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Gonzaga university may suspend students for saving their own lives

sawyerloggingon

sawyerloggingon

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Why can universities usurp the 2nd amendment? These kids had a gun and used it to keep a convicted felon at bay and now they face suspension not to mention their gun was confiscated. Why can a university deny 2nd amendment rights? This should go to the supreme court. These are two of the most clean cut law abiding kids I ever saw and this is complete BS!

SPOKANE, Wash. - Two Gonzaga University students could be facing suspension or even expulsion for violating the university's weapons policy after they protected themselves with their guns from a six-time convicted felon.
The incident happened at an apartment located at 207 E. Sinto Ave. near the Gonzaga University campus. Two weeks ago a stranger walked up to apartment #5, knocked on the door and proceeded to ask one of the tenants, Erik Fagan, for $15.
"I was like, 'I'll give you a can a food, a blanket, don't feel comfortable giving money,' I don't know who you are," said Fagan.
A Gonzaga senior, Fagan didn't know the man at the door was John Taylor, a six-time convicted felon who told Fagan he had recently gotten out of jail.
"My gut instinct was telling me that I wasn't going to be able to get that door closed before he came through," Fagan said.
Fagan's roommate, Daniel McIntosh, was upstairs at the time.
"He starts coming more in the doorway and I yell for my roommate Dan, at which point Dan comes down the stairs and around the corner," said Fagan.
Fagan's roommate, Daniel McIntosh, was upstairs at the time. McIntosh responded to Fagan's yelling, bringing a pistol with him.
"So I drew on Mr. Taylor and immediately Mr. Taylor turned and fled," McIntosh said.


Gonzaga students face possible expulsion for defending themselves with gun | Spokane/E. WA - KXLY.com-
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Why can universities usurp the 2nd amendment? These kids had a gun and used it to keep a convicted felon at bay and now they face suspension not to mention their gun was confiscated. Why can a university deny 2nd amendment rights? This should go to the supreme court. These are two of the most clean cut law abiding kids I ever saw and this is complete BS!

SPOKANE, Wash. - Two Gonzaga University students could be facing suspension or even expulsion for violating the university's weapons policy after they protected themselves with their guns from a six-time convicted felon.
The incident happened at an apartment located at 207 E. Sinto Ave. near the Gonzaga University campus. Two weeks ago a stranger walked up to apartment #5, knocked on the door and proceeded to ask one of the tenants, Erik Fagan, for $15.
"I was like, 'I'll give you a can a food, a blanket, don't feel comfortable giving money,' I don't know who you are," said Fagan.
A Gonzaga senior, Fagan didn't know the man at the door was John Taylor, a six-time convicted felon who told Fagan he had recently gotten out of jail.
"My gut instinct was telling me that I wasn't going to be able to get that door closed before he came through," Fagan said.
Fagan's roommate, Daniel McIntosh, was upstairs at the time.
"He starts coming more in the doorway and I yell for my roommate Dan, at which point Dan comes down the stairs and around the corner," said Fagan.
Fagan's roommate, Daniel McIntosh, was upstairs at the time. McIntosh responded to Fagan's yelling, bringing a pistol with him.
"So I drew on Mr. Taylor and immediately Mr. Taylor turned and fled," McIntosh said.


Gonzaga students face possible expulsion for defending themselves with gun | Spokane/E. WA - KXLY.com-
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1) the University has the right to make such rules on its apartments

2) the rules are stupid

3) the students should move
 
sawyerloggingon said:
They may have to move, they may be expelled. Better expelled than dead IMO.
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crooks should now target Gonzaga owned residential units knowing that they will not faced armed responses
 
The students do have right to defend themselves. I find it a little dishonest of a college senior not knowing the college's rule of no firearms in the building though.
 
As a Gonzaga student I'm kind of disappointed. At least for the apartments off campus it doesn't really seem like a good rule. I can see it for the on campus dorms, but the Logan neighborhood around here is a bit dangerous. Seems like they should be allowed the ability to defend themselves there.
 
Surprising with Eastern Washington being so conservative..TD is right about Gonzaga..It's called "home rule" all over the Nation and must be eliminated with concealed-carry on campus approved by the school boards..
sawyerloggingon said:
They may have to move, they may be expelled. Better expelled than dead IMO.
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NIMBY said:
Surprising with Eastern Washington being so conservative.

Spokane itself is pretty liberal, and the campus is right in the center of the city. The neighborhood surrounding it is pretty crime-ridden and I can't approve of the policy.
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Anagram said:
As a Gonzaga student I'm kind of disappointed. At least for the apartments off campus it doesn't really seem like a good rule. I can see it for the on campus dorms, but the Logan neighborhood around here is a bit dangerous. Seems like they should be allowed the ability to defend themselves there.
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You are a Zag student now? I live on the South Hill.

I guess the apts are owned by the University so they have the same gun laws as the dorms on campus. I think off campus they shouldn't dictate if one owns a gun but buyer beaware.

