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Greatest NBA Player Ever!

Bodhisattva

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Top Ten

1. Magic Johnson
2. Larry Bird
3. Bill Russell

4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
6. Oscar Robertson
7. Michael Jordan
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Julius Erving
10. Tim Duncan


Close:

Kobe Byant
Moses Malone
Isiah Thomas
Willis Reed
Bill Walton
James Worthy
 

Kushinator

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We have been through this a few years back, even Magic and Bird admit that Michael is the greatest player ever. His career PER, and consecutive seasons with PER's above 30 indicate this. Its not even a debate.
 

Bodhisattva

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We have been through this a few years back, even Magic and Bird admit that Michael is the greatest player ever. His career PER, and consecutive seasons with PER's above 30 indicate this. Its not even a debate.
Sure it is a debate.

"We could not have won 70 games playing against 1980's teams."
-Dennis Rodman, starting power forward for the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls

Even Rodman admits that the teams of the 90's were weaker than the teams of the 80's. Bird and Magic also used to say that the only stat that mattered to them was the others, with no mention of Jordan at all.

If you don't want to go around again, especially since I spanked you before... ;)

Tehn stay out of it. Years later, new crop of DPers.
 

Kushinator

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Sure it is a debate.

"We could not have won 70 games playing against 1980's teams."
-Dennis Rodman, starting power forward for the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls

Even Rodman admits that the teams of the 90's were weaker than the teams of the 80's. Bird and Magic also used to say that the only stat that mattered to them was the others, with no mention of Jordan at all.

If you don't want to go around again, especially since I spanked you before... ;)

Tehn stay out of it. Years later, new crop of DPers.
:lamo

First off, you are basing your initial argument on the sentiments of Rodman? Oh that's just too cute.

You spanked yourself Bodi! It is the general consensus among the entire sports spectrum that Michael Jordan was not only the greatest basketball player ever, but the greatest athlete ever. The only ones who disagree are Lakers and Celtics homers. There is no argument, there is no debate, as it ended after the 6th championship.

Do you have any statistics to back up your statement? Nope! They all belong to MJ.
 

Bodhisattva

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:lamo

First off, you are basing your initial argument on the sentiments of Rodman? Oh that's just too cute.

You spanked yourself Bodi! It is the general consensus among the entire sports spectrum that Michael Jordan was not only the greatest basketball player ever, but the greatest athlete ever. The only ones who disagree are Lakers and Celtics homers. There is no argument, there is no debate, as it ended after the 6th championship.

Do you have any statistics to back up your statement? Nope! They all belong to MJ.
I based my stance off of the statistics, not Rodman. I was just using a quote that contradicted your non-quote views of Bird and Magic. Deal with it...

1995-96 NBA: a watered down league

1995-96 Was an expansion season in the NBA. The Toronto Raptors and Vancouver (now Memphis) Grizzlies were added before the season began. A slug of weak college drafts in the 1990's did nothing to counter the addition of four teams at the end of the 1980's and two more in 1995. There were great players scattered in the early 90's such as Shaquille O'Neal, Alonzo Mourning and Grant Hill, but overall there were seldom more than 3 or 4 players in each college draft who were able to provide immediate help to their teams.

1995-96 NBA: A watered down league

No other major sport propagandizes that one particular player is the best ever. Why is Basketball so different? Because David Stern is trying to sell his current game by calling Jordan "unquestionably the best ever". The late Wilt Chamberlain said it best: "If Michael was here right now, I would say to him: When you are so great that the league tries to change the rules in an attempt to stop you then you can claim you are the best ever. Every rule change I have seen during your career has been meant to enhance your game (such as shortened 3 point line, hand checking rules & well defined rules regarding illegal defenses)." Wilt also went on further to discuss how players of his day did not have the luxury of regular National T.V. broadcasts to promote their talents to the public. Modern players have the luxuries of chartered jets, first class hotels, modern sports medicine, fewer games on back-to-back nights, illegal defenses, looser rules governing assists, the 3 point line and superstars getting preferential treatment from referees. 1960's refs freely admit that they let players foul Wilt Chamberlain when he did not have the ball "to help them"defend him. Contrast this with today when superstars are coddled by officials. In spite of all these luxuries afforded to modern players Wilt Chamberlain (who retired 28 years ago) still holds 50 regular season records, many of which are in the untouchable realm. Contrast this with Michael Jordan who in spite of getting more preferential treatment from officials than any other player in history holds a whopping 4 regular season records.

