GOP to Launch a New Assault on Obamacare, Planned Parenthood

[Ockham]

You want to talk about propaganda? They did conduct an investigation, hell, they shouldn't have bothered, their is no reason to, their is no evidence PP is doing anything wrong.

Sorry can you link the actual investigation findings then?

 

[David_N]

It's okay. I appreciate your honesty and admitting they didn't investigate anything.

They did though, they literally did. It may not be on the scale you want, but that's ok, PP is innocent, their is no evidence that should even lead to an investigation in the first place.

 

[NonoBadDog]

You find it funny, Mr. T finds "ironic" and I find it payback that the Republicans would follow the rules as laid out by Harry Reid. When you turn a vengeful **** of an asshole like that loose on your opponents, its only a matter of time before they get to hit back. It's like hockey, you cross check me, I slash you, you elbow me, I put you through the boards.

How hard do you want it?

Harry Reid turned that show into a bloodbath. I am no Republican and certainly no conservative, but they every have ****ing right in the world to make life as miserable as possible for every stinking Democrat who followed Reid. He dropped the gloves, now it's their time to bleed. So shut up, quit whining about "irony" and take it with the same grace the Republicans did.

Learn to play nice and it won't have to happen

You Bastard!!! I was going to use that to refute whatever lame argument MrT was going to throw out there. Maybe he will post an answer before he reads this post.

I totally agree, however, one day I would hope they lock the rules in cement rather than play legal games with the procedures. Maybe that would reduce the opportunity to play dirty. They will never play nice and if they do it won't last long.

 

[eohrnberger]

Planned Parenthood and Obamacare are probably the two things the GOP hates most. House Republicans are targeting both this week with an obscure procedural move that could finally advance opposition bills to President Barack Obama's desk.

The procedure is called budget reconciliation, and legislation advanced that way cannot be filibustered in the Senate, is subject only to limited amendments and needs only simple majority votes to pass, according to House and Senate rules.

GOP To Launch New Assault On Obamacare, Planned Parenthood

It would then be up to Obama to veto the measures, which he would be all but certain to do. But the process would move two cherished GOP goals through the Senate, pushing them further than they've ever gotten before.

Ahem. Point of fact here.

Reconciliation on a bill is standard procedure, and not 'an obscure procedural move'. If you want a truly 'an obscure procedural move', check into how an unrelated bill got started in the house, was gutted, replaced in it's entirety with an amendment by the Senate and ObamaCare shoveled into the bill instead, this because the house has to originate spending bills (oh wait, it's a tax instead - :roll: - yeah, when it needs to be). Now THAT is an obscure procedural move, and was executed by the Harry Reid controlled Senate.

So yes, that characterization that ObamaCare was shoved down the throats of the nation, is most accurate. This? Not so much.

I find it ironic that Republicans are relying on the same procedural process used to pass Obamacare (a tactic that they denounced as "unconstitutional" and "forcing it down our throats") to try and defund Obamacare.

I also hope that the conservatives in the House and Senate (and in the general public) can feel good about FINALLY getting something done...by passing a pointless piece of legislation and making Obama go through the STRENUOUS process of signing along the Veto line.

No, it most certainly IS NOT the same procedural process as was used by the Democrats for ObamaCare, and even if it were, good for the goose, good for the gander.

You find it funny, Mr. T finds "ironic" and I find it payback that the Republicans would follow the rules as laid out by Harry Reid. When you turn a vengeful **** of an asshole like that loose on your opponents, its only a matter of time before they get to hit back. It's like hockey, you cross check me, I slash you, you elbow me, I put you through the boards.

How hard do you want it?

Harry Reid turned that show into a bloodbath. I am no Republican and certainly no conservative, but they every have ****ing right in the world to make life as miserable as possible for every stinking Democrat who followed Reid. He dropped the gloves, now it's their time to bleed. So shut up, quit whining about "irony" and take it with the same grace the Republicans did.

Learn to play nice and it won't have to happen

Indeed. The damage that Reid, Obama and Pelosi have done to the institution of congress hasn't even been discussed or measured yet.

