Give a man a fish he eats for a day...

[Rucker61]

You like the idea that someday you might get the chance to live out your fantasies and get to shoot somebody someday

Hell you are so far gone that you fantasise that you already have! :mrgreen:

The only thing I want to shoot are more elk, starting in a couple of weeks.

 

[vegas giants]

again, the actual empirical data proves private citizens are less likely to shoot the WRONG Person and more LIKELY to hit the RIGHT target than cops. Me and my ten closest competitors in speed shooting in SWO shoot more in a year than the biggest police department in the state combined

Actually that is not true. CCW's seem to get arrested for crimes far far more than cops do....and you want them protecting our kids?

 

[vegas giants]

edify me of your knowledge of these subjects. So far if I were to hazard a guess about how much you know about firearms training for cops and others would be about zero

What would you like to know...I'll try to help

 

[Rucker61]

Actually that is not true. CCW's seem to get arrested for crimes far far more than cops do....and you want them protecting our kids?

Why don't cops get arrested that often?

 

[flogger]

Your stupid and idiotic attempts to insult those of us who don't wet our pants over the thought of private citizens owning guns, is just pathetic. You try to smear and denigrate those of us who don't suffer loss of bowel control around guns, because you are fearful of your fellow Brits owning firearms. Pretending that we own guns because we want to shoot someone shows how incredibly intellectually bankrupt your silly argument is

You are the quintessential gun nut on this sub forum so all reason is going to be automatically lost on you. Feel free to rant :wink:

 

[DA60]

I think this is simplified to the point of being absurd. As are many of the right-wing styled all-or-nothing, black/white styled worldviews.

In the modern world, most people, even if they don't admit it, divide responsibilities under are fairly civilized, legal framework and lifestyle in the U.S. The inanely high standard of living int he U.S. is a direct result of that. You could move into the wilds and live off the land, but one would argue that would be dramatically less efficient and a dramatically lower standard of living (to each his own, but you get the idea).

You do not build your home typically, you buy it from a builder.
You do not perform your own surgery, you buy that service from a credentialed physician.
You do not write all the software you use, you license it.
You do not grow all the food you consume, you buy it.

The notion that somehow you *should* provide your own personal protection, and not primarily rely on other people to provide it, based on a single phrase, seems absurd.

Why not list the pros/cons, it would at least seem more like you tried. I think in most cases, we do things we enjoy or are good at, and we try to outsource the rest.

Great post, IMO.

But come on now...there is no place for highly rational discussion on a chat forum. ESPECIALLY in a thread about guns.


BTW. it's funny how many people long to live off of the land. Right up until they develop a serious disease/injury and require advanced medical care...not just a bandage and some Robitussin.

Me?

My idea of roughing it is a modern RV with A/C but only 3G connectivity.

 

[TurtleDude]

Actually that is not true. CCW's seem to get arrested for crimes far far more than cops do....and you want them protecting our kids?

that's complete BS because there are far more CCW holders than cops and you are lying about the rate. and cops have more wrongful shootings per capita.

so stop trying to post stuff that is BS because I know the facts

 

[TurtleDude]

What would you like to know...I'll try to help

You have nothing in this area that could be of use to me. this is my area of professional expertise

 

[vegas giants]

that's complete BS because there are far more CCW holders than cops and you are lying about the rate. and cops have more wrongful shootings per capita.

so stop trying to post stuff that is BS because I know the facts

Is this how a case is made in court? LOL

Your honor we have facts not in evidence

 

[TurtleDude]

You are the quintessential gun nut on this sub forum so all reason is going to be automatically lost on you. Feel free to rant :wink:

that's funny coming from someone who is the epitome of the lesson contained in Aesop's tale about a fox that lost its tail

 

[vegas giants]

You have nothing in this area that could be of use to me. this is my area of professional expertise

Then you don't need my help. Good. LOL

 

[TurtleDude]

Is this how a case is made in court? LOL

Your honor we have facts not in evidence

your case would be hit by a rule 12 order so you'd never get into court

 

[vegas giants]

your case would be hit by a rule 12 order so you'd never get into court

I would file a "That is bull crap" motion that you are so fond of. LOL

 

[flogger]

that's funny coming from someone who is the epitome of the lesson contained in Aesop's tale about a fox that lost its tail

I'm a ex war veteren who doesn't want to kill anyone but you do and have even fantasised about having done so.

