Gulf Stream slowing down

[Threegoofs]

Atlantic Ocean overturning slowing down; global warming to blame - Techie News

This will be published in Nature Climate Change(you know... that journal that was actually created by one of the most respected journals in science to house all the papers documenting scientific evidence of the thing that deniers pretend there is no consensus on or is not happening or is so minor its not worth mentioning?)

Atlantic Ocean overturning slowing down; global warming to blame

BY RAVI MANDALIAIN SCIENCE — 24 MAR, 2015


The Atlantic overturning also known as the Gulf Stream system, pegged as the most important heat transport systems, is slowing down owing to global warming and if the trend continues, researchers have said that it will not only impact marine ecosystems and sea levels but will also impact weather systems in the US and Europe to a great extent.

The Gulf Stream system is responsible for the mild climate in northwestern Europe and transports more water than all the world’s rivers combined. It is part of the bigger “Atlantic meridional overturning circulation”. The warm Gulf Stream flows northward into cooler waters and splits into what is called the North Atlantic Current. This stream flows still further toward northern latitudes — until it reaches points where colder, salty water sinks due to its greater density, and then travels back southward at depth.



This form of transportation plays a major role in the climate because it brings warm water northward, thereby helping to warm Europe’s climate, and also sends cold water back towards the tropics.

One of the key driving factors of this overturning is the density of water – cold salt water is more dense than warm water and therefore it sinks. However, there is a vulnerability in this system whereby if too much ice melts there will be freshening of the cold salt water, which decreases its density thereby reducing its tendency to sink below the surface. This could lead to a slow down of circulation eventually stopping at a point.

More info here: Atlantic Ocean overturning, responsible for mild climate in northwestern Europe, is slowing -- ScienceDaily

 

[Dovkan]

"BBUTTT, GLOBAL WARMING'S A CONSPIRACY THAT DOESN'T HAVE A SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS, OR ANY EVIDENCE LALALALA" But in all seriousness, the effects on our climate are evident, and we need to take action.

 

[Jack Fabulous]

Interesting.

Worth noting, however, they did not back up their statement by providing any data to support it. The theory is that an influx of fresh water in the northern latitudes due to increased ice melt will decrease the salinity of the ocean water making it less dense. This would in turn slow down the rate it sinks and basically slow down the "engine" that drives the convection cycle which creates the Gulf Stream. They need to demonstrate with actual data that the salinity is decreasing or has decreased.

 

[VanceMack]

So you both swallowed hard. Are you saying that IS (definitely...absolutely) what has happened?

 

[Dovkan]

Interesting.

Worth noting, however, they did not back up their statement by providing any data to support it. The theory is that an influx of fresh water in the northern latitudes due to increased ice melt will decrease the salinity of the ocean water making it less dense. This would in turn slow down the rate it sinks and basically slow down the "engine" that drives the convection cycle which creates the Gulf Stream. They need to demonstrate with actual data that the salinity is decreasing or has decreased.

They have a prediction that is supported by evidence, the gulf stream is slowing down, that's a fact, the prediction and observations usually coincide with the evidence.
https://www.pik-potsdam.de/pik-frontpage

 

[Dovkan]

So you both swallowed hard. Are you saying that IS (definitely...absolutely) what has happened?

The evidence supports that it is happening.

 

[VanceMack]

The evidence supports that it is happening.

Thats not what I asked. You tripped over yourself claiming V I C T O R Y in your cause. So...direct statement...are you proclaiming without a doubt it is proven and settled?

 

[Jack Fabulous]

They have a prediction that is supported by evidence, the gulf stream is slowing down, that's a fact, the prediction and observations usually coincide with the evidence.
https://www.pik-potsdam.de/pik-frontpage

The only evidence that is relevant is data which shows that salinity has decreased.

I'm not taking a side here, I just think that claims like this need to be backed up by actual data... data that doesn't seem like it should be all that difficult to provide.

 

[Dovkan]

Thats not what I asked. You tripped over yourself claiming V I C T O R Y in your cause. So...direct statement...are you proclaiming without a doubt it is proven and settled?

I will say that the evidence all points towards the gulf stream slowing down, with no refutations to be found. So yes, I proclaim with 99.99999% accuracy that it is settled, this seems sort of ridiculous, nothing as "certainty" when applying it like this.
https://www.pik-potsdam.de/

 

[Dovkan]

The only evidence that is relevant is data which shows that salinity has decreased.

