• Please read the Announcement concerning missing posts from 10/8/25-10/15/25.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Go figure

:lamo

Of COURSE they built that. They built a system of government DESIGNED to grow with the times. They built a system of government that was able to grow with societal changes.

Yea, except England ended slavery before we did and didnt have a hundred years of Jim crow after. :shrug:

Some were slave owners..just as some blacks in their day were slave owners. Just as a great number of black people today are slave owners.

Yes, you seem to love pointing that out as if black slave owners absolves white slave owners. They don't. You do now it's possible to be against all slave owners dont you. :confused:

And you are mistaken if you think my derision of people like you is rage. I just feel bad for you. I think it’s a shame you specifically and your ancestry didn’t get the opportunity to stay in your ancestral homes.

Does that shame extend to you and your family? I'm assuming you aren't native american...

But you are right. I don’t care about slavery ‘then’. Considering every nation and culture practiced slavery, I don’t get spun up on foolish matters promoted by revisionists.

Well nearly every developed country today has tough gun regulations. I'm sure you wont get spun up to much when we do the same here. But exactly how is it revisionist to point out facts? Is it revisionist to pretend slavery was okay just because everyone was doing it? They knew it was wrong they just didnt care enough to put an end to it.

As for slavery today...I think it’s tragic the number of ‘woke’ bitches in the world that manage to muster poutrage over something from 260 years ago that can’t find a spark of concern over the people committing the atrocity today.

Again you project. I care about slavery everywhere. Your just mad that right now we're discussing the horrible practices of your beloved heroes. :shrug:
 
Yea, except England ended slavery before we did and didnt have a hundred years of Jim crow after. :shrug:



Yes, you seem to love pointing that out as if black slave owners absolves white slave owners. They don't. You do now it's possible to be against all slave owners dont you. :confused:



Does that shame extend to you and your family? I'm assuming you aren't native american...



Well nearly every developed country today has tough gun regulations. I'm sure you wont get spun up to much when we do the same here. But exactly how is it revisionist to point out facts? Is it revisionist to pretend slavery was okay just because everyone was doing it? They knew it was wrong they just didnt care enough to put an end to it.



Again you project. I care about slavery everywhere. Your just mad that right now we're discussing the horrible practices of your beloved heroes. :shrug:

England had a few hundred years on us.

Shame?

:lamo

That’s ****ing hilarious. 1...my family didn’t come here til after slavery was abolished. 2-I wouldn’t give the first **** if my great great great great great great great great great great grandparents owned slaves. 3-It’s more likely that YOUR ancestry owned/owns slaves than mine.

And horse****. You don’t give the first **** about slavery today. Hell...outside of the slavery You think
you can exploit to make excuses for your communities dismal ****ing existence, you don’t care about slavery from the past.

Maybe the reason you don’t give a **** about slavery today is that the majority of both the slaves AND slaveholders are black.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
England had a few hundred years on us.

Buy I thought only the great founders created a unique and magnanimous government capable of change which is why they deserve a mulligan for slavery? :shrug:

I wouldn’t give the first **** if my great great great great great great great great great great grandparents owned slaves...

And horse****. You don’t give the first **** about slavery today. Hell...outside of the slavery You think
you can exploit to make excuses for your communities dismal ****ing existence, you don’t care about slavery from the past.

You're doing a bang up job of convincing everyone you're not some rage filled angry white guy. :thumbs:

Maybe the reason you don’t give a **** about slavery today is that the majority of both the slaves AND slaveholders are black.

Says who? Plenty of trafficked asians and Europeans as well. Slavery doesn't just happen in Africa now. It happens all over the world for illegal labor and the sex trade. Maybe that doesn't bother you, you seem to only get upset when someone disparages old dead white guys. :shrug:
 
Really? Did slavery actually start 400 years ago "this month"?

Sure, the previous 100,000 or more years humans lived in perfect harmony with one another.
 
100% were complicit in slavery

You might be right, I haven't checked all of them. But note Benjamin Franklin just after the constitution had passed had become an opponent of slavery, and asked the Congress to end it. The southerners, as usual, blocked that, and then the Congress determined the constitution didn't allow them to end it.
 
Have been reading the NYTimes special on slavery. Good stuff, though hard to accept as part of our history. Now I discover that while generally positively received on the left and the right, some conservatives are upset with it. I can understand differing with some of the opinions expressed, but the Times does us a great favor in highlighting what started 400 years ago this month. Can someone from the right explain why/how Gingrich and others are upset? Fine to differ with some opinions expressed in some articles, but attacking the paper for running it? Are their other "commemorations" out there from outlets perceived as conservative that have a different slant on the topic?

