GOP increasingly balks at calling Jan. 6 an insurrection

[Rawley]

Blaming the bad actions of the GOP on Democrats?

Sounds rather silly.

Goose and gander.

 

[gbg3]

Dems so desperately want to hold onto 1/6 and continue to try to amplify it. They do not want the 2022 elections to be about their policy or activities in governing. Just as with Trump's entire term, they want to somehow put Trump in the middle of yet another investigation (one after another, even if the Dems have to fraudulently plant the entire basis for an investigation, which we've seen they've been happy to do).
Now they are screaming how much we supposedly need an new investigation (this time into 1/6). Well, the GOP has the sense to allow 2021 to be about the current president and the current administration - not yet another unnecessary investigation the Dems hope will consume the national narrative. There was a moderate riot on Jan 6th and it paled in comparison to the riots of the summer (which Dems have shown no interest in "investigating!!!!!!!!"). Not only was there a riot, but it sure looks like the FBI was in on it. Of course, the FBI will easily justify their involvement by saying getting in the middle of that kind of activity is "how we perform our important job", so even if they were the biggest planners and instigators - they're just fine/justified/rationalized (they'll pull a Comey on stage routine).
So, let Nancy do whatever she wants with 1/6 investigations from within her own party. I think the country will and already is yawning about investigating a riot the Dems want to blow up and freak out about. Republicans have no interest in assisting with Dem drama on something unworthy of drama, entirely unworthy of a lengthy investigation, and something the GOP well understands has nothing remaining but yet another desired Dem investigation. And, the newest info about likely FBI operatives in the middle of it should surprise no one. The reputation of an honorable FBI was shot long ago.
The only aspect I think should continue is the lawsuit from the Babbit family. An unarmed woman was shot and killed and that deserves both attention and answers. I hope the courts will help provide answers there. And, I hope the conditions under which the rioters are (long) being held until a very delayed trial - will receive heavy attention and scrutiny. That's a huge and very dangerous double standard at play.
Back to the OP - yes the GOP is now balking at the insurrection label. They should be and I expect they will more and more.

 

[Fledermaus]

i'd call it a riot, but it falls far short of an actual attempt to overthrow the government, as there was no way to do that without a large armed-with-serious weaponry group with a plan.

Unsuccessful insurrection is still insurrection.

 

[Cope]

Not letting you derail =/= hypocritical

It certainly is if you refuse to use the same definition to describe other activities that also fit the definition. The only one running here, is you, from using that definition in other places.

 

[Fledermaus]

Goose and gander.

And?

So what?

The events of 1/6 are still an insurrection.

 

[Hypothetical]

Unsuccessful insurrection is still insurrection.

not sure how one could be in the mindset with intentions to overthrow a government without weapons, its the stupidest thing i've ever heard. I think they wanted their voice heard and got overheated resulting in a riot.

 

[Fledermaus]

It certainly is if you refuse to use the same definition to describe other activities that also fit the definition. The only one running here, is you, from using that definition in other places.

Other activities are irrelevant as this discussion is about the events of 1/6.

If you wish to discuss other events feel free to open a thread on it.

 

[Fledermaus]

not sure how one could be in the mindset with intentions to overthrow a government without weapons, its the stupidest thing i've ever heard. I think they wanted their voice heard and got overheated resulting in a riot.

Not sure that any of this matters as overthrow isn't a prerequisite to insurrection.

 

[Callen]

, no one is an insurrectionist until they are charged and convicted. Hasn't happened yet

The operative word being "yet". It is naive to believe the DOJ isn't looking beyond the idiots on the ground.

call it a riot, but it falls far short of an actual attempt to overthrow the government, as there was no way to do that without a large armed-with-serious weaponry group with a plan.

.........their ability to succeed is not relevant to their intent and purpose.

 

[Cope]

Other activities are irrelevant as this discussion is about the events of 1/6.

If you wish to discuss other events feel free to open a thread on it.

Honestly you are starting to sound like one of my kids.
"I know I borrowed money from you for that the last time Dad"

"But THIS time when I am asking to borrow money it isn't about THAT time, we are only discussing this time!"

I think you are I are done here.

 

[Callen]

There was a moderate riot on Jan 6th

Who knew that storming the Capitol, threatening the lives and safety of every single federally elected official, except for one, viciously beating and using pepper and bear spray against police trying to defend the Capitol was a "moderate" riot? Riots have a scale? As judged by who? Maybe ask the police officers if they thought it was "moderate". I am shocked at the severe shift to the extreme right since the election. It has been astounding.