I'm not taking a side here, I just think that claims like this need to be backed up by actual data... data that doesn't seem like it should be all that difficult to provide.

They do have data, the salinity has decreased, and the gulf stream is slowing down, all evidence shows this, maybe if there was some evidence that did not point to this, there would be an argument. I'm trying to understand here, there is actual data?..

 

[Jack Fabulous]

They do have data, the salinity has decreased, and the gulf stream is slowing down, all evidence shows this, maybe if there was some evidence that did not point to this, there would be an argument. I'm trying to understand here, there is actual data?..

Salinity is simply the amount of salt dissolved in the water. If they have this data, could you post it because I can't seem to find it.

 

[Dovkan]

Salinity is simply the amount of salt dissolved in the water. If they have this data, could you post it because I can't seem to find it.

Imprecise probability assessment of tipping points in the climate system

The Thermohaline Circulation - The Great Ocean Conveyor Belt | Precipitation Education

An Integrated Assessment of changes in the thermohaline circulation - Springer

https://www.pik-potsdam.de/news/pre...-overturning-found-to-slow-down-already-today

 

[VanceMack]

I will say that the evidence all points towards the gulf stream slowing down, with no refutations to be found. So yes, I proclaim with 99.99999% accuracy that it is settled, this seems sort of ridiculous, nothing as "certainty" when applying it like this.
https://www.pik-potsdam.de/

-multiple lines of observation suggest
-is a possible major contributor
-long-term direct ocean current measurements are lacking,
-temperatures can be reconstructed for more than a millennium back in time
-unprecedented since the year 900 AD, strongly suggesting they are caused by human-made global warming.
-likely disturbing the circulation
-this effect might increase if temperatures are allowed to rise further
-observed cooling in the North Atlantic, just south of Greenland, is stronger than what most computer simulations of the climate have predicted so far. "Common climate models are underestimating the change we're facing, either because the Atlantic overturning is too stable in the models or because they don't properly account for Greenland ice sheet melt, or both
-(THIS IS AWESOME...they cite a 'Hollywood blockbuster') The scientists certainly do not expect a new ice age, thus the imagery of the ten-year-old Hollywood blockbuster 'The Day After Tomorrow' is far from reality
-"If the slowdown of the Atlantic overturning continues, the impacts might be substantial,"
-likely have a negative effect on the ocean ecosystem
-If the circulation weakens too much
-(IPCC) estimates there to be an up to one-in-ten chance that this could happen as early as within this century

All those ifs, maybe's, coulds, mights, wishes and dreams should come as a comfort to NASA...
Deepest Parts of Earth's Oceans Aren't Heating Up: NASA Study - NBC News

 

[Jack Fabulous]

Imprecise probability assessment of tipping points in the climate system

The Thermohaline Circulation - The Great Ocean Conveyor Belt | Precipitation Education

An Integrated Assessment of changes in the thermohaline circulation - Springer

https://www.pik-potsdam.de/news/pre...-overturning-found-to-slow-down-already-today

Sorry, but none of these sources provides what I am asking for.

It's really very simple... they believe that the Gulf Stream is slowing down because of increased melting which is diluting sea water in the northern latitudes preventing it from sinking. It is the sinking of very cold, saline water which drives the convection cycle which creates the Gulf Stream. If this is true they should be able to support this claim with evidence which basically says that the salinity levels ave decreased by "X" percent which is causing this slowdown.

I'm looking for an actual measure of "X" to compare to what it was in the past as confirmation that their theory is correct.

 

[DA60]

Yeah, yeah...more global warming stuff.

Hey, it might be true, but I don't much care.

I do my part for the environment and I will be dead long before it affects me greatly (assuming it is true).

And if global warming does wipe out humanity eventually, fine by me. Any race dumb enough to let that happen, deserves everything they get and the universe is better off without them.