"They are trying to sell today's game, not the game from the 1960's, 70's or 80's."-Wilt Chamberlain on the NBA at 50 celebration in 1996

The NBA's love affair with Michael Jordan

Modern NBA officiating has become a joke. Big market superstars are given special treatment, they are allowed to travel and get away with fouls that the average player gets whistled for. Michael Jordan has been the most prominent beneficiary of this special treatment. Many sports writers insist that Jordan pushed off of Bryon Russell to get room for his last shot against the Utah Jazz in the 1998 NBA Finals. That game had 2 major incidents of blown calls meant to help the Bulls (bogus shot clock violation on a Howard Eisley 3 in second quarter: replays showed the shot ball was 8 feet from the end of Eisley's hand when the shot clock expired. No call on Ron Harper shot clock violation in 3rd quarter, total: 5 point swing to Bulls). Most people did not realize that Scottie Pippen's back was in such bad shape that he was doubtful for a possible game 7 if the Jazz won game 6, and since the Jordan led Bulls had a 1-11 record in playoff games without Scottie Pippen it was imperative that the Bulls end the series in 6.

The NBA's Love Affair with Michael Jordan

1982-83 Philadelphia 76ers vs. 1995-96 Chicago Bulls

In favor of the Bulls:

Bulls Bio:

Players who have won Playoff MVP award: 1 (Jordan)
Players on "50 Greatest" list: 2 (Jordan, Pippen)
Players who have made All Star Team during their career: 3 (Jordan, Pippen, Rodman)
In this match up Dennis Rodman won't get outscored by his man: Marc Iavaroni is a dirty work type of player who will spend most of his time tangling with Rodman for rebounds. If he can't then it will be a free for all with Rodman and Malone battling for rebounds in the paint. Jordan certainly can outgun Andrew Toney in the back court and Ron Harper has a size advantage over Maurice Cheeks.

In favor of the Sixers:

Sixers Bio:

Players who have won Playoff MVP award: 2 (Malone, Erving)
Players on "50 Greatest" list: 2 (Erving, Malone)
Players who have made All Star Team during their career: 5 (Cheeks, Erving, Jones, Malone, Toney)
Moses Malone was a wrecking ball in the 1983 Playoffs. Julius Erving can match the athleticism of Pippen on both ends of the floor. Maurice Cheeks should be able to get the drive & kick out game going with Erving, Toney and Clint Richardson who comes off the bench. Bobby Jones is a defensive stopper who can play either forward spot.

Synopsis

Moses parts the red sea! The Bulls have NO ONE who can slow down or stop Malone in the post or under the boards. Malone dominated Bill Cartwright, Bob Lanier, and Kareem Abdul Jabbar in 1983, he also butchered the three headed center of the Milwaukee Bucks in the 1985 playoffs. The Bulls center position is of the same caliber, if not worse than those Bucks. Moses will overwhelm the Bulls, preventing Rodman from rebounding the Jordan & Pippen missed shots, if Rodman dominates Iavaroni the Sixers can throw the hard working Bobby Jones at him. Jordan will get his points but Pippen will be slowed by Bobby Jones when the Sixers put him at small forward. It is questionable how well Pippen can play offense because he is going to have to stay in Erving's face when he is on defense. Andrew Toney is enough of an outside marksman that he will keep Jordan busy on the defensive end of the floor. Cheeks has a speed advantage he can use on Harper to get into the paint. The Sixers have enough weapons to keep the Bulls from producing the dominance on the perimeter necessary to counter the havoc Moses will wreak in the paint, the Sixers are a better all around team.