The one thing that irritates me is the two student claiming not knowing there was an anti-firearm policy in the apts. Without ever being at that apt I bet you there is a posted sign indicating firearms were prohibited.

Was amazed the perp was unarmed but perhaps he was thinking a Gonzage apt would be easy takings.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Why can universities usurp the 2nd amendment? These kids had a gun and used it to keep a convicted felon at bay and now they face suspension not to mention their gun was confiscated. Why can a university deny 2nd amendment rights? This should go to the supreme court. These are two of the most clean cut law abiding kids I ever saw and this is complete BS!

SPOKANE, Wash. - Two Gonzaga University students could be facing suspension or even expulsion for violating the university's weapons policy after they protected themselves with their guns from a six-time convicted felon.
The incident happened at an apartment located at 207 E. Sinto Ave. near the Gonzaga University campus. Two weeks ago a stranger walked up to apartment #5, knocked on the door and proceeded to ask one of the tenants, Erik Fagan, for $15.
"I was like, 'I'll give you a can a food, a blanket, don't feel comfortable giving money,' I don't know who you are," said Fagan.
A Gonzaga senior, Fagan didn't know the man at the door was John Taylor, a six-time convicted felon who told Fagan he had recently gotten out of jail.
"My gut instinct was telling me that I wasn't going to be able to get that door closed before he came through," Fagan said.
Fagan's roommate, Daniel McIntosh, was upstairs at the time.
"He starts coming more in the doorway and I yell for my roommate Dan, at which point Dan comes down the stairs and around the corner," said Fagan.
Fagan's roommate, Daniel McIntosh, was upstairs at the time. McIntosh responded to Fagan's yelling, bringing a pistol with him.
"So I drew on Mr. Taylor and immediately Mr. Taylor turned and fled," McIntosh said.


Gonzaga students face possible expulsion for defending themselves with gun | Spokane/E. WA - KXLY.com-
Click to expand...

This story is actually allot worse than what hit the papers. What has not been reported was that Taylor was reaching behind his back and was saying "you really don't want to do this , you don't know who you are dealing with". Dan would have been perfectly within his legal right to employ 5 or 6 black talon 10mm Magnums. And the Cop who took the report agreed. Dan showed great restraint and if Taylor had come forward Dan was prepared to take up on the trigger. His finger was probably indexed but maybe not after the move to the back. 2nd, when Campus security let themselves into their apartment at 0200 (3 hours later) he showed restraint for the second time, I personally probably would have shot them.
To the comment that they should have known about the policy: When they pay their rent they select "off Campus" in the Universities system. There is no physical ID that the facility is Campus, the apartment has absolutely no access restriction. It is like any other apartment building in the area. The only difference is ownership. The exception to landlord tenant laws are intended for actual on campus facilities, not these. Folks there is more, hopefully we don't have to go there, but we will.
Students, staff, and some Jesuits have expressed support to the tune of 95% plus. Dan is a double major Electrical Engineering and Political Science, might even head to law after this.
Here is some more background and I will be posting staus.
https://www.facebook.com/SittingDucksatGonzaga
 
This incident happened the very next night:
From: kenny@gonzaga.edu
Date: October 27, 2013 at 10:10:36 AM PDT
To: all-ug-l@lists.gonzaga.edu
Subject: [ALL-UG] Security Advisory – Strong-arm Robbery Reported in Logan Neighborhood

A Gonzaga student reported last night, October 27, 2013, that between midnight and 1:00 a.m., while walking with two other students in the alley north of the 400 block of East Mission, they were approached by an unknown male and female. Both were wearing red “hoody” sweat shirts with faces painted to resemble skeletons. The female punched one of the students. The student was then grabbed and thrown to the ground and repeatedly struck. The other students attempted to intervene, but were unable to stop the assault. During the assault the female demanded money from the student. A purse was given to the male subject, who rifled through it, then dropped it. Both subjects then fled east through the alley towards Astor Street. Two GU-contracted Spokane Police Department patrol units were on duty in the neighborhood at the time of the incident. They responded and completed a report. The subjects were described of average height and build. The student who was assaulted was treate
d for her injuries after reporting the assault.

Gonzaga community members are reminded of the following safety tips:

• If you have to walk, do so in groups especially after dark. Use well-lit, busy routes. Be aware of your surroundings. Avoid secluded areas such as alleyways.
• Utilize Saferide if you need transportation back to your residence from an off-campus location. Call 568-8000.
• Utilize Security escorts to travel across campus: 313-2222.
• Report suspicious persons or circumstances immediately to GU Security (313-2222) or SPD (911).
• Once you are in safe place, report all crimes immediately to police at 911 and GU Security at 313-2222.
 
The perp was not necessarily unarmed. He was reaching behind his back when my son drew on him. He figured out that he would loose if he did not disappear. He ran around for 30 minutes before he was apprehended. Plenty of time to toss a weapon.
 