 

[Mycroft]

All of these PP investigations are worse than useless because they are held up as "proof" that PP hasn't done anything wrong.

Lets say, hypothetically, Colorado legal marijuana growers are accused of breaking State laws or regulations. So...what do we do? Do we investigate those growers? No... We'll investigate WASHINGTON legal marijuana growers...find out those guys aren't breaking any WA laws or regulations...and then say ALL marijuana growers are okay.

That's what people are doing when they talk about PA, ID, etc, investigating their local PP's and finding nothing wrong.

 

[David_N]

All of these PP investigations are worse than useless because they are held up as "proof" that PP hasn't done anything wrong.

Lets say, hypothetically, Colorado legal marijuana growers are accused of breaking State laws or regulations. So...what do we do? Do we investigate those growers? No... We'll investigate WASHINGTON legal marijuana growers...find out those guys aren't breaking any WA laws or regulations...and then say ALL marijuana growers are okay.

That's what people are doing when they talk about PA, ID, etc, investigating their local PP's and finding nothing wrong.

PP has done nothing wrong, they shouldn't be investigated anyway. No evidence.

 

[Mycroft]

PP has done nothing wrong, they shouldn't be investigated anyway. No evidence.

Actually, there is plenty of evidence...multiple videos.

 

[Chomsky]

Planned Parenthood and Obamacare are probably the two things the GOP hates most. House Republicans are targeting both this week with an obscure procedural move that could finally advance opposition bills to President Barack Obama's desk.

The procedure is called budget reconciliation, and legislation advanced that way cannot be filibustered in the Senate, is subject only to limited amendments and needs only simple majority votes to pass, according to House and Senate rules.

GOP To Launch New Assault On Obamacare, Planned Parenthood

It would then be up to Obama to veto the measures, which he would be all but certain to do. But the process would move two cherished GOP goals through the Senate, pushing them further than they've ever gotten before.

This strikes me as a sensationalist headline.

An "assault" that is silenced with the signature from a pen?

It strikes me more as busywork or grandstanding.

So, the pent-up GOP frustration is at such depth, that getting a bill to the President for a sure veto is some sort of progress or a 'win'? The way it's been going for them lately, I suspect so. Bang the drum.

Then there's Mr. Trump unveiling and talking an amazing array of ideas, plans, and promises, and I suspect (irregardless of the possibility to deliver) it sounds pretty good to the average Republican, compared to more 'bang the drum'.

 

[AGENT J]

LMAO what a complete waste of time . . .

if true these are two things that do not need to be in any platform for a running president and will actually help them LOSE if they make it a major part of thier platform.

I most certainly do no agree with all the parts of the ACA but fighting the ACA is stupid and history proves that. Saying it needs "repealed" is even more retarded and is never going to happen. What a HUGE waste of time that would be, what a waste of money and disaster it would be screwing over so many people already on it/benefiting from it. Its never gonna happen its a pipe dream. Lastly werent there studies done on it and didnt the vast majority of people on the right agree with alike 80% of it? why scrap it thats beyond dumb, tweak etc do what ever is needed to improve it but scrapping it is a joke and worthless idea. Its just a sound bite to cater to extremists cause they make the most noise.

As for PP, that also isnt going anywhere and is also a Very stupid battle that will only hurt people and not help them. There are around 700 of them in the country and many dont even offer abortion services LMAO Theres like 36 in my state and i think 11 of them offer abortion services less than 33%

As far as PP breaking any laws, well theres ZERO evidence of that right now and if any turns up i fully support prosecution of those individuals that broke the law, if it goes further than prosecution of certain clinics etc. :shrug:

 

[Mycroft]

The way I see it, there are two issues involving PP:

1. The videos that suggest improprieties in the way they handle fetal tissue donations and the fees they charge for such handling.

2. Whether the federal government should be giving PP half a billion dollars a year so they can provide their services.

The first issue would be better handled, in-house, by PP. They should set rules for all of their clinics and employees that would eliminate the kinds of things we've seen in those videos. The federal government need not get involved. On the other hand, if they won't deal with their organization's problems, perhaps the courts can deal with it.