1986-87 Lakers vs. 1995-96 Chicago Bulls
1986-87 Lakers vs. 1995-96 Chicago Bulls
 

Arch Enemy

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Michael Jordan...

There is no comparison.

He was not only the best player on the best team of his time, but he won. Kobe Bryant might challenge Jordan at some point, but he's gonna have to win a few more without Shaq.
 

Bodhisattva

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Michael Jordan...

There is no comparison.

He was not only the best player on the best team of his time, but he won. Kobe Bryant might challenge Jordan at some point, but he's gonna have to win a few more without Shaq.
Did you read any of the articles or quotes that I posted? Jesus, people talk about LeBron as being so great and he makes more than Kobe when all is said and done, yet he has only been to the finals once and he lost.

Triple Doubles
Rank Name TD
1. Oscar Robertson 181
2. Magic Johnson 138
3. Jason Kidd 100
4. Wilt Chamberlain 78
5. Larry Bird 59
6. Fat Lever 43
7. John Havlicek 30
8. Grant Hill 29
9. Michael Jordan 28
10. Clyde Drexler 25

Playoffs
Rank Name TD
1. Magic Johnson 30
2. Jason Kidd 11
3. Larry Bird 10
4. Wilt Chamberlain 9
5. Oscar Robertson 8
6. John Havlicek 5
7. Charles Barkley 4
8. Elgin Baylor 4
9. Walt Frazier 4
10. Scottie Pippen 4 :rofl


Magic has more Playoff Triple Doubles than Jordan has Total Triple Doubles?
This is obviously the sign of a more complete player and Magic completely wipes the floor with Jordan.

Bird, Chamberlain and The Big O all destroy Jordan too. Couple that with their other stats listed above and they are starting to really distance themselves from Jordan.

Look at it from this perspective...

Magic Finals Appearances 9X in 12 years 75%
Jordan Finals Appearances 6X in 16 years 38%

Magic NBA Champion 5X in 12 years 42%
Jordan NBA Champion 6X in 16 years 38%

Magic All-NBA 1st Team 9X in 12 years 75%
Jordan All-NBA 1st Team 10X in 16 years 63%

Magic NBA Conference Finals 10X in 12 years 83%
Jordan NBA Conference Finals 8X in 16 years 50%

Magic NBA Finals MVP 3X in 5 wins 60%
Jordan NBA Finals MVP 6X in 6 wins 100%

And Magic did this versus widely accepted NBA "Great" Teams like in the 80's like the Pistons, Celtics and 76ers.

The Supersonics made the Finals ONCE! No sane person would EVER consider this team "Great"...
The Suns made the Finals ONCE! No sane person would EVER consider this team "Great"...
The Trailblazers made the Finals TWICE! They were really, really good, and on the verge of great, but they fell short of great by not winning a single championship.
The Jazz made the Finals TWICE. They were really, really good, and on the verge of great, but they fell short of great by not winning a single championship.
The Lakers were in decline and you know it. Accept it. The Lakers played "Great" teams and the Bulls did not. Not once after they beat the Pistons and got over the "hump".

The Lakers though, they were in the NBA Finals 9X in 12 years. They lost 4X's to commonly accepted "Great" teams.
The Celtics
The 76ers
The Pistons

The Celtics made the Finals FIVE times and WON THREE!
The 76ers made the Finals FOUR times and WON ONE!
The Pistons made the Finals THREE times and WON TWO!

You could almost say that that is 6 more championships that the Lakers should have won, well… had they had the type of competition that the Jordon Bulls had been faced against; that is…

ALL OF THESE TEAMS BEAT OTHER "GREAT" TEAMS.
THEY ARE ALL BETTER THAN THE BULLS.

