, and they thought that if the government always relied on a militia for enforcement, then it would never have cause to raise a standing army.

But even though self defense is not the primary purpose, so what? It is still a purpose.


The AR15s create a whole added layer of complexity that makes their job far more tricky, and dangerous.
Nonsense. AR-15s don't cause any more problems for police than many other rifles.


No assault weapon that is or was legally-owned by American civilians has ever been used to commit a crime.
 
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