 

[Athanasius68]

Where does the definition of insurrection include demands to overthrow? It doesn't. Try again?

Ok-- then you are talking about petitioning Congress for a redress of grievances.

Imo, your Constitutional interpretation is incorrect. Article 2 Clause 2 includes the process of the President of the Senate opening, counting, and naming the President after the states work is done.

Yes-- the VP is counting the votes as to what the states had already done.
He or she isn't deciding who the president is.

 

[Athanasius68]

Who knew that storming the Capitol, threatening the lives and safety of every single federally elected official, except for one, viciously beating and using pepper and bear spray against police trying to defend the Capitol was a "moderate" riot? Riots have a scale? As judged by who? Maybe ask the police officers if they thought it was "moderate". I am shocked at the severe shift to the extreme right since the election. It has been astounding.

The claim here is that the events was an "insurrection." If we are going to start to talk about political violence in general, it was much smaller than what was seen in many places last summer, or in previous years.

 

[Fledermaus]

Honestly you are starting to sound like one of my kids.
"I know I borrowed money from you for that the last time Dad"

"But THIS time when I am asking to borrow money it isn't about THAT time, we are only discussing this time!"

I think you are I are done here.

So, you have nothing to add about the 1/6 Insurrection and the GOP crawfishing from the term.

I think you and I are indeed done.

 

[Fledermaus]

Ok-- then you are talking about petitioning Congress for a redress of grievances.



Yes-- the VP is counting the votes as to what the states had already done.
He or she isn't deciding who the president is.

Intentional ignorance of the steps involved in the election process per USC.

 

[Fledermaus]

The claim here is that the events was an "insurrection." If we are going to start to talk about political violence in general, it was much smaller than what was seen in many places last summer, or in previous years.

The dictionary definition of Insurrection still fits the events of 1/6.

 

[Rawley]

And?

So what?

The events of 1/6 are still an insurrection.

Fifth time. Not according to the standard the Democrats in Congress have set.

 

[Fledermaus]

Fifth time. Not according to the standard the Democrats in Congress have set.

The Democrats have zero to do with the dictionary definition.

 

[Rawley]

The Democrats have zero to do with the dictionary definition.

Sure they do, they chose the words. If you want to argue they are ignorant of the words they chose ...

 

[Athanasius68]

The DOJ never tips their hat on ongoing investigations. What about what you are seeing doesn't support that the investigation is deeper?

The founder of Oath Keepers pled guilty, but nothing to do with sedition or 'insurrection.'
If the feds had the evidence of the above, they would have had him please guilty to the above and name the rest of his accomplices in the sedition or 'insurrection.'
Hard to imagine that lesser folks on totem pole is where all the 'insurrection' came from.

 

[Fledermaus]

Sure they do, they chose the words. If you want to argue they are ignorant of the words they chose ...

Choosing words =/= Defining words.

Insurrection fits the events of 1/6.

 

[Fledermaus]

The founder of Oath Keepers pled guilty, but nothing to do with sedition or 'insurrection.'
If the feds had the evidence of the above, they would have had him please guilty to the above and name the rest of his accomplices in the sedition or 'insurrection.'
Hard to imagine that lesser folks on totem pole is where all the 'insurrection' came from.

And still the dictionary definition fits what occurred on 1/6.

 

[Rawley]

Choosing words =/= Defining words.

Insurrection fits the events of 1/6.

And "insurrection" fits the riots all last summer. But the Dem congresscritters who drafted this bill and chose that word have refused to call the riots "insurrections." Which leads to the only conclusion that the use of the label was nothing more than hypocritical political trolling. Which is why some GOP are balking at the label.

 

[jnug]

And "insurrection" fits the riots all last summer. But the Dem congresscritters who drafted this bill and chose that word have refused to call the riots "insurrections." Which leads to the only conclusion that the use of the label was nothing more than hypocritical political trolling. Which is why some GOP are balking at the label.

No they don't.

 

[Fledermaus]

And "insurrection" fits the riots all last summer. But the Dem congresscritters who drafted this bill and chose that word have refused to call the riots "insurrections." Which leads to the only conclusion that the use of the label was nothing more than hypocritical political trolling. Which is why some GOP are balking at the label.

Whataboutism rejected.