Don't believe me? Here is a list of the ten greatest teams by chronology…

NBA.com: Top 10 Teams in NBA History

1. 1964-65 Boston Celtics
2. 1966-67 Philadelphia 76ers
3. 1969-70 New York Knicks
4. 1971-72 L.A. Lakers
5. 1982-83 Philadelphia 76ers
6. 1985-86 Boston Celtics
7. 1986-87 L.A. Lakers
8. 1988-89 Detroit Pistons
9. 1991-92 Chicago Bulls
10. 1995-96 Chicago Bulls

All had to contend with each other at the same time, except the Bulls. There is no comparison. Take away those "Great" teams and Magic would have won 9 Titles, been MVP countless times, etc etc.
Same with Bird. Take away the Pistons and 76ers, and Lakers, and he would have won 9 Titles as well.
Isiah would have won 5 or 6.
Dr. J would have 3 or 4.
 

RedAkston

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Let me fix your list for you....

1 - Michael Jordan
2 - Oscar Robertson
3 - Larry Bird
4 - Magic Johnson
5 - Kobe Bryant
6 - Lebron James
7 - Wilt Chamberlain
8 - Pete Maravich
9 - Bill Russell
10 - Jerry West

Some may disagree with my list, but I seriously doubt there is a bigger fan of the game of basketball on this forum. How you can post a top 10 list and 6 "honorable mentions" without having Maravich on that list is beyond me. Lebron - still has plenty of time to move up on that list, but IMO he may go down as the greatest of all-time. His size, strength, speed and desire puts him in a category all his own. Like MJ before him, he has redefined "greatness". I realize that MJ has 6 rings, but he didn't win a single one without a co-star (Scottie Pippen). Lebron hasn't had a co-star with the caliber of a Scottie Pippen. Magic had Worthy and Kareem. Bird had McHale, DJ and Parish. Lebron will most likely go down as the greatest, if not #2.

I will also add that the 80's was the greatest period for the NBA. The Lakers and Celtics of the 80's were the best teams I've ever seen. I'd take the 1986 Celtics and match them up against any team that has won a championship since then. I'd take the 1987 Lakers and match them up against anyone but the 1986 Celtics. The Lakers and Celtics rivalry of the 1980's was unlike anything we will most likely ever see again. Those two teams were absolutely incredible and they played like a team, which is something you don't see much of nowadays because the NBA is all about the "superstar" thanks to Herr Stern. Stern has done a lot for the game, but he has also done a lot to ruin the NBA.
 

Bodhisattva

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Let me fix your list for you....

1 - Michael Jordan
2 - Oscar Robertson
3 - Larry Bird
4 - Magic Johnson
5 - Kobe Bryant
6 - Lebron James
7 - Wilt Chamberlain
8 - Pete Maravich
9 - Bill Russell
10 - Jerry West

Some may disagree with my list, but I seriously doubt there is a bigger fan of the game of basketball on this forum. How you can post a top 10 list and 6 "honorable mentions" without having Maravich on that list is beyond me. Lebron - still has plenty of time to move up on that list, but IMO he may go down as the greatest of all-time. His size, strength, speed and desire puts him in a category all his own. Like MJ before him, he has redefined "greatness". I realize that MJ has 6 rings, but he didn't win a single one without a co-star (Scottie Pippen). Lebron hasn't had a co-star with the caliber of a Scottie Pippen. Magic had Worthy and Kareem. Bird had McHale, DJ and Parish. Lebron will most likely go down as the greatest, if not #2.

I will also add that the 80's was the greatest period for the NBA. The Lakers and Celtics of the 80's were the best teams I've ever seen. I'd take the 1986 Celtics and match them up against any team that has won a championship since then. I'd take the 1987 Lakers and match them up against anyone but the 1986 Celtics. The Lakers and Celtics rivalry of the 1980's was unlike anything we will most likely ever see again. Those two teams were absolutely incredible and they played like a team, which is something you don't see much of nowadays because the NBA is all about the "superstar" thanks to Herr Stern. Stern has done a lot for the game, but he has also done a lot to ruin the NBA.
Sorry, I see LeBron at #6 and have to stop taking the list seriously right there. He hasn't won anything. He has been to the finals once. Are you serious? This is not about potential, this is about what has actually happened.

