Gun control is damn near the equivalent of car control

[The Brad Dad]

You don't know what "cars" are, and that virtually every "car" can be used to break every speed limit in the country?

You mean that cars have ENGINES? Yup. I do believe they allow the automobile to move forward (that means car go VROOM VROOM!)

 

[RF667799]

No idea what argument you're responding to. Go fail at them?

Now you don't even know what post you were responding to?

 

[MikePrime]

The best evidence is a comparison of the US' astronomically high rate of violent shootings, and its lax gun laws, compared to most other 1st world countries, with stricter gun laws and way lower rates of violent shootings

There is also this.

Research suggests that stronger gun control laws are associated with reduced rates of gun violence, including shootings, while weaker gun laws are linked to higher rates. States with stricter gun laws often have lower rates of gun deaths and mass shootings, while those with more permissive laws tend to have higher rates.

Evidence supporting this:

• California's experience:
  California has some of the strongest gun laws in the US and also has some of the lowest rates of gun deaths and gun ownership
• Comparing states:
  States with weaker gun laws, like Texas and Florida, have higher rates of gun violence than California.

I'm not completely against regulation, like things like background checks and such i am with you.

Though according to this logic, explain New Hampshire.

Mass shootings:
A study found that states with more permissive gun laws and greater gun ownership had higher rates of mass shootings.

• And before you start, i am not anti gun. I am a rural landowner, i own more guns than most people, i actually use them as the tools they are, not just at some suburban range.

Wrong, explain the state of Illinois.

 

[The Brad Dad]

Ahhh, the follower again.

Only because you want it to be.
Cars killed 39,345 people who didn't want to die.
Firearms killed 17,927 people who didn't want to die.

Vehicles also transported medicine, food, victims to hospitals, supplies, commerce, etc, etc. And the number of them on the road plus people means those stats are tiiiiiiiny. Cars are a boon to society when used for the movement of goods and people. When guns are used as they're intended, people just get shot. Not a single mouth fed anywhere.

 

[RF667799]

You mean that cars have ENGINES? Yup. I do believe they allow the automobile to move forward (that means car go VROOM VROOM!)

Well damn. Suddenly you know what cars are. That's a start.

Now tell us what social benefit there is to possessing one that can be used to break every speeding regulation in the country.

 

[L88]

Vehicles also transported medicine, food, victims to hospitals, supplies, commerce, etc, etc. And the number of them on the road plus people means those stats are tiiiiiiiny. Cars are a boon to society when used for the movement of goods and people. When guns are used as they're intended, people just get shot. Not a single mouth fed anywhere.

Last I heard from progressives, autos are killing the world with carbon and other pollutants.

But the bottom line is, ****ing humans misuse both products, and both are good for obtaining food, recreation, and defense.

 

[RF667799]

Vehicles also transported medicine, food, victims to hospitals, supplies, commerce, etc, etc. And the number of them on the road plus people means those stats are tiiiiiiiny. Cars are a boon to society when used for the movement of goods and people. When guns are used as they're intended, people just get shot. Not a single mouth fed anywhere.

Which guns are manufactured and sold to be used for the purpose of murder?

If your claim is that guns categorically have no purpose other than to shoot people, the reality that guns are overwhelmingly used for purposes other than shooting people makes your claim laughable.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Vehicles also transported medicine, food, victims to hospitals, supplies, commerce, etc, etc. And the number of them on the road plus people means those stats are tiiiiiiiny. Cars are a boon to society when used for the movement of goods and people. When guns are used as they're intended, people just get shot. Not a single mouth fed anywhere.

1.7 MILLION defensive gun uses per a year where people protected themselves and the majority don’t require anyone to be shot.

 

[The Brad Dad]

1.7 MILLION defensive gun uses per a year where people protected themselves and the majority don’t require anyone to be shot.

Source? This stat is usually anecdotal and bullshit. "I thought someone was gonna rob me, so I took out my shottie and "they" backed off" = defensive gun use.

 

[dairyair]

Absolutely legal. All I have to do is go to an FFL/SOT, pay my money, submit my form for a tax stamp, and wait. And the wait is getting down to single digit days.

Never claimed anything about legal or illegal.
I said, infringement.

Doing extra work and payments can be considered an infringement.

 

[Spock]

You were witness to how another poster uses an equivocation to "prove" that cell phones and shotguns aren't portable. And how he steadfastly refuses to define "can", because that would blow his "proof" out of the water.

And how many gun banners have made the claim that nobody needs an AR-15, but absolutely refuse to define "need"?