 

[Rucker61]

I'm a ex war veteren who doesn't want to kill anyone but you do and have even fantasised about having done so.

I'm amazed how comfortable you are just making **** up.

 

[TurtleDude]

I'm a ex war veteren who doesn't want to kill anyone but you do and have even fantasised about having done so.

More BS from a person whose views on our rights means nothing to us. Why so fixated on a country you don't matter in?

 

[AlbqOwl]

The problem with that idea is the frequency of need verses the cost. Why have a dedicated school police (defense?) officer that spends 99.9% of their time doing absolutely nothing of value? You could have a teacher (or other school staff member) with some armed defense training (getting a 5% pay boost for volunteering to do so?) that spends 99.9% of their time doing their normal job and still available on cite to provide armed defense if required.

That has been the position of most of the protect the schools group all the time. Probably one or more teachers already has a concealed carry permit, and I believe ALL states licensing for concealed carry do so on condition of a background check and that the license holder have some instruction and training in the safe use of their weapon. Offer that training to other teachers and allow those who are trained and willing to carry keep a weapon on their person or otherwise concealed in an inaccessible to the students place in their classroom.

I would venture that once it was common knowledge that at least some faculty and staff were armed at a school, it would be far less likely to be targeted for one of these sensational killings.

 

[vegas giants]

That has been the position of most of the protect the schools group all the time. Probably one or more teachers already has a concealed carry permit, and I believe ALL states licensing for concealed carry do so on condition of a background check and that the license holder have some instruction and training in the safe use of their weapon. Offer that training to other teachers and allow those who are trained and willing to carry keep a weapon on their person or otherwise concealed in an inaccessible to the students place in their classroom.

I would venture that once it was common knowledge that at least some faculty and staff were armed at a school, it would be far less likely to be targeted for one of these sensational killings.

Maybe we can teach high school dropouts to teach calculus. I mean why spend money on professionals?

 

[jaeger19]

That has been the position of most of the protect the schools group all the time. Probably one or more teachers already has a concealed carry permit, and I believe ALL states licensing for concealed carry do so on condition of a background check and that the license holder have some instruction and training in the safe use of their weapon. Offer that training to other teachers and allow those who are trained and willing to carry keep a weapon on their person or otherwise concealed in an inaccessible to the students place in their classroom.

I would venture that once it was common knowledge that at least some faculty and staff were armed at a school, it would be far less likely to be targeted for one of these sensational killings.

I think it makes a lot of sense. It appears to me that these killers want to engage in areas where they will have maximum time to commit their crimes.. and are seeking out areas where they know they won't be stopped by a citizen with a firearm.

 

[jaeger19]

Maybe we can teach high school dropouts to teach calculus. I mean why spend money on professionals?

Should only teachers with PH'd in math be allowed to teach calculus?

 

[vegas giants]

Should only teachers with PH'd in math be allowed to teach calculus?

No there should be a reasonable standard for professionals

 

[jaeger19]

I simply cannot understand the mindset that prefers that a child be exposed to deliberate aimed fire from a madman until the police than some minor risk of "cross fire" with a chance of stopping the shooter dead.

Quite frankly.. I would much rather have my Dad who was a school teacher and an avid firearms buff.. defend my son in his class.. than most of the police officers I know.. and I am a former reserve officer.

Oh the stories I could tell you about practice on the range.......

 

[jaeger19]

No there should be a reasonable standard for professionals

Right and a teacher in a class room can reasonably expected to defend her classroom against a madman with a firearm.. without causing any increase in danger to the children.

In fact.. in the classroom there is a better expectation because she knows who the perpetrator is.. while the policeman is walking into the school not knowing whether the persons running toward him are a threat or just scared teacher/staff/kids.

 

[vegas giants]

Right and a teacher in a class room can reasonably expected to defend her classroom against a madman with a firearm.. without causing any increase in danger to the children.

In fact.. in the classroom there is a better expectation because she knows who the perpetrator is.. while the policeman is walking into the school not knowing whether the persons running toward him are a threat or just scared teacher/staff/kids.

No the teach is not a professional cop. Sorry. And our cops know our kids

 

[jaeger19]

No the teach is not a professional cop. Sorry. And our cops know our kids

The teacher does not have to be a professional cop to be able to defend herself and her class room

Just as she doesn't have to be a phd to teach math effectively

and she doesn;t have to be a doctor to be able to administer CPR and first aid effectively.

And the cops responding to an active shooter don't know your kids..