The second issue IS in the purview of the federal government and, in my opinion, should be considered. I have nothing against PP providing health services or, even, abortions. After all, abortions are legal. But I think they should come up with their own funding and not expect the taxpayer to foot their bill. $540M isn't chicken feed. It could certainly upgrade more than a couple of bridges that are about to fall down.

 

[ludin]

I find it ironic that Republicans are relying on the same procedural process used to pass Obamacare (a tactic that they denounced as "unconstitutional" and "forcing it down our throats") to try and defund Obamacare.

I also hope that the conservatives in the House and Senate (and in the general public) can feel good about FINALLY getting something done...by passing a pointless piece of legislation and making Obama go through the STRENUOUS process of signing along the Veto line.

well at the time it was unconstitutional.

however now that it is part of the budget it is completely legal to do so.
that is the difference.

 

[ludin]

The way I see it, there are two issues involving PP:

1. The videos that suggest improprieties in the way they handle fetal tissue donations and the fees they charge for such handling.

2. Whether the federal government should be giving PP half a billion dollars a year so they can provide their services.

The first issue would be better handled, in-house, by PP. They should set rules for all of their clinics and employees that would eliminate the kinds of things we've seen in those videos. The federal government need not get involved. On the other hand, if they won't deal with their organization's problems, perhaps the courts can deal with it.

The second issue IS in the purview of the federal government and, in my opinion, should be considered. I have nothing against PP providing health services or, even, abortions. After all, abortions are legal. But I think they should come up with their own funding and not expect the taxpayer to foot their bill. $540M isn't chicken feed. It could certainly upgrade more than a couple of bridges that are about to fall down.

the PP fight is stupid. there are other more important things to worry about. if anything just make sure that federal funds aren't being used for abortion and be done with it.
there should be enough people that support their cause they should be able to generate most of their funding through donations and fund drives.

on that I agree. that is how most charities get their money.

 

[ludin]

Nice dramatic article on Huffpo.

Ryan's legislation targets the ACA by ordering the repeal of several key parts of the law, including the mandate for people to purchase health care, the cost-controlling Independent Payment Advisory Board, a tax on medical devices, and the so-called "Cadillac plan" tax on high-cost health insurance.

OMG! It's an assault on Cadillac plan taxes! Everyone grab your guns! Protect yourselves! We need anarchy! This shall not happen!

yeah most of those are the most hated parts of the bill.

 

[anatta]

Here's a recent audit....

"...In addition to interviewing multiple Planned Parenthood employees in the St. Louis area, investigators also combed through thousands of pages of documents related to the “process for the disposal of fetal tissue,” the attorney general’s office said. They concluded that, after an abortion procedure, fetal tissue was carefully transported to a pathology lab, and was subsequently destroyed in an incinerator by a “waste-disposal company.”​

State Attorney General: Planned Parenthood Did Not Mishandle Fetal Tissue | Mediaite


Massachusetts, Indiana, South Dakota, Georgia and Pennsylvania conducted investigations as well and didn't find any wrong doing...

http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/08/24/growing-list-of-planned-parenthood-investigatio/205116

from what I read.its an audit on tissue-handling practices.
The heart of the matter seems to be on selling fetal tissues for profit, or not..

 

[Mycroft]

the PP fight is stupid. there are other more important things to worry about. if anything just make sure that federal funds aren't being used for abortion and be done with it.
there should be enough people that support their cause they should be able to generate most of their funding through donations and fund drives.

on that I agree. that is how most charities get their money.

To me, abortion shouldn't even be an issue as to whether PP should be getting half a billion dollars from the government. As a charitable organization, they should be getting ALL their funding from donations and fund drives. The taxpayer should not be funding private charitable organizations.

 

[Fearandloathing]

You Bastard!!! I was going to use that to refute whatever lame argument MrT was going to throw out there. Maybe he will post an answer before he reads this post.