My honorable mention did not mention all of them, Pistol Pete was one of my favorites...
 

RedAkston

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Sorry, I see LeBron at #6 and have to stop taking the list seriously right there. He hasn't won anything. He has been to the finals once. Are you serious? This is not about potential, this is about what has actually happened.

My honorable mention did not mention all of them, Pistol Pete was one of my favorites...
Championships don't make players great. Karl Malone never won a championship and he was arguably the greatest power forward of all-time. Oscar Robertson only won one championship and he was arguably the greatest player ever. Dr. J only won one NBA championship and he is definitely in the top 20, if not the top 10. Lebron is one of the 10 greatest players of all-time as it stands now. Time will tell if he moves up that list, but I suspect he will. Any list that doesn't have MJ and Oscar at the 1 and 2 spots is a list that is horribly incorrect.
 

Bodhisattva

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Do you have any statistics to back up your statement? Nope! They all belong to MJ.
Lets see how long it takes for these "Great Players" to make an impact on their team.

- The Celtics were 29–53 during the 1978–79 season, but with Bird the team improved to 61–21 in the 1979–80 season, posting the league's best regular season record and the eventually lost to the "Great" 76ers in the Eastern Conference Finals... but fret not, they won the NBA Finals the next year.

- The Lakers were 47-35 during the 1978–79 season, but with Magic the team improved to 60–22 in the 1979–80 season, posting the league's second best regular season record to one of the other "Greats"... Bird. This team won the NBA Title.

- The Bulls were 27-55 during the 1983–84 season, but with Jordan the team improved to 38-44 in the 1984-85 season, posting just another of the league's bad records
- Jordan then lead his team to the wonderfully mediocre standings of:
30-52
40-42
50-32 finally! Whew!
 

Bodhisattva

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Championships don't make players great. Karl Malone never won a championship and he was arguably the greatest power forward of all-time. Oscar Robertson only won one championship and he was arguably the greatest player ever. Dr. J only won one NBA championship and he is definitely in the top 20, if not the top 10. Lebron is one of the 10 greatest players of all-time as it stands now. Time will tell if he moves up that list, but I suspect he will. Any list that doesn't have MJ and Oscar at the 1 and 2 spots is a list that is horribly incorrect.
Whoever said that championships make players great? *looks around*

You have it backwards... great players win championships.

At least two things make great players; championships and championships over other great championship winning players. Jordans win over Payton is far less significant than Magic's win over Bird, wouldn't you agree?

Jordan beat:
Malone
Payton
Barkley
Magic
Shaq in his second year?

Magic beat:
Bird twice
Dr J twice
I. Thomas
Drexler

Great players are much more than individual statistics. Malone was arguably a great player, so was Barkley and Ewing, but they were not good enough to win the NBA Title now, were they?

1. NBA Championships

Bill Russell 11
Bob Cousy 10

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 6
Michael Jordan 6
Magic Johnson 5
Kobe Bryant 5
George Mikan 5
Shaquille O'Neal 4

Tim Duncan 4
Tony Parker 4
Larry Bird 3
James Worthy 3
Robert Parish 3
Kevin McHale 3

Hakeem Olajuwon 2
Willis Reed 2
Isiah Thomas 2
Wilt Chamberlain 2

- Russell Dominates amongst the "GREAT" Contenders.
- Kareem and Jordan tied for second w/ Magic only one behind. Jordan isn't first in this catagory.
- Larry Bird has 3

2. NBA Championships over other Great NBA Teams

Magic Johnson - 5 defeated Celtics twice, 76ers twice and the Pistons once
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 5 defeated Celtics twice, 76ers twice and the Pistons once
Bill Russell - 4
Larry Bird - 1 defeated the Lakers once
Dr. J. - 1
Isiah Thomas – 1 defeated the Lakers once
Michael Jordan - 1 defeated the Lakers once
Wilt Chamberlain - 1

- Magic and Kareem each have 5 Titles over other "Great Teams"
- Russell is close with 4, but with his 11 Championships total, he is obviously equal to those two if not passing them.
- Bird, Jordan, Chamberlain, Dr. J and Thomas all sit with.... only 1 Title over another "Great Team"? For Jordan, that is not very impressive considering that he played in a generation that did not include any “Great” teams besides the aging LA Lakers.

