We have been through this a few years back, even Magic and Bird admit that Michael is the greatest player ever. His career PER, and consecutive seasons with PER's above 30 indicate this. Its not even a debate.
Sure it is a debate.
"We could not have won 70 games playing against 1980's teams."
-Dennis Rodman, starting power forward for the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls
Even Rodman admits that the teams of the 90's were weaker than the teams of the 80's. Bird and Magic also used to say that the only stat that mattered to them was the others, with no mention of Jordan at all.
If you don't want to go around again, especially since I spanked you before...
Tehn stay out of it. Years later, new crop of DPers.
:lamo
First off, you are basing your initial argument on the sentiments of Rodman? Oh that's just too cute.
You spanked yourself Bodi! It is the general consensus among the entire sports spectrum that Michael Jordan was not only the greatest basketball player ever, but the greatest athlete ever. The only ones who disagree are Lakers and Celtics homers. There is no argument, there is no debate, as it ended after the 6th championship.
Do you have any statistics to back up your statement? Nope! They all belong to MJ.
Michael Jordan...
There is no comparison.
He was not only the best player on the best team of his time, but he won. Kobe Bryant might challenge Jordan at some point, but he's gonna have to win a few more without Shaq.
Let me fix your list for you....
1 - Michael Jordan
2 - Oscar Robertson
3 - Larry Bird
4 - Magic Johnson
5 - Kobe Bryant
6 - Lebron James
7 - Wilt Chamberlain
8 - Pete Maravich
9 - Bill Russell
10 - Jerry West
Some may disagree with my list, but I seriously doubt there is a bigger fan of the game of basketball on this forum. How you can post a top 10 list and 6 "honorable mentions" without having Maravich on that list is beyond me. Lebron - still has plenty of time to move up on that list, but IMO he may go down as the greatest of all-time. His size, strength, speed and desire puts him in a category all his own. Like MJ before him, he has redefined "greatness". I realize that MJ has 6 rings, but he didn't win a single one without a co-star (Scottie Pippen). Lebron hasn't had a co-star with the caliber of a Scottie Pippen. Magic had Worthy and Kareem. Bird had McHale, DJ and Parish. Lebron will most likely go down as the greatest, if not #2.
I will also add that the 80's was the greatest period for the NBA. The Lakers and Celtics of the 80's were the best teams I've ever seen. I'd take the 1986 Celtics and match them up against any team that has won a championship since then. I'd take the 1987 Lakers and match them up against anyone but the 1986 Celtics. The Lakers and Celtics rivalry of the 1980's was unlike anything we will most likely ever see again. Those two teams were absolutely incredible and they played like a team, which is something you don't see much of nowadays because the NBA is all about the "superstar" thanks to Herr Stern. Stern has done a lot for the game, but he has also done a lot to ruin the NBA.
Sorry, I see LeBron at #6 and have to stop taking the list seriously right there. He hasn't won anything. He has been to the finals once. Are you serious? This is not about potential, this is about what has actually happened.
My honorable mention did not mention all of them, Pistol Pete was one of my favorites...
Do you have any statistics to back up your statement? Nope! They all belong to MJ.
Championships don't make players great. Karl Malone never won a championship and he was arguably the greatest power forward of all-time. Oscar Robertson only won one championship and he was arguably the greatest player ever. Dr. J only won one NBA championship and he is definitely in the top 20, if not the top 10. Lebron is one of the 10 greatest players of all-time as it stands now. Time will tell if he moves up that list, but I suspect he will. Any list that doesn't have MJ and Oscar at the 1 and 2 spots is a list that is horribly incorrect.
Lets see how long it takes for these "Great Players" to make an impact on their team.
- The Celtics were 29–53 during the 1978–79 season, but with Bird the team improved to 61–21 in the 1979–80 season, posting the league's best regular season record and the eventually lost to the "Great" 76ers in the Eastern Conference Finals... but fret not, they won the NBA Finals the next year.
- The Lakers were 47-35 during the 1978–79 season, but with Magic the team improved to 60–22 in the 1979–80 season, posting the league's second best regular season record to one of the other "Greats"... Bird. This team won the NBA Title.
- The Bulls were 27-55 during the 1983–84 season, but with Jordan the team improved to 38-44 in the 1984-85 season, posting just another of the league's bad records
- Jordan then lead his team to the wonderfully mediocre standings of:
30-52
40-42
50-32 finally! Whew!
