Guns are the problem...

[rahl]

Can you at least concede my general point that guns make killing easier that swords, crossbows, whatever came first? That is the reason guns were invented and the reason behind gun control, which we already have, in many areas and is similar to controls placed on other potentially harmful items like medication or alcohol. The debate is not over whether or not we infringe the right to bear arms. We do. The debate is over how much.

Firearms are irrelevant to homicide rates as you’ve been shown. Firearms are regulated. They are more regulated than even automobiles are.

 

[Nickyjo]

Firearms are irrelevant to homicide rates as you’ve been shown. Firearms are regulated. They are more regulated than even automobiles are.

And I and others would like to see more regulation. That’s the battle.

 

[RF667799]

And I and others would like to see more regulation. That’s the battle.

We would like to see such proposals that are effective and respectful of Constitutional Rights and civil liberties.

But I have a proposal that assumes the efficacy of a common gun control desire...and you guys won't support it. Why? Would it be too effective?

 

[Toggle Almendro]

It amazes me that people can see no relation with guns and the more deadly damage they can cause when used in a battle, to commit a crime or to defend oneself. Again, I suggest that they not bring knives to a gun fight.

It’s a fact that gun ownership rates have little correlation with homicide rates.

 

[Teatime]

The Second Amendment is the problem.

The 2A is outdated, obsolete. It was created to ensure that the USA could quickly raise an army to defend the nation because there was to be no standing army since the colonialists rightly feared the British Army being used to burst into homes and arrest without warrant.

Because of the 2A, we cannot properly regulate guns.

Responsible people should be allowed to have guns. Dangerous nutcases should not. It was a mistake to make gun ownership a universal right. Guns are now the leading cause of death for American children.

Then repeal the 2A. There's a process for that.

You have a valid argument. When the 2A was written, the US didn't have a standing Army (or barely had one, depending on which date and location you look at), and both the Federal and the States relied on the militia. Now we have the National Guard. Also, political identities back then were not left vs right, Republican vs Democrat. Identities were State-centric. Today, people don't really identify politically that way anymore. Today people identify by issues. No one cares if your from Virginia, they care about your view on abortion, pronouns and guns.

It's valid to argue "A well regulated militia, being no longer necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms is hereby repealed".

 

[Teatime]

We would like to see such proposals that are effective and respectful of Constitutional Rights and civil liberties.

But I have a proposal that assumes the efficacy of a common gun control desire...and you guys won't support it. Why? Would it be too effective?

The root problem with Democracy is if elected officials actually solved the problems they were elected to solve, they would be out of a job, so they never actually solve any problem. A politician can't be seen fighting a problem that no longer exists. Politicians simply buy votes until the treasury dries up and everything falls apart and a dictatorship is born.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

You have a valid argument. When the 2A was written, the US didn't have a standing Army (or barely had one, depending on which date and location you look at), and both the Federal and the States relied on the militia.

That was a conscious choice on the part of the Founding Fathers. They could have retained a large standing army had they wanted to do so.

Now we have the National Guard.

Irrelevant.

 

[Teatime]

Irrelevant.

Ignorant.

The National Guard is the State militia and operates under Title 32. The so-called "unorganized militia" has never not ever been called to muster.

 

[Teatime]

It just makes homicide easier.

That's the whole point of owning a gun, yes.

 

[RF667799]

That's the whole point of owning a gun, yes.

At least that's what the Gun Control Industry would have us believe.

They're no more capable of determining that than are you.

 

[Teatime]

At least that's what the Gun Control Industry would have us believe.

They're no more capable of determining that than are you.

Fortunately my DD214 says I'm adequately qualified to determine what a firearm is for.

 

[RF667799]

Fortunately my DD214 says I'm adequately qualified to determine what a firearm is for.

No it doesn't. That's bullshit.

 

[Teatime]

No it doesn't. That's bullshit.

If that's what you think then keep scrolling, no love lost.

 

[RF667799]

If that's what you think then keep scrolling, no love lost.

