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Gov. Mike Pence: Change RFRA law to make it clear discrimination won't be allowed

Henrin said:
How about the right to exclusiveness, how about the right to decide who will get your labor, service, property, association, and contract. How about all of those rights I just mentioned.
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You know, there is a practical means there.

Charge more. In computers I used to have the ATT, a levy of 5% to 50% I would impose because I could. It stood for asshole tolerance tax" and you could decide to pay it and make me rich, or go somewhere else.

It is astonishing how many assholes prefer to pay the tax.

It will all be over once this whole getting married thingy is no longer new. As it is, anyone daring to be married in the current US climate is a "vanguard" and deserving, they are certain, of more than 15 minutes of fame, after all they are two and gay and getting married and there's this cake maker who we know we can score off......

That will all go away as it has here since ssm was legalized here 15 years ago. Then the bitch will be about whether "they" can adopt kids and I will be able to bitch when the hostile lesbian refuses me my deluxe cake.....
 

Everyone ignored it because it was a really poor analogy. No one is forcing the actress from seeking working the the "Adult film company". She can refuse to work because he need not apply with them in the first place.

As far as your first part here. There is no violation of their freedom of religion rights. They are free to practice their religion. The government is not saying they are not allowed to worship.
What they can't do...and what it appears that you are trying to do...is use their religion as a shield to practice their bigotry and discrimination. You can't claim that your religion requires you to practice bigotry and therefore you are above the law.
 
Hicup said:
Actually yes I do, and you would lose, in fact you wouldn't even get to a trial.

Tim-
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When you open up a business to the public, you have an obligation to serve the public. You don't get to pick and choose which members of the public you serve. If that was the case, restaurants and hotels in the South would still be refusing to serve blacks.
 

But I only want to serve a portion of the public. What law does not permit this? I ask again please show me the law that does not allow me to do exactly that?

Tim-
 
Hicup said:
Actually yes I do, and you would lose, in fact you wouldn't even get to a trial.

Tim-
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Sorry...but you are wrong. If that were remotely true...why couldn't the baker or the florist simply put up a sign that says "I only do business with Christians" or "I only do business with Heterosexuals"...or better yet "I only do business with conservatives"....and then when the gay couple comes in says "I'm sorry...but if you believe in gay marriage you are obviously not conservative and I only do business with conservatives so therefore....have a nice day". See....sorry Tim....doesn't work that way.
 
Hicup said:
But I only want to serve a portion of the public. What law does not permit this? I ask again please show me the law that does not allow me to do exactly that?

Tim-
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Well there's that annoying 1964 Civil Rights Act.
 

I know some gay conservatives actually, so that wouldn't work.

What is to stop me from opening a business that ONLY caters to a specific demographic? Why MUST the business be public at all? I can open a store on any busy street and what law says that this is now a public business?

Tim-
 
Wiggen said:
Well there's that annoying 1964 Civil Rights Act.
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political ideology isn't a protected right, being black or male or female is, so no, sorry that does not answer my question.

Tim-
 

Sure it would. If your suggestion to get around the law were in fact possible...the bigoted florist or baker could say "Anyone who believes in gay marriage is not a conservative...even if you claim to be...it is clear to me that you aren't. So since I only do business with conservatives, I refusing to do business with you....have a nice day". See. It doesn't work that way. Props for at least attempting to be creative though.
 

You CAN cater to a specific demographic...but you can't refuse patronage to that demographic. For instance. You can open a shop selling Christian books, jewelry, etc. But if a Muslim or a Jew come in and want to purchase something you can't deny them the right.

You can open a shop that sells primarily African-American hair products. But if an Asian woman comes inside and wants to purchase something...you cannot deny them the right.

You can open a gay pride shop and sell rainbow flags and bumper stickers and gay themed t-shirts and gay books...but if a heterosexual comes inside and wants to purchase something...you cannot deny them that right.

Opening a business does not entitle you to write your own rules.
 
Tim, you cannot open a store on a busy street without getting the public approval to do so. They're called zoning laws. Lol.
 
Wiggen said:
When you open up a business to the public, you have an obligation to serve the public. You don't get to pick and choose which members of the public you serve.
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Unconvincing argument is unconvincing.

If that was the case, restaurants and hotels in the South would still be refusing to serve blacks.
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I would like to see you support that claim.
 



Who was denied service that was freely given to others? :roll:




"Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll
 

No no no. She's a contract employee holding herself out to the public and this customer really wants her to do the job. It is against her values and you recognize that, but you won't recognize the others. I wonder why that is? I know, I just like playing coy.
 
Said the florists, who are now bankrupt on account of their settlements for violating public accommodation laws.
 
brothern said:
Said the florists who are now bankrupt on account of their settlements.
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Doesn't mean the states argument was convincing. :shrug:

The argument that someone must serve others is just not terribly convincing, sorry.
 

Really? Are you free to run background checks on potential tenants and exclude them based on credit reports or prior criminal history? Is that not discrimination? Are you free to discriminate based on whether or not they have children? Is a retirement community able to discriminate based on age? Are womens gyms able to discriminate based on gender?

Discrimination occurs every day.
 

You have a fundamentally flawed concept of how public accommodation laws work. You're trying to paint this in some kind of black and white universe where either every religious belief must be respected or nobody is allowed to follow any religious belief. I'm actually having a hard time describing your problem, because you are so far off the mark that you aren't even in the same universe as public accommodation laws.

An actress is an employee, not a customer. She can choose not to work for a porn company. There's no problem with that.

The company, on the other hand, can't refuse to sell her porn because she's a woman. Or because she's Jewish. Or latino. Similarly, the company cannot refuse to hire her because she's Jewish, or latino, or a woman. (although porn isn't a great example, because it would fall under the Bona Fide Occupational Qualification exemption. A female role, whether in adult films or the regular kind, needs to be played by a female so the business can in fact refuse to hire men for that particular position. get it. position?)
 
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Please explain how being gay is analagous to being a credit risk and/or a having criminal history. I am entirely willing to follow you into Wonderland. Lets go.
 

Oh look, another one who thinks the world is black and white.

Public accommodation laws protect race, gender, religion, and in many states sexuality. That's it. Are you discriminating on the basis of one of those characteristics? if so, you're in trouble. Any other characteristic? Go for it. You can kick someone out of your business for having red hair. That's legal. Enjoy.

Women's gyms tend to fall under exemptions based on privacy, wherein the gym is treated like a locker room or bathroom. Although I assume this varies by state.
 
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Amadeus said:
Please explain how being gay is analagous to being a credit risk and/or a having criminal history. I am entirely willing to follow you into Wonderland. Lets go.
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Discrimination occurs every day. That point was very clear. Let me know if you struggle with big words.
 
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