Gun sales have exploded. Funny, that didn’t make us all safer.

[Rucker61]

No, I think NOT making people like Payton Grendon "lawful gun owners" is a step the vast majority of American would agree with...

If only we could read the future, or if NY had done its job.

 

[TurtleDude]

If only we could read the future, or if NY had done its job.

One side does't support raping the rights of millions because it might at best, stop a few killers. the other side wants to rape the rights of millions and pretend that stopping a few killers is what motivates them

 

[Davin]

I think people SHOULD have training to carry a gun but you cannot prohibit a constitutional right by such a requirement. BTW citizens carrying firearms are less likely to shoot the wrong person than police are

I disagree in an urban environment about not having required training to carry in public. Again I don't want to disallow people to carry in their domicile but public is a different thing, especially in an urban case.

I don't think I can agree with your claim on less likely to shoot the wrong person in an urban environment without training. That hasn't been tested enough IMO in the modern age of having MILLIONS in an area.

 

[iguanaman]

well you are wrong because there have been 100 million or more new guns in the USA in the last 30 years and there has not been a corresponding increase of crime and violence

Yes I should have said the more homes with guns the more gun crime and violence. Even the 20 + aresenal super gun owners like you only count as 1 household and that number has dropped since the 1980's. What has skyrocketed lately is the number of high profile mass shootings with AR type weapons. They are weapons used in ALL the mass shootings where over 10 people were killed in the event. It is almost like these nutcases are trying to prove you wrong about the AR.

 

[Davin]

One side does't support raping the rights of millions because it might at best, stop a few killers. the other side wants to rape the rights of millions and pretend that stopping a few killers is what motivates them

Oh come on, is using the term RAPING really the case here of not having the right to carry in an urban environment? I've had two friends that have been ACTUALLY raped and I can tell you it's not the same thing as not being able to carry a firearm. Let's be honest here with terms.

 

[TurtleDude]

I disagree in an urban environment about not having required training to carry in public. Again I don't want to disallow people to carry in their domicile but public is a different thing, especially in an urban case.

I don't think I can agree with your claim on less likely to shoot the wrong person in an urban environment without training. That hasn't been tested enough IMO in the modern age of having MILLIONS in an area.

well you can disagree all you want but if you actually research shootings involving legal gun toters vs the police you will find I am right. I am unaware of any private civilian shooting someone 42 times for reaching for a wallet, for example

 

[TurtleDude]

Yes I should have said the more homes with guns the more gun crime and violence. Even the 20 + aresenal super gun owners like you only count as 1 household and that number has dropped since the 1980's. What has skyrocketed lately is the number of high profile mass shootings with AR type weapons. They are weapons used in ALL the mass shootings where over 10 people were killed in the event. It is almost like these nutcases are trying to prove you wrong about the AR.

I think anti gunners who constantly tell nut cases that they should use AR 15s are far more to blame than honest gun owners. You are also not being truthful. The VT shooter killed more than ten, the Luby's texas shooter killed more than ten. plenty of mass killings didn't use AR 15s

 

[Chase Morgan]

We just need to make sure every 70 and 80 year old is packing.

No doubt, Caught

Clearly we need more guns to get Murr-ca's gun violence epidemic under control....................................................................................

 

[Davin]

well you can disagree all you want but if you actually research shootings involving legal gun toters vs the police you will find I am right. I am unaware of any private civilian shooting someone 42 times for reaching for a wallet, for example

No but we have never tested what will happen in an urban enviornment if say a gang shooting happens and a firearm carrier opens fire without having training.

 

[Chase Morgan]

Interesting article, not everyone carrys a gun, one time I seen a black guy open carry a gun in the suburbs ( I never seen that before in my 57 years of life. ) at first I was concerned, thinking what should I do? Do I call the cops? Then I remembered open carry laws, so I didn't care.


If I ever see this it would trouble me also and seem real strange,, but open carry is the law in some places



View attachment 67391554

LOL ... Some deranged madman with a mass-killing machine could pop out of his car in the parking lot (just like the Buffalo animal did) and blow her and her kid away as they walked out of the store before she could even think about grabbing that rifle strapped to her back and try to defend herself...

 

[CaughtInThe]

No doubt, Caught

Clearly we need more guns to get Murr-ca's gun violence epidemic under control....................................................................................

9 to 90, old sick or blind. should be packing.

 

[TurtleDude]

No but we have never tested what will happen in an urban enviornment if say a gang shooting happens and a firearm carrier opens fire without having training.

You don't this hasn't happened? I teach people how to shoot. I shoot constantly. I think everyone ought to train as much as I do, but ammo costs make that tough. Of course I compete constantly and am a GM level speed shooter. And I look down at people who carry and don't practice. But I see lots of gun banners who want to use unrealistic training requirements to limit the rights of people who want to own guns

 

[TurtleDude]

LOL ... Some deranged madman with a mass-killing machine could pop out of his car in the parking lot (just like the Buffalo animal did) and blow her and her kid away as they walked out of the store before she could even think about grabbing that rifle strapped to her back and try to defend herself...

do you think you add gravitas to your invariably stupid trolling posts by calling firearms "mass-killing machines"? Do you think anyone who isn't hysterically hateful of gun ownership finds such terms to be persuasive?