I can't speak for Newt Gingrich, but I did notice a couple of patterns wile perusing the material.

American Exceptionalism.
I don't recall who it was that said that "Americans are unique in that they expect good rather than bad things to happen to them", and even though the quote is old enough that I'm sure the person was thinking of of Americans as Anglo-Saxon Protestants, exceptionalism also shines through in this material. I'm may be sentimental when I consider it a healthy sign to see it represented minority style as a new incarnation of something comfortably sterotypical, but coming from old Europe, it is actually nice to see outrages treated as outrages rather than met with jaded indifference. History is so full of them that you become incapable of caring about it all, unless it is shoved right in your face. Re. your question, I imagine some people taking umbrage exactly because of this; the suffering indirectly being portrayed as something surprisingly exceptional rather than the **** everyone's ancestors went through at one time or another, thus belittling *their* heritage. Minor stuff, really.

Hints of tribalism.
The material seems pretty uni-directional. In a history of slavery, you would expect emancipation to be covered, but it isn't; only about the people who didn't want emancipation to happen. So if you didn't know something about the subject to begin with, you would be left wondering how slavery was ended in the first place. In another piece, instead of celebrating the influence of American Black culture on the world, it instead complains about how other people are stealing it. Seems pretty negative. But I'm guessing that there were proably hundreds if not thousands of pieces submitted, so it appears to be an (possibly micro-aggressive) editorial decision by the publishers.

Other than that I don't really see anything worth complaining about. I found the material quite interesting.
If someone is feeling strongly about the articles, I'm guessing they suspect they will be used as an excuse for revanchism, which they quite conceivably could be. But that would hardly be the fault of the articles.
 
Last edited:
Whats the old adage about evil and good men again?

Simple fact of the matter.....EVERY ONE of the Founders is complicit in the atrocity of slavery. Yes, even Ben Franklin. They, as a group, drafted a document in which they proclaimed all men were created equal, and then in the same damned document, codified that some men werent equal.

They put the birth of the nation ahead of their alleged convictions, totally ignoring that by doing so, they had **** all over those alleged convictions to accomplish it.

Wrong.....

The slavery issue wasn't going to be settled at the time of our founding(common sense)

Independence had to happen first(hello)

It was what was going to be a baby step process


Slave Trade Act of 1794 - Wikipedia



 
Buy I thought only the great founders created a unique and magnanimous government capable of change which is why they deserve a mulligan for slavery? :shrug:



You're doing a bang up job of convincing everyone you're not some rage filled angry white guy. :thumbs:



Says who? Plenty of trafficked asians and Europeans as well. Slavery doesn't just happen in Africa now. It happens all over the world for illegal labor and the sex trade. Maybe that doesn't bother you, you seem to only get upset when someone disparages old dead white guys. :shrug:
EVERY nation practice slavery. They moved on. They dont have a bunch of morons in their country running around trying to turn their past into a cottage industry. They dont have a bunch of clowns 8-89 generations removed (or worse...idiots who's ancestry were never even a part of this countries slave history) pissing themselves in their victim-hood. They moved forward.

You are doing a bang up job of being yet another 9th generation victim.

And color me not shocked at your indifference and lack of knowledge and concern over both the victims and perpetrators of modern day slavery. It makes your pathetic poutrage over the founding fathers that much more impotent. Pity the slaves. They can look to their slavemasters for their condition. You? You only have that person staring back at you from the mirror with disgust too blame for yours.
 
EVERY nation practice slavery. They moved on. They dont have a bunch of morons in their country running around trying to turn their past into a cottage industry. They dont have a bunch of clowns 8-89 generations removed (or worse...idiots who's ancestry were never even a part of this countries slave history) pissing themselves in their victim-hood. They moved forward.

The only one carrying on like a victim in this thread is you. Have you read how angry your posts sound? The founders were hypocritical slave owners, I'm not sure why that fact fills you with so much rage. :shrug:


You are doing a bang up job of being yet another 9th generation victim.

How so? I'm stating a fact how does that make me a victim?

And color me not shocked at your indifference and lack of knowledge and concern over both the victims and perpetrators of modern day slavery. It makes your pathetic poutrage over the founding fathers that much more impotent. Pity the slaves. They can look to their slavemasters for their condition. You? You only have that person staring back at you from the mirror with disgust too blame for yours.

Can you find a quote of mine where I do any of that or are you just spouting off at the mouth because of the rage you feel over inconvenient facts. Why should the fact that the founders were a bunch of dirty slave owners upset you so much? :shrug:
 
Wrong.....

The slavery issue wasn't going to be settled at the time of our founding(common sense)

Independence had to happen first(hello)

It was what was going to be a baby step process


Slave Trade Act of 1794 - Wikipedia





Man, you are so bad at this...