This is one of the most important factors to determining the "Greatness" of a player. Can they beat other "Great" players? Obviously Magic, Kareem and Russell dominated other "Great" Players. Jordan beat only one, Magic, at the end of his career.

3. NBA Finals Appearances

Bill Russell - 11
Kareem Abdul Jabbar - 10
Bob Cousy - 10
Magic Johnson – 9
Kobe Bryant - 7
Shaquille O'Neal - 6

Wilt Chamberlain - 6
Michael Jordan - 6
Larry Bird - 5
Dr. J - 4
Tim Duncan - 4
Isiah Thomas - 3
Hakeem Olajowan - 3

- Russell, Kareem, and Magic are far and beyond their competition.
- Jordan can't win this stat either; he is behind Kobe and just tied with Shaq and Wilt with Bird only one behind.
 

Kushinator

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Lets see how long it takes for these "Great Players" to make an impact on their team.

- The Celtics were 29–53 during the 1978–79 season, but with Bird the team improved to 61–21 in the 1979–80 season, posting the league's best regular season record and the eventually lost to the "Great" 76ers in the Eastern Conference Finals... but fret not, they won the NBA Finals the next year.

- The Lakers were 47-35 during the 1978–79 season, but with Magic the team improved to 60–22 in the 1979–80 season, posting the league's second best regular season record to one of the other "Greats"... Bird. This team won the NBA Title.

- The Bulls were 27-55 during the 1983–84 season, but with Jordan the team improved to 38-44 in the 1984-85 season, posting just another of the league's bad records
- Jordan then lead his team to the wonderfully mediocre standings of:
30-52
40-42
50-32 finally! Whew!
No statistics i see..... Shame on you!

Why have you yet to reply or refute this post: http://www.debatepolitics.com/sports-talk/76069-greatest-nba-player-ever.html#post1058832905
 

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Dude it's not that difficult

It's Michael Jordan at #1 and then everyone else
 

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No statistics i see..... Shame on you!

Why have you yet to reply or refute this post: http://www.debatepolitics.com/sports-talk/76069-greatest-nba-player-ever.html#post1058832905
I just went past it and got into other posts/threads and missed it.

Ok, I am not even sure what those stats represent, to be honest. here is the first one:

NBA
Rank Player WS/48
1. Michael Jordan* 0.2505
2. David Robinson* 0.2502
3. Wilt Chamberlain* 0.2480
4. Neil Johnston* 0.2413
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 0.2284
6. Magic Johnson* 0.2249
7. LeBron James 0.2242
8. Tim Duncan 0.2190
9. Manu Ginobili 0.2167
10. Charles Barkley* 0.2163
11. Dirk Nowitzki 0.2137
12. Jerry West* 0.2134
13. Bob Pettit* 0.2128
14. John Stockton* 0.2087
15. Shaquille O'Neal 0.2087
16. Oscar Robertson* 0.2069
17. Karl Malone* 0.2053
18. Larry Bird* 0.2032
19. Yao Ming 0.2004
20. Ed Macauley* 0.1964

You are basing this as why Michael Jordan is number one? It lists Manu Ginobili over Shaq and Larry Bird is rated 18th?
Are you serious? i have no idea what this stat is, but it has nothing to do with greatness, unless you actually think that
Ed Macauley is one of the top 20 players of all time. LOL! Ed Macauley is listed above Bill Russell! ROFL! :)

Secondly, I have listed TONS OF STATS in this thread. What are you on?