They shouldn't be punished, because they put no one at risk and it was self defense, but let's not pretend that having a gun in the apartment was the only way to accomplish basic safety. You don't open the door for random thugs.
 
mcintoshjr said:
The perp was not necessarily unarmed. He was reaching behind his back when my son drew on him. He figured out that he would loose if he did not disappear. He ran around for 30 minutes before he was apprehended. Plenty of time to toss a weapon.
Click to expand...

That was your son? Good lookin kids, both of them. Clean cut and well spoken, they will go far in life.
 
Erik answered the door because of 2 reasons, both were home and a friend had just left and It could have been him returning. Also these 2 men grew up in households that hunt, fish and defend themselves, My son in Spokane, where in 15 years never locked our door. The other Alaska and probably under similar circumstances. We lived in an area where every other neighbor was armed as well and we all knew each other and would watch out for each other. BTW one was a SPD Sargent, Another Federal LE, Another retired Federal LE, get the picture. I did not see a peep hole in the door as well, there might be one but most are worthless especially at night. 1 1/2 years ago a scooter was stolen out of a parking lot at GU, supposed to have video but yet they have no help to LE over that. These are the Keystone Campus Cops. Also there was a theft of my sons Mountain climbing boots with the $600 custom orthodics off their balcony earlier this year.
 
mcintoshjr said:
Erik answered the door because of 2 reasons, both were home and a friend had just left and It could have been him returning. Also these 2 men grew up in households that hunt, fish and defend themselves, My son in Spokane, where in 15 years never locked our door. The other Alaska and probably under similar circumstances. We lived in an area where every other neighbor was armed as well and we all knew each other and would watch out for each other. BTW one was a SPD Sargent, Another Federal LE, Another retired Federal LE, get the picture. I did not see a peep hole in the door as well, there might be one but most are worthless especially at night. 1 1/2 years ago a scooter was stolen out of a parking lot at GU, supposed to have video but yet they have no help to LE over that. These are the Keystone Campus Cops. Also there was a theft of my sons Mountain climbing boots with the $600 custom orthodics off their balcony earlier this year.
Click to expand...

One thing I'm confused about, if this is off campus housing how can Gonzaga say no guns allowed?
 
sawyerloggingon said:
One thing I'm confused about, if this is off campus housing how can Gonzaga say no guns allowed?
Click to expand...

They own the residential units-its the same as a storekeeper putting up a no guns allowed. its a clear case of property rights.

I think its stupid but legally Gonzaga is in the right.
 
TurtleDude said:
They own the residential units-its the same as a storekeeper putting up a no guns allowed. its a clear case of property rights.

I think its stupid but legally Gonzaga is in the right.
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Interesting. I never knew a private party could ignore the constitution. In my life I have never seen or heard of a no guns policy anywhere except schools and prisons, ya learn something every day.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Interesting. I never knew a private party could ignore the constitution. In my life I have never seen or heard of a no guns policy anywhere except schools and prisons, ya learn something every day.
Click to expand...

1) the constitution prevents GOVERNMENT action

2) for example, if your BOSS fires you for wearing an OBAMA SUCKS T-shirt that is not involve constitutional issues if your boss is not acting under color of state or federal law

3) your second amendment rights do not allow you to carry on the private property of others
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Why can universities usurp the 2nd amendment? These kids had a gun and used it to keep a convicted felon at bay and now they face suspension not to mention their gun was confiscated. Why can a university deny 2nd amendment rights? This should go to the supreme court. These are two of the most clean cut law abiding kids I ever saw and this is complete BS!

SPOKANE, Wash. - Two Gonzaga University students could be facing suspension or even expulsion for violating the university's weapons policy after they protected themselves with their guns from a six-time convicted felon.
The incident happened at an apartment located at 207 E. Sinto Ave. near the Gonzaga University campus. Two weeks ago a stranger walked up to apartment #5, knocked on the door and proceeded to ask one of the tenants, Erik Fagan, for $15.
"I was like, 'I'll give you a can a food, a blanket, don't feel comfortable giving money,' I don't know who you are," said Fagan.
A Gonzaga senior, Fagan didn't know the man at the door was John Taylor, a six-time convicted felon who told Fagan he had recently gotten out of jail.
"My gut instinct was telling me that I wasn't going to be able to get that door closed before he came through," Fagan said.
Fagan's roommate, Daniel McIntosh, was upstairs at the time.
"He starts coming more in the doorway and I yell for my roommate Dan, at which point Dan comes down the stairs and around the corner," said Fagan.
Fagan's roommate, Daniel McIntosh, was upstairs at the time. McIntosh responded to Fagan's yelling, bringing a pistol with him.
"So I drew on Mr. Taylor and immediately Mr. Taylor turned and fled," McIntosh said.


Gonzaga students face possible expulsion for defending themselves with gun | Spokane/E. WA - KXLY.com-
Click to expand...

Were they on campus or off? Does the campus claim this as a campus housing area?
 
Last edited:
SBu said:
Were they on campus or off? Does the campus claim this as a campus housing area?
Click to expand...

It happened off campus but the apartments are owned by Gonzaga. Legally I agree with Turtle that Gonzaga was in the right, even if the policy is wrong.
 
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