Gun control is damn near the equivalent of car control

[JMB1911A1]

It's not about what looks scary to me, but measures which have proven to work to save lives:

1. Permit-to-Purchase (PTP) Laws​

• Description: Require individuals to obtain a license or permit from law enforcement before purchasing a firearm, often with background checks and sometimes fingerprinting.
• Evidence:
  • Connecticut (1995): Implementing a PTP law was associated with a 40% reduction in firearm homicide.
  • Missouri (2007 repeal): Repealing its PTP law was associated with a 25% increase in firearm homicide.
  • (Source: Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research)

---

2. Universal Background Checks​

• Description: Mandate background checks for all gun sales, including private and gun show sales.
• Evidence:
  • States with stricter background checks tend to have lower rates of gun homicide and suicide.
  • Universal background checks are most effective when combined with PTP laws.
  • (Source: JAMA, The Lancet, Journal of Urban Health)

---

3. Red Flag Laws (Extreme Risk Protection Orders)​

• Description: Allow family members or law enforcement to petition a court to temporarily remove firearms from individuals deemed a risk to themselves or others.
• Evidence:
  • In Connecticut and Indiana, red flag laws have been linked to reductions in firearm suicides.
  • May also help prevent mass shootings, although data here is more limited.
  • (Source: Psychiatric Services, Annals of Internal Medicine)

---

4. Child Access Prevention (CAP) Laws​

• Description: Penalize gun owners who fail to store firearms safely, particularly when children could access them.
• Evidence:
  • Associated with reductions in unintentional shootings and suicides among children.
  • More stringent CAP laws (e.g., requiring locked storage) are more effective.
  • (Source: Pediatrics, Journal of the American Medical Association)

---

5. Firearm Waiting Periods​

• Description: Require a delay between purchasing and receiving a firearm.
• Evidence:
  • Waiting periods are linked to decreases in gun suicides and homicides, likely by reducing impulsive acts.
  • One study estimated 51 fewer gun homicides per month nationwide if all states had waiting periods.
  • (Source: PNAS - Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences)

---

6. Restrictions on High-Risk Individuals​

• Description: Laws that prohibit firearm possession by individuals with certain histories (e.g., domestic violence, mental health adjudication).
• Evidence:
  • Domestic violence firearm prohibitions reduce intimate partner homicide rates.
  • Closing loopholes in these laws increases their effectiveness.
  • (Source: Annals of Internal Medicine, American Journal of Public Health)

---

7. High-Capacity Magazine Bans and Assault Weapon Restrictions​

• Evidence:
  • Evidence on overall crime reduction is mixed.
  • However, these bans may reduce casualties in mass shootings.
  • (Source: RAND Corporation, Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery)
• -ChatGPT

Using a larger font doesn’t make these lies any truer than when I demolished them earlier

 

[ataraxia]

Using a larger font doesn’t make these lies any truer than when I demolished them earlier

OK. It's clear actual reality and facts don't matter to you. So you keep living in your own alternative reality where you have "demolished" them.

What color cape do you wear? Do you have a mask too? Do things go "POW!" when you demolish them like that?

 

[ataraxia]

Why can't we make a permit to join a religion or to associate with people or to be secure in your papers?

Background checks are only as good as the background you're checking. I think before you go around mandating this or that for background checks you need to First make it illegal for agencies not to report arrests for violent activities to the nics database. Without that there are no background checks it's just an illusion.

A court should not be able to remove your rights unless you have been adjudicated.

So this is just about punishing more people or vengeance for crimes. Vengeance is not part of the penal system and it never should be.

If the court determines you were criminally negligent and it resulted in the death of your child or somebody else's or their injury then you prosecute on that.

But an extra large just to deal out extra punishment is unacceptable.

This is just interference for the sake of interference.

If you have already been convicted of domestic violence and you can't have a firearm so this is superfluous

There is no such thing as a high capacity magazine.

These would all be convincing arguments if you weren't arguing against real world observations that these things work to save lives.

 

[JMB1911A1]

OK. It's clear actual reality and facts don't matter to you. So you keep living in your own alternative reality where you have "demolished" them.

What color cape do you wear? Do you have a mask too? Do things go "POW!" when you demolish them like that?

Post 979 demolished your “arguments” and you could address anything I said.

But hey, keep pushing for laws based in the Jim Crow era and others that require demolishing the 4A and the 5A, it is a good look for the anti-civil right gun control crowd.