Independence had already happened by the time the Constitution was drafted. That is your first mistake.

Your second one is the premise that even if your first mistake hadnt happened that it would somehow exonerate the Founders from the fact that they said one thing and did another.

Im gonna ask a simple question that has a simple answer that you will never give. In Jeopardy fashion, Im even gonna give you the answer and then the question....

Ill take Realities Of American History for 1000, Alex.

The answer is, No.

What is, Did the Founders follow through with the sentiment they wrote in the Constitution regarding all men being equal?

Also, regarding the slave trade act you brought up...I cant believe you are dense enough to believe that ending the importation of slaves made any difference when there was plenty of domestic supply by that point. I mean seriously.....when entire families were already sold into bondage, what did it matter? It was a never ending suppy of labor as long as the slaves kept having kids. Even if your personal slaves didnt have enough kids, its not like the slave trade act prevented you from just going down the road to another plantation and picking up the kids from someone who had an abundance of them, so there still wasnt a problem.

Simply put, that act didnt really matter in the grand scheme. It was cheaper to get a slave from another local plantation than import one from Africa anyway. That process would have probably ended without the act due to economics anyway.

What you call baby steps, most logical people call kicking the can down the road. The Founders basically punted on standing up for the words they wrote. No amount of handwringing on your part is gonna change that.
 
This whole thing can be summed up in a few simple questions:

1. Was the practice of slavery wrong? Not widely accepted. Wrong?

2. If you participate in an activity that is wrong, is it improper to say that you did something wrong?

3. If you say one thing and do another, are you by definiton a hypocrite?
 
Wrong.....

The slavery issue wasn't going to be settled at the time of our founding(common sense)

Independence had to happen first(hello)

It was what was going to be a baby step process


Slave Trade Act of 1794 - Wikipedia





Something just hit me about your take on slavery not ending at the time of our countries inception.

The issue of slavery was basically the lynchpin to the Constitution getting ratified by all the colonies, right? Had they tried to end slavery in the Constitution at that time, there probably wouldnt be a country as we know it, right?

With those things both being verifiably correct, heres the sticky wicket.....how then can anyone claim that this nation WASNT founded on blatant racism?
 
Something just hit me about your take on slavery not ending at the time of our countries inception.

The issue of slavery was basically the lynchpin to the Constitution getting ratified by all the colonies, right? Had they tried to end slavery in the Constitution at that time, there probably wouldnt be a country as we know it, right?

With those things both being verifiably correct, heres the sticky wicket.....how then can anyone claim that this nation WASNT founded on blatant racism?
30 years ago homosexuality was defined as a mental disorder. 10 years ago transgenderism was described as a mental disorder. Was the psychological and psychiatric community bigoted or operating with understood and accepted societal norms at the time?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
30 years ago homosexuality was defined as a mental disorder. 10 years ago transgenderism was described as a mental disorder. Was the psychological and psychiatric community bigoted or operating with understood and accepted societal norms at the time?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They were wrong. You keep conflating the idea of lots of people thinking something with the idea that that makes that something right.

It doesnt.

And dont think it goes unnoticed that you didnt even attempt to answer the question I asked. I know why...dont worry though, your secret is safe with me.
 
They were wrong. You keep conflating the idea of lots of people thinking something with the idea that that makes that something right.

It doesnt.

And dont think it goes unnoticed that you didnt even attempt to answer the question I asked. I know why...dont worry though, your secret is safe with me.

No one is suggesting slavery was ‘right’. It was just a widely practiced societal norm, something that has been practiced in every nation and culture across the globe. Fortunately...people have grown and developed over the course of time.

It’s lost on people like you that for all your ridiculous ‘woke’ ness...if you were alive 200 years ago it’s entirely likely you would have been a slave owner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
And dont think it goes unnoticed that you didnt even attempt to answer the question I asked. I know why...dont worry though, your secret is safe with me.
I answered your question...and you confirmed it. It doesn’t mean it was built on racism anymore so that the fields of psychology and psychiatry were built on bigotry. And of course...you know I answered the question and acknowledged the stupidity of your question IN YOUR ANSWER. Yet you cling to your ridiculous premise because...well...we both know why, don’t we and don’t worry...there is literally no secret to your ridiculous position.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
No one is suggesting slavery was ‘right’. It was just a widely practiced societal norm, something that has been practiced in every nation and culture across the globe. Fortunately...people have grown and developed over the course of time.

It’s lost on people like you that for all your ridiculous ‘woke’ ness...if you were alive 200 years ago it’s entirely likely you would have been a slave owner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Whats lost on people like you is that societal norms can still be wrong.