Here's your statement that I asked you to define your terms: Turns out inadequate regulations result in inadequete results.

So define "inadequate". There's nothing says I have to agree with what you categorize as "inadequate regulations" nor "inadequate results". I bet they come down to your opinion.

I cannot help you with your difficulty and refuse to indulge your faux incomprehension.

 

[RF667799]

I cannot help you with your difficulty and refuse to indulge your faux incomprehension.

Your reply is pure ad hominem and is rejected on that basis.

Try bringing arguments to an argument. You'll fare better.

 

[Spock]

History I took in HS in 1974.

AI Overview


Pennsylvania holds a significant place in the historical foundation of the Second Amendment, specifically due to its early inclusion of a right to bear arms in its own state constitution
.
Here's a breakdown of Pennsylvania's role:

• Early Codification: Pennsylvania was one of the first states to include a right to bear arms in its constitution before the Second Amendment was ratified.
• 1776 Pennsylvania Constitution: Article 13 of the 1776 Pennsylvania Constitution's Declaration of Rights stated that "the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the state". It also addressed standing armies and military subordination to civil power.
• Emphasis on Self-Defense: The phrasing "defense of themselves" in the Pennsylvania constitution has been used to support the argument for an individual right to bear arms for self-defense.
• Influence on the Bill of Rights: The Declaration of Rights in the Pennsylvania Constitution, including its provision on bearing arms, influenced the creation and adoption of the federal Bill of Rights.

Pennsylvania's early inclusion of the right to bear arms, explicitly mentioning self-defense, set a precedent and contributed to the discussions about the Second Amendment during the development of the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

You have not shown the connection and the "defense" in the Pennsylvania document refers to defense of the state via a militia and personal arms use in that militia.

You need to connect it directly with the 1789 Constitutional convention, which will be difficult since notes were not taken apparently.
The formulation of 2A wording is really quite unproven and does not have a clear road map.


BTW Pennsylvania document:

Bill of Rights: Pennsylvania Constitution of 1776, Declaration of Rights

XIII. That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

 

[Spock]

You used both terms "handgun" and "modify" in your argument, ask me to define them after, and then say you're being "quite clear".

Just go ahead and define them however you like, and answer the question I asked.

You should define what you mean by define if that is really important to you.

 

[RF667799]

You should define what you mean by define if that is really important to you.

Sad that petulance has become your game.

 

[Spock]

Your reply is pure ad hominem and is rejected on that basis.

Try bringing arguments to an argument. You'll fare better.

You posts are pure nonsense and deserve far less effort and attention than I have given to them.

 

[dairyair]

Not to own one.

On public roads.

Only for use in public roads.

Only for use on public roads.

Yup. The left doesn’t get it. You have no idea of what you are taking about.

If guns were regulated like cars:

- I could legally take my gun to any private range (99% of ranges are privately owned) in my car. Just like towing my race car to any track.
- No requirement for a license to buy a gun (or license to buy a car).
- No age limit to buy a gun (vehicle).
- Unlimited use of gun (vehicle) on private property with no license needed.
- 100% reciprocity of guns (vehicles) in every state. CA may ban ARs but my FL registered AR is allowed in CA just like my diesel truck.
- 100% reciprocity of licenses. I can drive in every state of union plus DC with a FL license, so I should be able to carry everywhere as well, right?

Claymore mines are destructive devices and you can own one if you follow ATF procedures.

Yes, a claymore can be owned. So can a fully auto rifle.
But there's greater infringements to owning them than a run of the mill gun.

the 2A says bearable arms, 'shall not be infringed'.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Source? This stat is usually anecdotal and bullshit. "I thought someone was gonna rob me, so I took out my shottie and "they" backed off" = defensive gun use.

The largest-ever survey of American gun owners finds that defensive use of firearms is common

A large survey of American gun owners suggests that they use firearms for self-defense about 1.7 million times a year.

reason.com

 

[JMB1911A1]

Yes, a claymore can be owned. So can a fully auto rifle.
But there's greater infringements to owning them than a run of the mill gun.

the 2A says bearable arms, 'shall not be infringed'.

You sure you don’t want to go back to your “regulate guns like cars” argument?

 

[Spock]

Yes, a claymore can be owned. So can a fully auto rifle.
But there's greater infringements to owning them than a run of the mill gun.

the 2A says bearable arms, 'shall not be infringed'.

SCOTUS has not, AFAIK, determined what "infringed" means.
Also, 2A does not address the type of arms, so "bearable arms" is over-reading.