I totally agree, however, one day I would hope they lock the rules in cement rather than play legal games with the procedures. Maybe that would reduce the opportunity to play dirty. They will never play nice and if they do it won't last long.

One of the reasons the Parliamentary systems works is the rules have been set in stone for 4 hundred years. There's always an attempt with a new government to play ****ty games, but it always backfires.

What you guys have now is a grandiose football game with the two sides' cheerleaders in the media. You keep score by how much you can screw over the other guy, not the legislation you've brought forward, the compromises you've achieved. "Leadership" is making the other guy look like an ass.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Ahem. Point of fact here.

Reconciliation on a bill is standard procedure, and not 'an obscure procedural move'. If you want a truly 'an obscure procedural move', check into how an unrelated bill got started in the house, was gutted, replaced in it's entirety with an amendment by the Senate and ObamaCare shoveled into the bill instead, this because the house has to originate spending bills (oh wait, it's a tax instead - :roll: - yeah, when it needs to be). Now THAT is an obscure procedural move, and was executed by the Harry Reid controlled Senate.

So yes, that characterization that ObamaCare was shoved down the throats of the nation, is most accurate. This? Not so much.



No, it most certainly IS NOT the same procedural process as was used by the Democrats for ObamaCare, and even if it were, good for the goose, good for the gander.



Indeed. The damage that Reid, Obama and Pelosi have done to the institution of congress hasn't even been discussed or measured yet.

We have come a long way from when Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan sat down to lunch. And far from a second term Clinton who heard the voter and reconciled. Even Bush got votes from both sides of the aisle.

This group has been the nastiest and most divisive, led and supported by Obama. And no, we haven't begun to see the fall out, and looking at whose leading the primaries right now I figure there won't be a start at fixing things for a long time

 

[eohrnberger]

We have come a long way from when Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan sat down to lunch. And far from a second term Clinton who heard the voter and reconciled. Even Bush got votes from both sides of the aisle.

This group has been the nastiest and most divisive, led and supported by Obama. And no, we haven't begun to see the fall out, and looking at whose leading the primaries right now I figure there won't be a start at fixing things for a long time

A bi-partisan gang of 'however many' might be a start at cooperating across the isle.

 

[upsideguy]

If the Republican party thinks this is a victory, they are shooting themselves in the head, not the foot.

Right now, every member of that congress should be asking the question 'what is the most important issue in the minds of the voter'? I don't have to live there, hear or see any news casts to know that it is NOT a moral victory over Obamacare, and forcing yet another head-to-head with "enemies" Obama. The country is tired of that ****, which is why a loose cannon like Trump can be leading in the polls.

To the guy who isn't working, the woman who doesn't make enough, the family that lost their home, "Obamacare" is a slogan, they want to be able to put food on their families' plates. If it were me, would be sending him a bill about the legal and rapid return of illegal aliens to veto, a bill to cut spending in that area, increase enforcement etc. Make it jobs issue.

From what I have seen from this party since 1996, I think you could run a lamp post and beat them.

Well said. The Republicans need to learn how to pick their battles. Its complete silliness (insanity) to fight the same battle over and over, especially since they have near zero chance of a favorable outcome. The only outcome they are assured of getting by taking on Obamacare at this point in time is to firmly entrench in the American people that notion that Republicans are petty, lack foresight, are unable to forward, unable to accomplish anything and therefore unable to lead.....

The Cons should be taking some leadership with issue that are on everyone's mind: tax reform and immigration reform, where they can show themselves as having ideas and the ability to accomplish something.

 

[vesper]

To me, abortion shouldn't even be an issue as to whether PP should be getting half a billion dollars from the government. As a charitable organization, they should be getting ALL their funding from donations and fund drives. The taxpayer should not be funding private charitable organizations.

Boy do I agree with that statement 100%.

But with the current conditions in which PP seems to be engaged in, it is apparent that there are also loopholes in the laws that they can get away with what many Americans find unacceptable.

Listen here, I don't want any of my tax dollars supporting such crap. Period. Let those who want such things support it with their own donations.
Let them conjure up the funds to keep what they think to be a "good" thing.

