The battle flag WAS RESURRECTED by the Dixiecrats and the KKK in the late 40's-60's as a symbol of White dominance to counter civil rights actions.
If the Union was so fundamentally opposed to slavery why did they let it persist for nearly 80 years ?
The Stars and Stripes ( Northern Flag ) and legalised slavery co-existed allot longer than the Confederate flag and slavery did.
This is such a non issue.
Something tells me there are more important issues that need to be addressed especially in inner city areas.
Alarming Surge In Murders And Shootings In Baltimore « CBS Baltimore
So you are equally in favor of eliminating several state flags, the US Flag, and many others that by some are seen as banners of oppression because some have abused and misused them?I don't know what you mean by that.
I certainly reject the racist part of that heritage, as do all decent Southerners in 2015. But I don't pretend it didn't happen or was reserved for a few bad apples. I'd have to willfully ignore the entire history of this region to believe that. What I also acknowledge is people change and regions change and where I live is not the same place as it was in 1950 or 1960. So why keep a symbol of that era and proudly fly it on the grounds of the State Capitol?
That some see it as a racist symbol or some use it as a racist symbol is irrelevant.I didn't say it was "created" for that purpose. What I said was it enjoyed a massive resurgence in popularity during the period of bitter battles over civil rights and Jim Crow laws, ultimately struck down by Congress and the Courts over the vehement objections of white Southerners.
And, again, that flag was first raised on the Capitol in 1961 as SC and the rest of the South was fighting to maintain Jim Crow and white supremacy, and it stayed there for 37 years before it was moved to its current location. It's part of history. If you think that history is wrong, tell me where.
So you are equally in favor of eliminating several state flags, the US Flag, and many others that by some are seen as banners of oppression because some have abused and misused them?
Dood...lets be blunt. I dont give a **** about your 'goalpost'. If we are being honest I barely consider a word you say. This issue isnt about 'South Carolina'. This is just another 'cause'...a celebratory orgy of race and racism. Personally...I dont care what South Carolina does or doesnt do...I'm not a citizen there. If they want to take it down they should. They just shouldnt accept a bunch of bitter angry narrow minded hate filled cause driven assholes from Washington DC's opinions as their reason for taking it down.I guess you don't want to talk about S.C. and their history with the flag in question because the history is so clear, so you're moving the goal posts to some other unidentified flags seen by unidentified persons as banners of oppression because "some" (not sure who they are..) "abused and misused" them in some unidentified way.
If you want to be specific, then by all means we can shift the discussion to something else entirely! But maybe its best if we stick to this topic, at least on this thread.
That some see it as a racist symbol or some use it as a racist symbol is irrelevant.
Do you believe that everyone that disagrees with you about flying the flag is a racist?
Beautiful. Common ground. People can disagree about this and still not be racist. Phew.Of course the history of the flag is relevant. And it wasn't some vague "some" who used it as a racist symbol - this was the elected officials of the State of S.C. who rose that flag over their capitol in defiance of the Feds pushing for civil rights for blacks.
No, if I thought that I'd say that. It's a ridiculous notion.
Dood...lets be blunt. I dont give a **** about your 'goalpost'. If we are being honest I barely consider a word you say. This issue isnt about 'South Carolina'. This is just another 'cause'...a celebratory orgy of race and racism. Personally...I dont care what South Carolina does or doesnt do...I'm not a citizen there. If they want to take it down they should. They just shouldnt accept a bunch of bitter angry narrow minded hate filled cause driven assholes fro Washington DC's opinions as their reason for taking it down.
Is everyone that disagrees with you about the flag racist? Yes or no.
LOL, more shifting goal posts.
And you're repeatedly posting in a thread about a subject that is a 'non-issue'........... :roll:
Is every Californian a racist hate mongering bigot because California interred thousands of Japanese people against their will? Is every American a racist because some racist groups gather under the starts and stripes? Was every German citizen a murderous nazi scumbag?
For that matter...wasnt every British subject a 'traitor' when they rebelled against the crown to form the United States?
You are slanted by your own hatred and bigotry.
No, thats not shifting goal post, thats adding perspective.
Which is in short supply for skne reason.