 

[RF667799]

You posts are pure nonsense and deserve far less effort and attention than I have given to them.

Is this the nonsense post that led to this most recent meltdown:

You were witness to how another poster uses an equivocation to "prove" that cell phones and shotguns aren't portable. And how he steadfastly refuses to define "can", because that would blow his "proof" out of the water.

And how many gun banners have made the claim that nobody needs an AR-15, but absolutely refuse to define "need"?

Here's your statement that I asked you to define your terms: Turns out inadequate regulations result in inadequete results.

So define "inadequate". There's nothing says I have to agree with what you categorize as "inadequate regulations" nor "inadequate results". I bet they come down to your opinion.

 

[L88]

You have not shown the connection and the "defense" in the Pennsylvania document refers to defense of the state via a militia and personal arms use in that militia.

You need to connect it directly with the 1789 Constitutional convention, which will be difficult since notes were not taken apparently.
The formulation of 2A wording is really quite unproven and does not have a clear road map.


BTW Pennsylvania document:

Bill of Rights: Pennsylvania Constitution of 1776, Declaration of Rights

XIII. That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

Yeah, what the **** ever. From legal experts.

William Penn proved to be a visionary when it came to civil rights. His conception of a declaration of rights, which was incorporated into Pennsylvania's first constitution, served as a model to federal delegates in the development of the Bill of Rights.

Pa.'s Declaration of Rights Served as Model for Bill of Rights | Law.com https://share.google/XG6rwJBqlVEtxI8ve

 

[ataraxia]

1.7 MILLION defensive gun uses per a year where people protected themselves and the majority don’t require anyone to be shot.

All countries with more common sense gun control have far less violent crime.

You know where we can find the highest frequency of defensive gun uses? A battlefield. But a battlefield is not a safe place to live, despite such a high incidence of defensive gun uses.

The gun lobby just wants to turn the US into a giant war zone, just so they can sell more weapons for profit. Don't fall for the propaganda. It's not making anyone safer. The facts are: more guns=more crime. That's been shown to be true at the level of states as well as countries. The gun lobby is no better than the tobacco industry: happy to kill people for a little more profit.

More Guns, More Crime

Founded in 1920, the NBER is a private, non-profit, non-partisan organization dedicated to conducting economic research and to disseminating research findings among academics, public policy makers, and business professionals.

www.nber.org

 

[L88]

All countries with more common sense gun control have far less violent crime.

You know where we can find the highest frequency of defensive gun uses? A battlefield. But a battlefield is not a safe place to live, despite such a high incidence of defensive gun uses.

The gun lobby just wants to turn the US into a giant war zone, just so they can sell more weapons for profit. Don't fall for the propaganda. It's not making anyone safer. The facts are: more guns=more crime. That's been shown to be true at the level of states as well as countries. The gun lobby is no better than the tobacco industry: happy to kill people for a little more profit.

More Guns, More Crime

Founded in 1920, the NBER is a private, non-profit, non-partisan organization dedicated to conducting economic research and to disseminating research findings among academics, public policy makers, and business professionals.

www.nber.org

More guns every day in the US and crime decreases still.

Other countries don't tolerate a lot of things that prevent homicides. In the UK, at least in London you can be arrested for antisocial behavior. 35 million guns in Europe are illegal. That's over 50%of all guns in Europe. Yet they get used rarely. Why,? Because you go to jail for 5 years or more just for carrying it.
Europe allows stop and search on a very low bar.

 

[RF667799]

All countries with more common sense gun control have far less violent crime.

Mexico is just about a gun control zealot's wet dream when it comes to stringent gun control laws. How they doing on violent crime?

(Now watch for the goalpost shift.)

You know where we can find the highest frequency of defensive gun uses? A battlefield. But a battlefield is not a safe place to live, despite such a high incidence of defensive gun uses.

Gee, that would be a good counter if someone had ever made the argument that "a safe place to live" is defined by a high frequency of defensive gun uses.

The gun lobby just wants to turn the US into a giant war zone, just so they can sell more weapons for profit. Don't fall for the propaganda. It's not making anyone safer. The facts are: more guns=more crime. That's been shown to be true at the level of states as well as countries. The gun lobby is no better than the tobacco industry: happy to kill people for a little more profit.

Lies supported by hyperbole. You didn't convince me.

More Guns, More Crime

Founded in 1920, the NBER is a private, non-profit, non-partisan organization dedicated to conducting economic research and to disseminating research findings among academics, public policy makers, and business professionals.

www.nber.org