 

[Dovkan]

-multiple lines of observation suggest
-is a possible major contributor
-long-term direct ocean current measurements are lacking,
-temperatures can be reconstructed for more than a millennium back in time
-unprecedented since the year 900 AD, strongly suggesting they are caused by human-made global warming.
-likely disturbing the circulation
-this effect might increase if temperatures are allowed to rise further
-observed cooling in the North Atlantic, just south of Greenland, is stronger than what most computer simulations of the climate have predicted so far. "Common climate models are underestimating the change we're facing, either because the Atlantic overturning is too stable in the models or because they don't properly account for Greenland ice sheet melt, or both
-(THIS IS AWESOME...they cite a 'Hollywood blockbuster') The scientists certainly do not expect a new ice age, thus the imagery of the ten-year-old Hollywood blockbuster 'The Day After Tomorrow' is far from reality
-"If the slowdown of the Atlantic overturning continues, the impacts might be substantial,"
-likely have a negative effect on the ocean ecosystem
-If the circulation weakens too much
-(IPCC) estimates there to be an up to one-in-ten chance that this could happen as early as within this century

All those ifs, maybe's, coulds, mights, wishes and dreams should come as a comfort to NASA...
Deepest Parts of Earth's Oceans Aren't Heating Up: NASA Study - NBC News

Ah, you have the usual rhetoric I'd expect. The predictions and models put forth are based on evidence, there is no logical reason to not believe humans are causing the gulf stream to slow down, also, climate change doesn't always have to do with heating, there are more measurements to consider then just deep ocean temperatures, the overall average temperature has been rising, not just one particular variable. I don't think you really like NASA with the wording of your last sentence, which is disturbing to me. I have yet to see your evidence that the gulf stream is not slowing down, pointing out a cherry picked temperature variable does nothing to the evidence and predictions put forth by actual climate scientists.

 

[Dovkan]

Yeah, yeah...more global warming stuff.

Hey, it might be true, but I don't much care.

I do my part for the environment and I will be dead long before it affects me greatly (assuming it is true).

And if global warming does wipe out humanity eventually, fine by me. Any race dumb enough to let that happen, deserves everything they get and the universe is better off without them.

Wow, you've summed up the new stance the GOP is taking.

 

[Dovkan]

Sorry, but none of these sources provides what I am asking for.

It's really very simple... they believe that the Gulf Stream is slowing down because of increased melting which is diluting sea water in the northern latitudes preventing it from sinking. It is the sinking of very cold, saline water which drives the convection cycle which creates the Gulf Stream. If this is true they should be able to support this claim with evidence which basically says that the salinity levels ave decreased by "X" percent which is causing this slowdown.

I'm looking for an actual measure of "X" to compare to what it was in the past as confirmation that their theory is correct.

Then I cannot provide that, give me evidence the gulf stream isn't slowing down, I've given the studies done.

 

[DA60]

Wow, you've summed up the new stance the GOP is taking.

The GOP has officially said 'And if global warming does wipe out humanity eventually, fine by me. Any race dumb enough to let that happen, deserves everything they get and the universe is better off without them.'?

I doubt it.

Not that I much care...the GOP and the other guys are both moronic, pathetic, useless political parties.

 

[Jack Fabulous]

Then I cannot provide that, give me evidence the gulf stream isn't slowing down, I've given the studies done.

I never made the claim that it wasn't slowing down. I only asked for evidence to support the theory of WHY it is slowing down.

 

[Dovkan]

I never made the claim that it wasn't slowing down. I only asked for evidence to support the theory of WHY it is slowing down.

I've given it to you.

 

[Threegoofs]

Interesting.

Worth noting, however, they did not back up their statement by providing any data to support it. The theory is that an influx of fresh water in the northern latitudes due to increased ice melt will decrease the salinity of the ocean water making it less dense. This would in turn slow down the rate it sinks and basically slow down the "engine" that drives the convection cycle which creates the Gulf Stream. They need to demonstrate with actual data that the salinity is decreasing or has decreased.

That's what the paper is about.

 

[Jack Fabulous]

That's what the paper is about.

When you are talking about the Gulf Stream slowing down, that is EXACTLY what the paper is about because temperature and salinity are the engine that drives it. The paper, however, did not contain salinity data that I could find. I'm not saying it isn't there, I just can't seem to find it.

 

[Jack Fabulous]

I've given it to you.

Why would you even bother replying to me with a post like this?

I asked for salinity data and none of your sources have it. Either provide it or stop wasting my time.

 

[Mithros]

Interesting.

Worth noting, however, they did not back up their statement by providing any data to support it. The theory is that an influx of fresh water in the northern latitudes due to increased ice melt will decrease the salinity of the ocean water making it less dense. This would in turn slow down the rate it sinks and basically slow down the "engine" that drives the convection cycle which creates the Gulf Stream. They need to demonstrate with actual data that the salinity is decreasing or has decreased.

It's there, but you need to follow a few links
http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nclimate2554.html