1. NBA Championships

Bill Russell 11
Bob Cousy 10
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 6
Michael Jordan 6
Magic Johnson 5
Kobe Bryant 5
George Mikan 5
Shaquille O'Neal 4
Tim Duncan 4
Tony Parker 4
Larry Bird 3
James Worthy 3
Robert Parish 3
Kevin McHale 3
Hakeem Olajuwon 2
Willis Reed 2
Isiah Thomas 2
Wilt Chamberlain 2


3. NBA Finals Appearances

Bill Russell - 11
Kareem Abdul Jabbar - 10
Bob Cousy - 10
Magic Johnson – 9
Kobe Bryant - 7
Shaquille O'Neal - 6
Wilt Chamberlain - 6
Michael Jordan - 6
Larry Bird - 5
Dr. J - 4
Tim Duncan - 4
Isiah Thomas - 3
Hakeem Olajowan - 3

- The Celtics were 29–53 during the 1978–79 season, but with Bird the team improved to 61–21 in the 1979–80 season, posting the league's best regular season record and the eventually lost to the "Great" 76ers in the Eastern Conference Finals... but fret not, they won the NBA Finals the next year.

- The Lakers were 47-35 during the 1978–79 season, but with Magic the team improved to 60–22 in the 1979–80 season, posting the league's second best regular season record to one of the other "Greats"... Bird. This team won the NBA Title.

- The Bulls were 27-55 during the 1983–84 season, but with Jordan the team improved to 38-44 in the 1984-85 season, posting just another of the league's bad records
- Jordan then lead his team to the wonderfully mediocre standings of:
30-52
40-42
50-32
 

Bodhisattva

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Dude it's not that difficult

It's Michael Jordan at #1 and then everyone else
I have at least made a rational and statistics based argument, but thanks for your opinion... dude. :)
 

Kushinator

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I just went past it and got into other posts/threads and missed it.

Ok, I am not even sure what those stats represent, to be honest. here is the first one:

NBA
Rank Player WS/48
1. Michael Jordan* 0.2505
2. David Robinson* 0.2502
3. Wilt Chamberlain* 0.2480
4. Neil Johnston* 0.2413
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 0.2284
6. Magic Johnson* 0.2249
7. LeBron James 0.2242
8. Tim Duncan 0.2190
9. Manu Ginobili 0.2167
10. Charles Barkley* 0.2163
11. Dirk Nowitzki 0.2137
12. Jerry West* 0.2134
13. Bob Pettit* 0.2128
14. John Stockton* 0.2087
15. Shaquille O'Neal 0.2087
16. Oscar Robertson* 0.2069
17. Karl Malone* 0.2053
18. Larry Bird* 0.2032
19. Yao Ming 0.2004
20. Ed Macauley* 0.1964

You are basing this as why Michael Jordan is number one? It lists Manu Ginobili over Shaq and Larry Bird is rated 18th?
Are you serious? i have no idea what this stat is, but it has nothing to do with greatness, unless you actually think that
Ed Macauley is one of the top 20 players of all time. LOL! Ed Macauley is listed above Bill Russell! ROFL! :)

Secondly, I have listed TONS OF STATS in this thread. What are you on?

1. NBA Championships

Bill Russell 11
Bob Cousy 10
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 6
Michael Jordan 6
Magic Johnson 5
Kobe Bryant 5
George Mikan 5
Shaquille O'Neal 4
Tim Duncan 4
Tony Parker 4
Larry Bird 3
James Worthy 3
Robert Parish 3
Kevin McHale 3
Hakeem Olajuwon 2
Willis Reed 2
Isiah Thomas 2
Wilt Chamberlain 2


3. NBA Finals Appearances

Bill Russell - 11
Kareem Abdul Jabbar - 10
Bob Cousy - 10
Magic Johnson – 9
Kobe Bryant - 7
Shaquille O'Neal - 6
Wilt Chamberlain - 6
Michael Jordan - 6
Larry Bird - 5
Dr. J - 4
Tim Duncan - 4
Isiah Thomas - 3
Hakeem Olajowan - 3

- The Celtics were 29–53 during the 1978–79 season, but with Bird the team improved to 61–21 in the 1979–80 season, posting the league's best regular season record and the eventually lost to the "Great" 76ers in the Eastern Conference Finals... but fret not, they won the NBA Finals the next year.