I have now multiple times told you that I understand 200 years ago any of us could and probably would have been slave holders. I followed it up with the fact that it doesnt change the fact that if someone today called me an asshole for it, they would be right. You seem to take offense to the fact that that is indeed a proper take on things.

Being inside of something sometimes prevents you from being able to recognize what it is you are a part of. That, however, is no defense for engaging in abhorrent behavior.
 
Have been reading the NYTimes special on slavery. Good stuff, though hard to accept as part of our history. Now I discover that while generally positively received on the left and the right, some conservatives are upset with it. I can understand differing with some of the opinions expressed, but the Times does us a great favor in highlighting what started 400 years ago this month. Can someone from the right explain why/how Gingrich and others are upset? Fine to differ with some opinions expressed in some articles, but attacking the paper for running it? Are their other "commemorations" out there from outlets perceived as conservative that have a different slant on the topic?

People need to be willing to learn -In sites like this most are not.... I know from experience in these types of web forums, people have not the stomach nor the mindset to learn "real truth", for some it would shatter their concepts that has been groomed by the promotion of white skin nationalism, and wealthy white skin male dominance, and it would uncover the truths that would for some be a shattering of their entire lives, which has been built up on this delusion of skin color superiority. It would expose the elements of basic and enhanced savagery conduct that has raged over centuries in America.
People generally come to these types of sites in pursuit of "drama antics", seeking something to contend, either its the ignorance of Party Consumed Political, that is driven to ignore the fact that regardless of party, "what affects American Governance and American Society Affects ALL of American Civic and Civil Systems within the nation.

The days of savage abuse of others for the sake of easing the burden of life on some based on their having white skin, has been a format of savagery, which has brought every kind and type of torment to the spectrum of human life, not only in America, but in every places it reaches and touches around the world.

People buy into the long history of white nationalism, where Radio and TV trained generations upon generations of 'how they should expect to live based on having white skin", and people could not and did not discern between human reality and media depictions. Today, when people can't create that fiction, they bully each other, and some succumb to being bullied, based on " a set of fictional parameter of self measure". some kill off the family, kids kill of other kids, and any type of madness and mayhem is spun in a web across society... because people were groomed, taught in schools and acted in general society based on a false paradigm, chasing a fictional narrative.

Every aspect of for example America Medicine, created volumes of documents based on 'experiments conducted on black people ( under the label of slavery)... many of the elements of modern day drugs, was and is based on core herbal elements gathered from around the world, and then 'hoarded for profit by pharma industry".
(During Vietnam war, for example, "poppy fields was off limits" for bombing raids, and the same has and is true today in Afghanistan, poppy fields are off limits for foreign weapons to damage.)

There is so much more that is to come forth which brings the truth to the surface and spread it across the world... "the real elements of history"... not the white sanitized versions that have deluded people for centuries and decades.

Ignore the Nay-Sayers and those whom come to the thread to deny, deflect and attack, because they do what they were trained to do, but what they were trained to do... can never "destroy real truth"...
 
No one is suggesting slavery was ‘right’. It was just a widely practiced societal norm, something that has been practiced in every nation and culture across the globe. Fortunately...people have grown and developed over the course of time.

It’s lost on people like you that for all your ridiculous ‘woke’ ness...if you were alive 200 years ago it’s entirely likely you would have been a slave owner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, you just suggested that we should cut them a break for allowing slavery because its what was going on at the time.

By that rationale, if enough people decided Jim Crow needed to return, it should be viewed in the future as not so bad because l, hey, its what was going on at the time and was the prevailing sentiment. You and I both know thats a total crock. Prevailing sentiment isnt what determines if something is right or wrong.
 
Whats lost on people like you is that societal norms can still be wrong.

I have now multiple times told you that I understand 200 years ago any of us could and probably would have been slave holders. I followed it up with the fact that it doesnt change the fact that if someone today called me an asshole for it, they would be right. You seem to take offense to the fact that that is indeed a proper take on things.

Being inside of something sometimes prevents you from being able to recognize what it is you are a part of. That, however, is no defense for engaging in abhorrent behavior.

:lamo

Holy ****. It’s like talking to a stump. I never said it wasn’t WRONG. In fact quite the opposite.

You haven’t told me **** because we haven’t conversed before. And seeing as how you keep regurgitating the same foolish lie, the likelihood of it happening much going forward is pretty comfortably low.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
:lamo

Holy ****. It’s like talking to a stump. I never said it wasn’t WRONG. In fact quite the opposite.

You haven’t told me **** because we haven’t conversed before. And seeing as how you keep regurgitating the same foolish lie, the likelihood of it happening much going forward is pretty comfortably low.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What lie?
 
Back
Top Bottom