Your DD214 doesn't give you the special powers you claim. Nor does having one mean you're right. If that was the case, I say you're wrong and my DD214 says I'm right.

 

[Teatime]

Your DD214 doesn't give you the special powers you claim. Nor does having one mean you're right. If that was the case, I say you're wrong and my DD214 says I'm right.

If that's what you think then keep scrolling, no love lost.

 

[RF667799]

If that's what you think then keep scrolling, no love lost.

You're at a debate site to not support your claims, and get angry when someone doesn't accept you as the authority that you are correct.

 

[Teatime]

You're at a debate site to not support your claims, and get angry when someone doesn't accept you as the authority that you are correct.

I'm sorry you think so. There's an Ignore feature at your disposal.

 

[RF667799]

I'm sorry you think so. There's an Ignore feature at your disposal.

I'm just going by what you just demonstrated as a great way to fall face first in your argument.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Ignorant.

Unlikely. But feel free to try to establish that the existence of the National Guard has some kind of relevance to the conversation.

The National Guard is the State militia and operates under Title 32. The so-called "unorganized militia" has never not ever been called to muster.

Mount Everest is 884,890 centimeters high.

That's the whole point of owning a gun, yes.

That is incorrect. Some people own guns to prevent homicides. Other people own guns for sports. And some people just like to go deer hunting.

The guns of Olympic biathletes, for example, are not for making homicides easier.

 

[rahl]

And I and others would like to see more regulation.

Well, the constitution doesn’t permit any.

That’s the battle.

You have lost already. The Supreme Court has already told you then limits of the regulations the constitution will permit. And guess what? Even more regulations are going to be removed as unconstitutional.

 

[Peacenik]

Then repeal the 2A. There's a process for that.

You have a valid argument. When the 2A was written, the US didn't have a standing Army (or barely had one, depending on which date and location you look at), and both the Federal and the States relied on the militia. Now we have the National Guard. Also, political identities back then were not left vs right, Republican vs Democrat. Identities were State-centric. Today, people don't really identify politically that way anymore. Today people identify by issues. No one cares if your from Virginia, they care about your view on abortion, pronouns and guns.

It's valid to argue "A well regulated militia, being no longer necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms is hereby repealed".

Agreed.

Many things about the original Constitution, written in 1789 for a 13 State nation, are now inappropriate and do not work well for a 50 State nation in 2025.

One of those other things besides the 2A is the electoral college.

Rich powerful and greedy oligarchs control our government through a system of dark money well funded public opinion shaping. Their strategy is to keep Americans bitterly opposed on culture wars so that we won't notice as they direct the government to be their little puppet in their schemes to fleece the American public and extract as much wealth as possible for the oligarchy. Give us someone to hate and we won't notice as they pick our pockets. Hell, give us someone to look down on and we'll turn our pockets inside out for them.

It's a technique Trump has mastered.

The fix for this predicament is not easy, but there is a way.

We have to change the political climate.

We can do that with cookie cutter local action which can be repeated all across the nation by people who can see what's going on and are fed up with it. Left-right coalitions need to be formed. Local governments need to be persuaded to pass simple non-bonding resolutions in support of the American Anti Corruption Act. a badly needed proposed legislation which will get the big money out of government. Links in my signature below...

 

[Teatime]

I'm just going by what you just demonstrated as a great way to fall face first in your argument.

You're free to "go by" whatever you want, I wasn't talking to you in the first place

 

[RF667799]

You're free to "go by" whatever you want, I wasn't talking to you in the first place

Open forum. I can comment on whatever posts I wish. I'm quite likely to do that too, when I see discredited Gun Control Industry crap.

 

[Teatime]

Open forum. I can comment on whatever posts I wish.

You sure can, just know that replying to someone does not place a requirement on them to begin debating you.

 

[RF667799]

You sure can, just know that replying to someone does not place a requirement on them to begin debating you.

So much the better. I refute your post and you demonstrate that you have no credible response.