- The Lakers were 47-35 during the 1978–79 season, but with Magic the team improved to 60–22 in the 1979–80 season, posting the league's second best regular season record to one of the other "Greats"... Bird. This team won the NBA Title.

- The Bulls were 27-55 during the 1983–84 season, but with Jordan the team improved to 38-44 in the 1984-85 season, posting just another of the league's bad records
- Jordan then lead his team to the wonderfully mediocre standings of:
30-52
40-42
50-32
You listed nothing of statistical relevance, as such a "measure" possesses a plethora of outliers such as Malone and Horry. Instead you used some flawed mix of inductive and deductive reasoning; however it should not at all be confused for statistical analysis. If you are having an issue figuring out the meaning of the said stat, here is the formula page:Calculating Win Shares | Basketball-Reference.com

No comment on the other three? Not the least bit surprised.
 
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Top Ten

1. Magic Johnson
2. Larry Bird
3. Bill Russell

4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
6. Oscar Robertson
7. Michael Jordan
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Julius Erving
10. Tim Duncan


Close:

Kobe Byant
Moses Malone
Isiah Thomas
Willis Reed
Bill Walton
James Worthy
That is just ridiculous.
 

Zyphlin

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I love when people throw out "NBA Finals Appearances" but never, ever, ever talk about NBA Final Winning Percentage.

"Hey Man, Kobe's been to 7 finals!"

"Hey Man, Magic's been to 9 finals"

"Hey Man, Jordan's only been to 6 Finals"

Know what I see?

"Hey Man, Kobe's lost 3 finals"

"Hey Man, Magic lost 4 finals"

"Hey Man, Jordan's never lost a finals"
 

Zyphlin

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Also, the talk of competition from different ones bothers me.

Jordan played against 18 of the top 50 plays of all time. 19 if you put Kobe into that which many do now.
Magic played against 21. Three more is hardly a dearth.

Finals?

Magic won against Erving, Bird, McHale, Parish, and Thomas along with Daly with regards to the top 10 coaches.

Jordan won against Johnson, Worthy, Drexler, Barkley, Malone, and Stockton

Six to Six, and that's counting a coach for magic.

Conference finals?

Magic beat George Gervin

Jordan beat Thomas, Ewing, and O'neal along with Daily, Wilkins, and Riley as coaches.

I'm sorry, but this entire myth that Jordan didn't play against quality competition is bogus.
 

Bodhisattva

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You listed nothing of statistical relevance, as such a "measure" possesses a plethora of outliers such as Malone and Horry. Instead you used some flawed mix of inductive and deductive reasoning; however it should not at all be confused for statistical analysis. If you are having an issue figuring out the meaning of the said stat, here is the formula page:Calculating Win Shares | Basketball-Reference.com

No comment on the other three? Not the least bit surprised.
Individual stats measure the best to you then... ok.
Regarding your snide remark about the rest... take a hike. Grow up boy.
 
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Bodhisattva

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I love when people throw out "NBA Finals Appearances" but never, ever, ever talk about NBA Final Winning Percentage.

"Hey Man, Kobe's been to 7 finals!"

"Hey Man, Magic's been to 9 finals"

"Hey Man, Jordan's only been to 6 Finals"

Know what I see?

"Hey Man, Kobe's lost 3 finals"

"Hey Man, Magic lost 4 finals"

"Hey Man, Jordan's never lost a finals"
Michael is better than Shaq or Kobe...

Michael didn't have to face Bird or Dr J, did he.

That is what I see and every reason why the stat is absolutely relevant.
 

Zyphlin

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Nope.

He just had to face Magic, Worthy, Drexler, Malone, Stockton, Barkley.

wait, crap, I'm messing up your argument...

um, yeah..umm...jordan...he um...faced scrubs, all the time...yeah.

:roll:
 
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