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Speculation from unnamed 'officials' to a journalist aren't really anything to take to the bank, if you'll excuse the pun.The Troika only rejected immediate debt relief, not debt relief in principle. From The Guardian:
Some form of debt restructuring would be promised to Athens in the future, but it would come with strings attached and not as part of the current bailout package, they said.
No, he wouldn't have, but then again, he wouldn't (and we know this because he didn't when last in power) do anything to alleviate the suffering of the Greek people. He was merely a place-man for the Troika, someone to implement their failed strategy.The former Prime Minister may not have been an outstanding leader, but compared to the current Prime Minister he would be a vastly superior choice. It is highly unlikely that he would have blown up the negotiations as Tsipiras did.
They have negotiated in bad faith throughout. They have led the Grrek government to believe that they would negotiate and haven't offered anything, not debt relief, not restructuring of the debt. What concessions do you believe they have made towards the Greek government's position since February?I disagree. They worked to conclude a deal. They did not walk out. They didn't punt on their responsibilities.
I just hope that the Greeks take their courage in their own hands and call the Troika's bluff on Sunday.That's always possible. I was alluding to what I thought would be the best-case outcome. The opposition should make the referendum and any election a mandate on remaining within the Euro Zone and tie the Tsipiras government and Syriza to seeking a backdoor exit.
Speculation from unnamed 'officials' to a journalist aren't really anything to take to the bank, if you'll excuse the pun.
No, he wouldn't have, but then again, he wouldn't (and we know this because he didn't when last in power) do anything to alleviate the suffering of the Greek people. He was merely a place-man for the Troika, someone to implement their failed strategy.
They have negotiated in bad faith throughout. They have led the Grrek government to believe that they would negotiate and haven't offered anything, not debt relief, not restructuring of the debt. What concessions do you believe they have made towards the Greek government's position since February?
I just hope that the Greeks take their courage in their own hands and call the Troika's bluff on Sunday.
Reducing a limit that Greece has no chance of achieving any more than it had of achieving the (marginally) higher one is no concession at all.Concessions included a lower primary surplus. From the IMF's Chief Economist Olivier Blanchard:
The offer made to the Greek government last week reflected these considerations and these tradeoffs. It proposed to lower the medium term primary budget surplus target from 4.5% of GDP to 3.5%, and give Greece two more years to achieve that target—so the target for this year was reduced to 1%—and it asked for a more limited set of reforms.
As Fenton pointed out, he also undertook yet another fraud on reporting to the Troika, presided over the worst depression in Greek history, saw hundreds of thousands of lost jobs, completely botched privatisations and refused to challenge the Troika on the failure of its strategy and, most damning of all, utterly failed to reduce the overall level of debt or increase GDP growth.As for the former Prime Minister, he didn't inflict a completely avoidable banking holiday, capital controls, and pension rationing on Greece's people. For all his failings, he never sought to move Greece out of the Euro Zone and he took tough decisions.
Joseph Stiglitz: how I would vote in the Greek referendum | Business | The GuardianOf course, the economics behind the programme that the “troika” (the European Commission, the European Central Bank, and the International Monetary Fund) foisted on Greece five years ago has been abysmal, resulting in a 25% decline in the country’s GDP. I can think of no depression, ever, that has been so deliberate and had such catastrophic consequences: Greece’s rate of youth unemployment, for example, now exceeds 60%.
It is startling that the troika has refused to accept responsibility for any of this or admit how bad its forecasts and models have been. But what is even more surprising is that Europe’s leaders have not even learned. The troika is still demanding that Greece achieve a primary budget surplus (excluding interest payments) of 3.5% of GDP by 2018.
Isn't it a sign of madness to repeat the same mistakes in the hope that the outcome will be different?I hope the ECB will raise its emergency assistance so that capital controls will be unnecessary. Following the election of a new government, I hope that the troika will be generous in debt relief in exchange for credible reform commitments.
Reducing a limit that Greece has no chance of achieving any more than it had of achieving the (marginally) higher one is no concession at all.
It is no virtue to make 'tough decisions' that immeasurably damage the welfare of your people. As Stiglitz points out...
Had the Greek government been willing to undertake offsetting reforms and had it not abandoned earlier commitments, perhaps an even lower figure could have been agreed.
While Stiglitz makes some fair points, it should also be noted that the Greek economy had actually resumed growth during 2014.
Greek Economy Returns to Growth - WSJ
Following its election, the Tsipiras government abandoned reforms, acted chaotically, and undermined the nascent recovery, finally suffocating it with its choice to expose Greece to capital controls and pension rationing, not to mention imperil its weak financial system.
Not too surprisingly, all of Greece's newspapers are also urging a "Yes" vote tomorrow.