 

[ataraxia]

"Gun deaths"

Do you have a single study that proves guns cause people to be homicidal or suicidal?

Sure. Lots of 'em. How many do you want?

The relationship between gun ownership and firearm homicide rates in the United States, 1981-2010 - PubMed

We observed a robust correlation between higher levels of gun ownership and higher firearm homicide rates. Although we could not determine causation, we found that states with higher rates of gun ownership had disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

International correlations between gun ownership and rates of homicide and suicide - PMC

OBJECTIVE: To examine international correlations between reported rates of household gun ownership and rates of homicide and suicide with a gun. DESIGN: Survey. POPULATION: People who responded to a telephone survey conducted by the 1989 ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

State-level homicide victimization rates in the US in relation to survey measures of household firearm ownership, 2001-2003 - PubMed

Two of every three American homicide victims are killed with firearms, yet little is known about the role played by household firearms in homicide victimization. The present study is the first to examine the cross sectional association between household firearm ownership and homicide...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMsa1916744?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Gun prevalence and suicide - PubMed

In light of the ongoing debate over tighter firearm regulations, this paper considers the relationship between gun prevalence and suicide. I exploit a reform in Switzerland that reduced the prevalence of military-issued guns in private households. In Switzerland, military service is compulsory...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Gun prevalence and suicide - PubMed

In light of the ongoing debate over tighter firearm regulations, this paper considers the relationship between gun prevalence and suicide. I exploit a reform in Switzerland that reduced the prevalence of military-issued guns in private households. In Switzerland, military service is compulsory...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M21-3762

 

[ataraxia]

Post 979 demolished your “arguments” and you could address anything I said.

But hey, keep pushing for laws based in the Jim Crow era and others that require demolishing the 4A and the 5A, it is a good look for the anti-civil right gun control crowd.

Not seeing the argument there.

There were laws of traffic laws in the Jim Crow era too- doesn't mean we have to get rid of them. Now it's true that historically, certain gun laws were used in racist ways, especially during and after Reconstruction. But it’s important to distinguish between that history and what modern gun laws are actually trying to do.

Today’s laws — like background checks or red flag laws — are designed to reduce suicide, domestic violence, and mass shootings, and are based on real-world observations and measures which have been proven to work. They’re not about targeting specific groups; they’re about risk-based interventions. And the vast majority are built to comply with constitutional protections. For example, red flag laws require court orders, evidence, and due process. They don’t eliminate 4th or 5th Amendment rights — they’re subject to them.

There are actually quite a few other examples of laws or systems that were originally shaped by racist intent — especially during the Jim Crow era — but are still in use today, even though their modern justification is very different. One clear example is felon disenfranchisement laws. These were widely adopted in the South after Reconstruction to prevent Black men from voting. The idea was to criminalize certain behavior more likely to affect African Americans, then take away their right to vote once convicted. Today, those laws are still on the books in many states — not usually with the original racist intent (though there is still some of that).

Or take zoning laws, as another example. It's true that zoning was historically used to keep neighborhoods racially segregated. But today, it's mostly used for land-use planning — to separate industrial areas from residential ones, prevent overcrowding, and manage traffic or environmental concerns. Planners might not be thinking about race at all; they're thinking about infrastructure, schools, and public services.

Another one is felon disenfranchisement. Originally, this was often about targeting Black voters — no question. But today, supporters argue it’s about accountability and civic responsibility — that people who’ve committed serious crimes should show rehabilitation before regaining voting rights. Whether you agree or not, the reasoning has shifted from race-based suppression to more civic-minded (or at least public-facing) concerns.

Then there’s the use of police surveillance tools. Some of these tactics — like loitering laws or neighborhood patrols — had deeply racist roots. But now they’re often defended on the grounds of crime prevention and public safety, especially in high-crime areas. Law enforcement agencies may not be targeting racial groups per se; they’re responding to crime data and community pressure.

Even voter ID laws, which echo some of the restrictions from the Jim Crow era, are often justified today as a way to protect election integrity. Critics argue they disproportionately affect minorities and low-income voters — which is true in many cases — but the push for these laws is often framed around more pragmatic considerations of preventing fraud, not around race.