No statistics i see..... Shame on you!
Why have you yet to reply or refute this post: http://www.debatepolitics.com/sports-talk/76069-greatest-nba-player-ever.html#post1058832905
Dude it's not that difficult
It's Michael Jordan at #1 and then everyone else
I just went past it and got into other posts/threads and missed it.
Ok, I am not even sure what those stats represent, to be honest. here is the first one:
NBA
Rank Player WS/48
1. Michael Jordan* 0.2505
2. David Robinson* 0.2502
3. Wilt Chamberlain* 0.2480
4. Neil Johnston* 0.2413
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 0.2284
6. Magic Johnson* 0.2249
7. LeBron James 0.2242
8. Tim Duncan 0.2190
9. Manu Ginobili 0.2167
10. Charles Barkley* 0.2163
11. Dirk Nowitzki 0.2137
12. Jerry West* 0.2134
13. Bob Pettit* 0.2128
14. John Stockton* 0.2087
15. Shaquille O'Neal 0.2087
16. Oscar Robertson* 0.2069
17. Karl Malone* 0.2053
18. Larry Bird* 0.2032
19. Yao Ming 0.2004
20. Ed Macauley* 0.1964
You are basing this as why Michael Jordan is number one? It lists Manu Ginobili over Shaq and Larry Bird is rated 18th?
Are you serious? i have no idea what this stat is, but it has nothing to do with greatness, unless you actually think that
Ed Macauley is one of the top 20 players of all time. LOL! Ed Macauley is listed above Bill Russell! ROFL!
Secondly, I have listed TONS OF STATS in this thread. What are you on?
1. NBA Championships
Bill Russell 11
Bob Cousy 10
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 6
Michael Jordan 6
Magic Johnson 5
Kobe Bryant 5
George Mikan 5
Shaquille O'Neal 4
Tim Duncan 4
Tony Parker 4
Larry Bird 3
James Worthy 3
Robert Parish 3
Kevin McHale 3
Hakeem Olajuwon 2
Willis Reed 2
Isiah Thomas 2
Wilt Chamberlain 2
3. NBA Finals Appearances
Bill Russell - 11
Kareem Abdul Jabbar - 10
Bob Cousy - 10
Magic Johnson – 9
Kobe Bryant - 7
Shaquille O'Neal - 6
Wilt Chamberlain - 6
Michael Jordan - 6
Larry Bird - 5
Dr. J - 4
Tim Duncan - 4
Isiah Thomas - 3
Hakeem Olajowan - 3
- The Celtics were 29–53 during the 1978–79 season, but with Bird the team improved to 61–21 in the 1979–80 season, posting the league's best regular season record and the eventually lost to the "Great" 76ers in the Eastern Conference Finals... but fret not, they won the NBA Finals the next year.
- The Lakers were 47-35 during the 1978–79 season, but with Magic the team improved to 60–22 in the 1979–80 season, posting the league's second best regular season record to one of the other "Greats"... Bird. This team won the NBA Title.
- The Bulls were 27-55 during the 1983–84 season, but with Jordan the team improved to 38-44 in the 1984-85 season, posting just another of the league's bad records
- Jordan then lead his team to the wonderfully mediocre standings of:
30-52
40-42
50-32
Top Ten
1. Magic Johnson
2. Larry Bird
3. Bill Russell
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
6. Oscar Robertson
7. Michael Jordan
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Julius Erving
10. Tim Duncan
Close:
Kobe Byant
Moses Malone
Isiah Thomas
Willis Reed
Bill Walton
James Worthy
You listed nothing of statistical relevance, as such a "measure" possesses a plethora of outliers such as Malone and Horry. Instead you used some flawed mix of inductive and deductive reasoning; however it should not at all be confused for statistical analysis. If you are having an issue figuring out the meaning of the said stat, here is the formula page:Calculating Win Shares | Basketball-Reference.com
No comment on the other three? Not the least bit surprised.
That is just ridiculous.
I love when people throw out "NBA Finals Appearances" but never, ever, ever talk about NBA Final Winning Percentage.
"Hey Man, Kobe's been to 7 finals!"
"Hey Man, Magic's been to 9 finals"
"Hey Man, Jordan's only been to 6 Finals"
Know what I see?
"Hey Man, Kobe's lost 3 finals"
"Hey Man, Magic lost 4 finals"
"Hey Man, Jordan's never lost a finals"
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?