And why do I post in a thread about a non issue ? Again, to add perspective and to expose the hypocrisy of those who want to ban a flag.
Most in the south didnt fight the war to defend slavery. They fought the war top reject dominance of the north. Right, wrong, or indifferent most of their motives then are no different than the states today that insist on their independence and autonomy from an oppressive federal government.Uhh, the Confederacy was created by treason. The confederate flag represents that treason. California was. It founded on Japanese internment.
And yes, everyone rebelling against Britain was a traitor to the crown. Are you saying equal justification existed for the confederacy? Fighting a war to maintain slavery was equivalent to the American Revolution?
I did something very unusual for me, NIMBY...I liked a post from you.
But I just want you to be aware that, while I basically agree with your post...especially your last sentence...I am still aware that, even though that last sentence is aimed at both sides of the political spectrum, you took a shot at the right in your first sentence and somehow neglected to take a similar shot at the left.
Of course the history of the flag is relevant. And it wasn't some vague "some" who used it as a racist symbol - this was the elected officials of the State of S.C. who rose that flag over their capitol in defiance of the Feds pushing for civil rights for blacks.
Most in the south didnt fight the war to defend slavery. They fought the war top reject dominance of the north. Right, wrong, or indifferent most of their motives then are no different than the states today that insist on their independence and autonomy from an oppressive federal government.
To them, their cause was as noble and justified as the patriot 'traitors' that rebelled against the crown.
And California certainly has a fairly strong tradition of oppression of Asian people. Is that their lasting legacy?
Shall we judge all Californians on their racism and oppression?
I've gotten more even-handed with my bashing of each side lately, but acknowledge your last statement.
I simply don't see the same even-handed posting from the far-right GOP conservatives on this board.
When I do bash my own side, and there's plenty to bash, GOPs just move the goal posts.
When I see cons use inner-city crime as a reason not to have gun control, I present a plan.
It's called "targeted martial law" in which "rights" of criminals are suspended to go in and sweep high-crime areas with zero advance notice.
I would use roving bands of Special Forces drawn from any number of police units--National Guards, State Police, City Police, US Soldiers.
This is how a mod/con DEM thinks when he's pissed off--I could give a **** about the Bill of Rights under the extraordinary crime conditions we have.
Obama should never have said the "******" word in a public interview.
He should have said the "n-word".
He changed the focus to him as the messenger and created more division.
Obama and Clinton should have waited to bring up guns--knowing full well the discussion would get divisive right away.
Saying that nothing would get done in DC on guns is true--but they should have waited until well after the burials.
My #1 concern remains the divisiveness WITHIN the GOP in DC which continues to grind just about all legislation to a halt.
I just saw where Rep. Meadows was stripped of his co-chair gavel, which has the Freedom Caucus up in arms.
Also, the conservative Club for Growth is running ads against their own GOPs who support the Ex-Im bank.
I could list another dozen examples of GOP division and indecisiveness preventing them from governing as you know.
This is why it's difficult for me to be even-handed with my criticism of both sides .
I believe it is a 2/3rds majority. My question is what is the penalty for breaking the law?
The state's rights/tenth amendment caused the civil war.
Today, it is just a flimsy excuse for GOPs to rail on the fed and now hide behind Gov. Haley's skirt.
Since you've spoken about dominance from the North,
don't you find it odd that the "North" began the rebellion against the crown while the South was quite close to the crown,
from the American Revolution all the way through the civil war?
I think it's high time that each state does have a "discussion" on their racist and oppressive past as part of their State History class .
This makes me very pleased. I think finally, and I mean finally, the history of the Confederate Flag on public property is coming to an end. The next thing to do is for the President to stop sending memorial bouquets to the Confederate war memorial at Arlington. That will happen in time. Probably within the next 2-3 administrations.
We should also ignore our WWII dead in the cemeteries of Europe considering how many innocent civilians we kill over there.
No State can refuse or Government in general can refuse the right of the people to fly a flag on public grounds.
Must be nice living in the 21st century before Karl Marx.
They fought for their own reasons, doesn't mean they have to agree with the State reasoning. Just like today in current wars.
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