So framing all gun control as rooted in Jim Crow or unconstitutional is severely oversimplifying things. It’s fair to be skeptical of government power — a lot of people are — but that doesn’t mean all regulation is inherently oppressive. Like anything else in law or policy, the details matter.

But I understand continuing to defend your position necessitates massive generalizations

 

[poppopfox]

Post 979 demolished your “arguments” and you could address anything I said.

No it didn't, but continue with your addicted to bang arguments.

But hey, keep pushing for laws based in the Jim Crow era and others that require demolishing the 4A and the 5A, it is a good look for the anti-civil right gun control crowd.

See above comrade.

 

[RF667799]

Sure. Lots of 'em. How many do you want?

The relationship between gun ownership and firearm homicide rates in the United States, 1981-2010 - PubMed

We observed a robust correlation between higher levels of gun ownership and higher firearm homicide rates. Although we could not determine causation, we found that states with higher rates of gun ownership had disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

International correlations between gun ownership and rates of homicide and suicide - PMC

OBJECTIVE: To examine international correlations between reported rates of household gun ownership and rates of homicide and suicide with a gun. DESIGN: Survey. POPULATION: People who responded to a telephone survey conducted by the 1989 ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

State-level homicide victimization rates in the US in relation to survey measures of household firearm ownership, 2001-2003 - PubMed

Two of every three American homicide victims are killed with firearms, yet little is known about the role played by household firearms in homicide victimization. The present study is the first to examine the cross sectional association between household firearm ownership and homicide...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMsa1916744?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Gun prevalence and suicide - PubMed

In light of the ongoing debate over tighter firearm regulations, this paper considers the relationship between gun prevalence and suicide. I exploit a reform in Switzerland that reduced the prevalence of military-issued guns in private households. In Switzerland, military service is compulsory...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Gun prevalence and suicide - PubMed

In light of the ongoing debate over tighter firearm regulations, this paper considers the relationship between gun prevalence and suicide. I exploit a reform in Switzerland that reduced the prevalence of military-issued guns in private households. In Switzerland, military service is compulsory...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M21-3762

Quote the part from the one that proves guns cause people to be homicidal or suicidal.

Given that more than 99.9% of people that have or have access to guns don't become homicidal or suicidal, your claim seems counter intuitive. But let's see what ya got.

 

[JMB1911A1]

No it didn't, but continue with your addicted to bang arguments.

Still got your Chinese war rifle modified for higher capacity magazines?

See above comrade.

Nope, not a socialist like you so not your comrade.

 

[poppopfox]

Still got your Chinese war rifle modified for higher capacity magazines?

Nope, you still building assault rifles?

Nope, not a socialist like you so not your comrade.

Not a socialist but you keep throwing thise labels aroung like skat comrade.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Nope, you still building assault rifles?

Nope. I don’t have any class 2 machine guns. I would have thought someone as well versed as you would know that an “assault rifle” is select fire capable. Guess I assumed too much. I don’t have any ”assault weapons “ either.

Not a socialist but you keep throwing thise labels aroung like skat comrade.

Dude, based on your posts, you probably consider Stalin to be a right winger.

 

[ataraxia]

Quote the part from the one that proves guns cause people to be homicidal or suicidal.

Given that more than 99.9% of people that have or have access to guns don't become homicidal or suicidal, your claim seems counter intuitive. But let's see what ya got.

There’s evidence showing that the mere presence of a gun increases aggressive thoughts and behavior—a phenomenon known as the “weapons effect.”

In classic studies, participants who were exposed to firearms (even just visually) were more likely to behave aggressively than those who weren’t.

Effects of Weapons on Aggressive Thoughts, Angry Feelings, Hostile Appraisals, and Aggressive Behavior: A Meta-Analytic Review of the Weapons Effect Literature - PubMed

A landmark 1967 study showed that simply seeing a gun can increase aggression-called the "weapons effect." Since 1967, many other studies have attempted to replicate and explain the weapons effect. This meta-analysis integrates the findings of weapons effect studies conducted from 1967 to 2017...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So it’s not just about access in a moment of crisis; the presence of a gun itself can subtly alter how people think and react, raising the risk of escalation in arguments or confrontations. This psychological effect helps explain why more guns don’t necessarily lead to more safety.

The studies also show that when someone does reach a crisis point, access to a gun makes it far more likely that the outcome is deadly. Studies show that states with permit-to-purchase laws and waiting periods have significantly lower suicide and homicide rates—not because guns always turn people violent, but because they reduce impulsive acts and make dangerous moments less lethal.