Leading Greek Newspapers Urge
They understand the radical nature of the current government, the destructive path it has deliberately adopted with little concern for Greece's people, and the potentially catastrophic consequences of exiting the Euro Zone. The newspapers are also pushing back against a government that refuses to inform the people that a "No" vote could lead to Greece's exit from the Euro, something a majority of Greeks oppose. Tsipiras, of course, is complaining (Greece news media taking sides in coverage of upcoming vote - LA Times), but when a government isn't honest with its people about the implications of its policy choices, good journalists need to provide the facts.
It’s Not The Greeks Who Failed, It’s The EU
Zero Hedge | On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
Had the Greek government been willing to undertake offsetting reforms and had it not abandoned earlier commitments, perhaps an even lower figure could have been agreed.
While Stiglitz makes some fair points, it should also be noted that the Greek economy had actually resumed growth during 2014.
Greek Economy Returns to Growth - WSJ
Following its election, the Tsipiras government abandoned reforms, acted chaotically, and undermined the nascent recovery, finally suffocating it with its choice to expose Greece to capital controls and pension rationing, not to mention imperil its weak financial system.
Not too surprisingly, all of Greece's newspapers are also urging a "Yes" vote tomorrow.
Leading Greek Newspapers Urge
They understand the radical nature of the current government, the destructive path it has deliberately adopted with little concern for Greece's people, and the potentially catastrophic consequences of exiting the Euro Zone. The newspapers are also pushing back against a government that refuses to inform the people that a "No" vote could lead to Greece's exit from the Euro, something a majority of Greeks oppose. Tsipiras, of course, is complaining (Greece news media taking sides in coverage of upcoming vote - LA Times), but when a government isn't honest with its people about the implications of its policy choices, good journalists need to provide the facts.
Requires subscription, couldn't read.While Stiglitz makes some fair points, it should also be noted that the Greek economy had actually resumed growth during 2014.
Greek Economy Returns to Growth - WSJ
No, it didn't. It presented a document outlining its commitment to reforms in February. The Eurogroup welcomed those proposals, but then rejected them. That's not 'abandoning reform'.Following its election, the Tsipiras government abandoned reforms,
It was the Troika's decision to suspend ELA, not Greece's. I suspect it did so to pressurise the Greek people into voting for their austerity package tomorrow.suffocating it with its choice to expose Greece to capital controls and pension rationing,
Yes, unsurprising that the three newspapers your link refers to would urge that. The Greek oligarchy has always controlled traditional media. They supported the authoritarian measures of the Troika's favoured Samaras government, Syriza's opponents in the January election and are now cheer-leading for a return to austerity and authoritarianism. The Samaras government was the most repressive regime Greece had seen since the Colonels and went so far as to close down the national public broadcaster for failing to toe the government's political strategy.Not too surprisingly, all of Greece's newspapers are also urging a "Yes" vote tomorrow.
Today, NBC News reported:
"What they're doing with Greece has a name: terrorism," said Varoufakis. "Why have they forced us to close the banks? To frighten people. And when it's about spreading terror, that is known as terrorism."
Greece Finance Minister Varoufakis Accuses Creditors of 'Terrorism' Ahead of Referendum - NBC News
The better analogy would be that the Tsipiras government is acting in the fashion as a suicide bomber in blowing up the negotiations and inflicting on Greece's people the current financial system restrictions, all because the EU/ECB/IMF did not capitulate to Syriza's maximum demands.
Requires subscription, couldn't read.
No, it didn't. It presented a document outlining its commitment to reforms in February. The Eurogroup welcomed those proposals, but then rejected them. That's not 'abandoning reform'.
It was the Troika's decision to suspend ELA, not Greece's. I suspect it did so to pressurise the Greek people into voting for their austerity package tomorrow.
Never the less, it is incorrect to claim that ALL Greek newspapers are urging a yes vote. Simply untrue.
I see you approve of apocalyptic rhetoric. I'm surprised.
I don't. The Greek Finance Minister used such hyperbole. I merely commented that his analogy was misplaced and provided a more accurate one. There is no "terrorism" of any kind involved. There is terrible decision making by the current Greek government and, to a much lesser extent, the Troika. Just as the current government attempted to evade leadership responsibility by throwing the choice to Greece's people, it is trying to gain a "No" vote using hyperbole that has nothing to do with what is actually taking place.
One point in the article is especially virulent and aggressive in the Euroland handling of the Greek mess. It is demonstrating a degree of moral bankruptcy to its population that is dangerous in legitimacy based systems.
The Greeks aren't Snow White by any means. But the article still makes valid points on the EU's side of things.
No question that the Greeks as a society managed to make so very much less out of the chance they that it is very sad. It is not the recent government, though, that are most responsible. They did quite a good job, really and have made Europeans look at the state of their union, or at least made it much more difficult for the Eurocrats to hide it.
Who said it was? That's the opposite of what I said. I'll put that down to English not being your first language. No biggie.
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