 

[polgara]

Boy do I agree with that statement 100%.

But with the current conditions in which PP seems to be engaged in, it is apparent that there are also loopholes in the laws that they can get away with what many Americans find unacceptable.

Listen here, I don't want any of my tax dollars supporting such crap. Period. Let those who want such things support it with their own donations.
Let them conjure up the funds to keep what they think to be a "good" thing.

I don't understand why millions of dollars are in Obama's budget to fund what I thought was a private entity. Am I wrong, and they are government owned?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

So can you post the investigation report?

I mean, they must have resources out the ass. I have to spend months documenting things and working with outside counsel when I want to investigate something for my company. I'd like to see how you can shortcut a system so you can gather all of the evidence and interview all of the people in just a couple of weeks.

I routinely have to pull data for outside council for discovery. If there is not enough evidence to bring a lawsuit because its a completely baseless accusation, it tends to go quite fast. Considering how many people are routinely gunning for Planned Parenthood, I would suspect they would keep really good records.

However, that wasn't my point. My point was that its absurd to compare authorities looking into a handful of offices to what family courts and child protective services have to go through to monitor the welfare of every child in their county or state that has been either adjudicated dependent neglect or family in need of services.

 

[vesper]

I don't understand why millions of dollars are in Obama's budget to fund what I thought was a private entity. Am I wrong, and they are government owned?

Evening Pol, when you read through Obamcare it takes a dozen lawyers to cipher it for you. It is a fargin mess. But then again wasn't it Pelosi who said they had to pass the bill in order for all of us to know what was in it? The truth is everyday folks are tired of the sh*t being passed into law. Sh*t that stinks to high heaven. Sh*t that endangers peoples constitutional rights. Sh*t that enables federal government to further limit the constitutional rights of state governments. Sh*t that continues to increase the national debt that we just can't accommodate.

It's SH*T that we find ourselves looking for boots, hip boots to wade through. Simply Sh*t.

 

[Mycroft]

I don't understand why millions of dollars are in Obama's budget to fund what I thought was a private entity. Am I wrong, and they are government owned?

No...they are not government owned...just heavily funded by the government.

Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA), usually referred to simply as Planned Parenthood, is a non-profit organization that provides reproductive health as well as maternal and child health services. PPFA is the U.S. affiliate of the International Planned Parenthood Federation (IPPF) and one of its larger members. PPFA has its roots in Brooklyn, New York, where Margaret Sanger opened the first birth-control clinic in the U.S. She founded the American Birth Control League in 1921, which changed its name to "Planned Parenthood" in 1942. It has since grown and consists of approximately 85 affiliates and 820 clinics in the United States,[3] with a total budget of US$1 billion. PPFA provides services to over three million people in the country, and supports services for over one million people outside the United States.

Planned Parenthood has received federal funding since 1970, when President Richard Nixon signed into law the Family Planning Services and Population Research Act, amending the Public Health Service Act. Title X of that law provides funding for family planning services, including contraception and family planning information. The law had bipartisan support from liberals, who saw contraception access as increasing families' control over their lives,[citation needed] and conservatives who saw it as a way to keep people off welfare.[citation needed] Nixon described Title X funding as based on the premise that "no American woman should be denied access to family planning assistance because of her economic condition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood

 

[polgara]

Evening Pol, when you read through Obamcare it takes a dozen lawyers to cipher it for you. It is a fargin mess. But then again wasn't it Pelosi who said they had to pass the bill in order for all of us to know what was in it? The truth is everyday folks are tired of the sh*t being passed into law. Sh*t that stinks to high heaven. Sh*t that endangers peoples constitutional rights. Sh*t that enables federal government to further limit the constitutional rights of state governments. Sh*t that continues to increase the national debt that we just can't accommodate.

It's SH*T that we find ourselves looking for boots, hip boots to wade through. Simply Sh*t.

Someone posted that millions of dollars are in Obama's budget to fund Planned Parenthood, which I thought was a private entity. Does the government own them off the books?

Disregard my question. I just read Mycroft's explanation, and edited my post..