 

[Rucker61]

I disagree in an urban environment about not having required training to carry in public. Again I don't want to disallow people to carry in their domicile but public is a different thing, especially in an urban case.

I don't think I can agree with your claim on less likely to shoot the wrong person in an urban environment without training. That hasn't been tested enough IMO in the modern age of having MILLIONS in an area.

Have we seen a problem with law abiding citizens shooting the wrong people?

 

[Davin]

You don't this hasn't happened? I teach people how to shoot. I shoot constantly. I think everyone ought to train as much as I do, but ammo costs make that tough. Of course I compete constantly and am a GM level speed shooter. And I look down at people who carry and don't practice. But I see lots of gun banners who want to use unrealistic training requirements to limit the rights of people who want to own guns

You just hit a key point here "You taught people how to shoot". I'm talking about allowing people to open or C&C without training as some 2nd amendment supporters want. Are you seriously saying in an urban environment where there are people C&C that there won't be innocent people killed buy someone trying to do the "right" thing?

Just tell me how you would feel if a wife, son/daughter or other family member was killed by someone who didn't have training and killed them in the commision of trying to stop someone coimmiting a crime? Would you write it off as "They were a necessary sacrifice"? I don't think you would.

 

[BlueTex]

If you haven't been following this case, then you really shouldn't be commenting

Afraid to tell us? What did the state of NY screw up?

 

[Davin]

Have we seen a problem with law abiding citizens shooting the wrong people?

We haven't tested non-training of firearm holders in a million person population urban environment. Even 2nd amendment supporting urban cities make open carry illegal and require C&C training.

 

[BlueTex]

If only we could read the future, or if NY had done its job.

Are juvenile records suddenly of interest on background checks for gun supporters? You supporting red flag laws now?

 

[Rucker61]

Yes I should have said the more homes with guns the more gun crime and violence.

How do the folks conducting the studies know how many households have guns?

Even the 20 + aresenal super gun owners like you only count as 1 household and that number has dropped since the 1980's. What has skyrocketed lately is the number of high profile mass shootings with AR type weapons.

The biggest three years of growth in ownership of AR-15s was 2008-2010 when Obama ran and was elected. There were zero mass shootings with AR-15s in those three years.

They are weapons used in ALL the mass shootings where over 10 people were killed in the event. It is almost like these nutcases are trying to prove you wrong about the AR.

We had AR-15s for 48 years before the first mass shooting by a civilian with an AR-15.

 

[Rucker61]

We haven't tested non-training of firearm holders in a million person population urban environment. Even 2nd amendment supporting urban cities make open carry illegal and require C&C training.

How many of the states that allow Constitutional Carry have cities?

 

[iguanaman]

I think anti gunners who constantly tell nut cases that they should use AR 15s are far more to blame than honest gun owners. You are also not being truthful. The VT shooter killed more than ten, the Luby's texas shooter killed more than ten. plenty of mass killings didn't use AR 15s

Luby's was over 30 years ago. That is how far back you need to go? You get my point. There is a decided preference for AK type rifles with psychotic killers. Some might say owning one makes you part of the group that includes atrocities like the Vegas massacre or Sandy Hook. Does that make them more or less desirable?

It is the focus of multiple attempts at prohibition, which in turn has prompted people to run out and buy more. Such “panic buying” drove sales of AR-15s to record levels during the presidency of Barack Obama and the 2016 presidential campaign. Gun merchants say some buyers are also driven by a fascination with a weapon used in notoriously heinous crimes.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/america-s-rifle-why-so-many-people-love-ar-15-n831171

 

[TurtleDude]

You just hit a key point here "You taught people how to shoot". I'm talking about allowing people to open or C&C without training as some 2nd amendment supporters want. Are you seriously saying in an urban environment where there are people C&C that there won't be innocent people killed buy someone trying to do the "right" thing?

Just tell me how you would feel if a wife, son/daughter or other family member was killed by someone who didn't have training and killed them in the commision of trying to stop someone coimmiting a crime? Would you write it off as "They were a necessary sacrifice"? I don't think you would.

as opposed to gun banners creating all sorts of barriers to people owning guns based on idiotic training requirements? One turd of a politician in ohio said that those who want to carry should have to undergo the same amount of training that a police recruit does-and that isn't the 20 hours of firearms training but rather than hundreds of hours at an academy

 

[Rucker61]

Are juvenile records suddenly of interest on background checks for gun supporters?

When you referred to people like the shooter, weren't you referring to those with juvenile records?

You supporting red flag laws now?

Nope, but the lack of my support doesn't prevent them from being used, do they?

 

[TurtleDude]

We haven't tested non-training of firearm holders in a million person population urban environment. Even 2nd amendment supporting urban cities make open carry illegal and require C&C training.

horse shit.

 

[Davin]

as opposed to gun banners creating all sorts of barriers to people owning guns based on idiotic training requirements? One turd of a politician in ohio said that those who want to carry should have to undergo the same amount of training that a police recruit does-and that isn't the 20 hours of firearms training but rather than hundreds of hours at an academy

Ok, I'm trying to have a rational conversation with you on this. I don't care what gun banners want. I'm trying to have a conversation on middle ground here. I don't think training is out of order to carry in public whether it is C&C or open. I also have agreed that regardless of training people should have the right to carry in their home. So what have I said that is SOOO unreasonable here?