So those are some reasons why the presence of guns can increase the incidence of successful homicide and suicide so much.

There are other others. Would you like to explore them?

 

[poppopfox]

Nope. I don’t have any class 2 machine guns. I would have thought someone as well versed as you would know that an “assault rifle” is select fire capable. Guess I assumed too much. I don’t have any ”assault weapons “ either.

Didn't say machine guns, did I. But you continue your lies. You ASSume too much comrade.

Dude, based on your posts, you probably consider Stalin to be a right winger.

What does that have to do with the topic of the thread? Troll elsewhere.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Didn't say machine guns, did I. But you continue your lies.

Not a lie. You said “assault rifle”, didn’t you? Let me check.

Nope, you still building assault rifles?

Not a socialist but you keep throwing thise labels aroung like skat comrade.

Yup, that is what you said.

A firearm must have at least the following characteristics to be considered an assault rifle:

• It must be capable of selective fire.
• It must have an intermediate-power cartridge: more power than a pistol but less than a standard rifle or battle rifle; examples of intermediate cartridges are the 7.92×33mm Kurz, the 7.62×39mm and 5.56×45mm NATO.
• Its ammunition must be supplied from a detachable box magazine.
• It must have an effective range of at least 300 metres (330 yards).

Rifles that meet most of these criteria, but not all, are not assault rifles according to the U.S. Army's definition. For example:

• Select-fire rifles such as the FN FAL, M14, and H&K G3 main battle rifles are not assault rifles; they fire full-powered rifle cartridges.
• Semi-automatic-only rifles like the Colt AR-15 are not assault rifles; they do not have select-fire capabilities.

Assault rifle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Assault rifle = machine gun.

It is not my fault that you are ignorant of what you wrote.

Really starting to doubt that “military service” comrade.

You ASSume too much comrade.

What does that have to do with the topic of the thread? Troll elsewhere.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

No, I am just showing you that 99% is not achievable with 1 single action.
Maybe it will never happen.
To many variables to life for that much safety.

So don't do anything because nothing is certain? Again, don't make the argument on behalf of the dictator.

 

[CLAX1911]

So don't do anything because nothing is certain? Again, don't make the argument on behalf of the dictator.

No don't do ridiculous things just because you can.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

No don't do ridiculous things just because you can.

But you can't do that according to the OP.

 

[CLAX1911]

But you can't do that according to the OP.

What ridiculous things that won't make a hill of beans if it work a difference good we don't need stupid laws

 

[rahl]

Ask a cop.

Why? The data shows guns are irrelevant to homicide and suicide rates.

 

[Nickyjo]

Why? The data shows guns are irrelevant to homicide and suicide rates.

So the presence of so many guns in uS society compared to others has nothing to do with our higher homicide rate compared to others.

 

[RF667799]

So the presence of so many guns in uS society compared to others has nothing to do with our higher homicide rate compared to others.

No, because there are lots of "others" with a higher homicide rate than the US. We're pretty much middle of the pack.

Now jack up those goalposts and get to moving them.

 

[Nickyjo]

No, because there are lots of "others" with a higher homicide rate than the US. We're pretty much middle of the pack.

Now jack up those goalposts and get to moving them.

As I understand things US homicide rate is higher than in similar societies. Quick check shows it’s 7.5 times the rates of other wealthy countries. Look it up for your self.

 

[rahl]

So the presence of so many guns in uS society compared to others has nothing to do with our higher homicide rate compared to others.

No. Since we began tracking this data, which was 1986, firearms increased by 270 million while the homicide rate fell by 40%.

And there are other societies with less firearms than we have with higher homicide rates.

 

[rahl]

As I understand things US homicide rate is higher than in similar societies. Quick check shows it’s 7.5 times the rates of other wealthy countries. Look it up for your self.

Yes, if you exclude all the countries that are higher, you can claim the US is quite high. You simply won’t be allowed to cherry pick here though.

 

[Nickyjo]

Yes, if you exclude all the countries that are higher, you can claim the US is quite high. You simply won’t be allowed to cherry pick here though.

Look it up and explain my error. “US homicide rate compared to similar countries.” There are of course factors unrelated to guns, but it seems absurd to posit that guns don’t play a part. Why do you think old western towns banned guns? And why do we not allow guns on planes?