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Germany just ban conversion therapy for minors

Barnacle said:
... and about time liberal Germany woke up to the fact that gay conversion therapy for minors is child abuse.
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Why, yes it is. I am sure that is one reason they did it.
 
Barnacle said:
... and about time liberal Germany woke up to the fact that gay conversion therapy for minors is child abuse.
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It surprises me to learn that it was allowed in Germany in the first place.
 
AmNat said:
So they don't actually have a problem with "conversion therapy" then.
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What are you talking about? Conversion therapy is psychological quackery, usually based on conservtive religious belief. It is banned because it is both dangerous and ineffective.
 
Lisa said:
What are you talking about? Conversion therapy is psychological quackery, usually based on conservtive religious belief. It is banned because it is both dangerous and ineffective.
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Do you or do you not object to attempts to change (or "confirm" if that's the current propaganda term) a child's gender? If you don't, then you have no problem with conversion therapy, but only with versions of it that promote normalcy.
 
AmNat said:
Do you or do you not object to attempts to change (or "confirm" if that's the current propaganda term) a child's gender? If you don't, then you have no problem with conversion therapy, but only with versions of it that promote normalcy.
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Conversion therapy is the opposite to what a transgendered person undergoes as part of their gender transition. Nobody is being converted when they are transgendered. That is the person living as who they are in their identified gender role and assisted with hormones to help their physical body match their psychological gender identity. There is ongoing psychological counseling to help them with any emotional issues that might be holding them back. The final step in the process is the gender surgery.

Conversion therapy is a claim that a person can become CIS or heterosexual if they are LGB with unproven psychotherapy. Conversion therapy claims that it can cure people of being LGBT but there is no proof of it and it is very harmful.
 
3leftsdoo said:
Er-oh.
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You should stick with stalking Greta and stay out of topics that you don't understand. Conversion therapy, like reparative therapy which tries too make LGBT heterosexual or CIS, is banned because it is both ineffectual and dangerous.
 
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Lisa said:
Conversion therapy is the opposite to what a transgendered person undergoes as part of their gender transition.
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It's literally the same thing, except that it promotes normalcy and doesn't involve bodily mutilation.
 
AmNat said:
It's literally the same thing, except that it promotes normalcy and doesn't involve bodily mutilation.
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You honestly think gender therapy means trying to change their gender identity without their consent?
 
AmNat said:
Do you or do you not object to attempts to change (or "confirm" if that's the current propaganda term) a child's gender? If you don't, then you have no problem with conversion therapy, but only with versions of it that promote normalcy.
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Incorrect, because you don’t understand the difference between the two.

The forcible “gay conversion therapy” is literally torturing a child, not a medical procedure.
 
AmNat said:
It's literally the same thing, except that it promotes normalcy and doesn't involve bodily mutilation.
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One is voluntary and involves doctors performing medical procedures.

The other gives children electroshock and other physical abuse.

You want to equate these two things? Go ahead. Tell us all how you think torturing children is a medical procedure.
 
AmNat said:
It's literally the same thing, except that it promotes normalcy and doesn't involve bodily mutilation.
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No, it isn't the same thing in any way. Transgender people being who they are isn't body mutilation. Conversion or reparative therapy tries to delude LGBT people into being someone who they are not.

Do you believe that if a transgender person will just stop being transgendered if they don't get the medical care that is needed?

What do yoou care that they are transgendred? Do you think they are asking for anything from you? Does the fact that they exist bother you?
 
AProudLefty said:
You honestly think gender therapy means trying to change their gender identity without their consent?
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Deuce said:
Incorrect, because you don’t understand the difference between the two.

The forcible “gay conversion therapy” is literally torturing a child, not a medical procedure.
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If a child can "consent" to changing their gender they can certainly consent to talk therapy.

Deuce said:
One is voluntary and involves doctors performing medical procedures.

The other gives children electroshock and other physical abuse.

You want to equate these two things? Go ahead. Tell us all how you think torturing children is a medical procedure.
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Are you under the impression that all "conversion therapy" involves electroshocks?

In any case, I'm pretty sure electroshock therapy on minors or incompetents is already illegal in most places without a court order.

Lisa said:
Does the fact that they exist bother you?
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The fact that people drug and mutilate children bothers me.
 
Lisa said:
What are you talking about? Conversion therapy is psychological quackery, usually based on conservtive religious belief. It is banned because it is both dangerous and ineffective.
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OK. Fair enough. But wouldn't that make gender reassignment surgery and hormonal treatment the same?

Lisa said:
You should stick with stalking Greta and stay out of topics that you don't understand. Conversion therapy, like reparative therapy which tries too make LGBT heterosexual or CIS, is banned because it is both ineffectual and dangerous.
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Study Shows Shocking Rates of Attempted Suicide Among ...
[url]https://www.hrc.org › blog › new-study-reveals-shocking-rates-of-attempte...[/URL]
Sep 12, 2018 - Harrowing statistics from a study revealed alarming levels of attempted suicide among transgender youth.

Attempted Suicide Rate for Multiracial Transgender People ...
[url]https://www.thetaskforce.org › attempted-suicide-rate-for-multiracial-trans...[/URL]
Attempted Suicide Rate for Multiracial Transgender People Thirty-three Times Higher than General Population. Racism and transphobia are deeply impacting ...

Transgender Adolescent Suicide Behavior | American ...
[url]https://pediatrics.aappublications.org › content[/URL]
by RB Toomey - ‎2018 - ‎Cited by 56 - ‎Related articles
Oct 1, 2018 - OBJECTIVES: Our primary objective was to examine prevalence rates of suicide behavior across 6 gender identity groups: female; male; ...
​

Doesn't the higher suicide rates of those that have gone through gender reassignment make that also dangerous?

Lisa said:
No, it isn't the same thing in any way. Transgender people being who they are isn't body mutilation.
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Err. Geneder reassignment surgery does appear to fall within the dictionary definition of mutilation.

mutilation noun
mu·​ti·​la·​tion | \ ˌmyü-tə-ˈlā-shən
plural mutilations

Definition of mutilation

1: an act or instance of destroying, removing, or severely damaging a limb or other body part of a person or animal the mutilation of a body They were men who had been sexually damaged by disease, accident, or deliberate mutilation.— James J. O'DonnellHis book contains very many gruesome accounts of murder and mutilation, and page after page describing torture in almost salacious detail.— Geoffrey Wheatcroft— see also FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION

2: an act or instance of damaging or altering something radically Evidence suggests that the mutilation of the sculptures was deliberate.Thus an author has the right of paternity (authorship) and integrity (the right to object to derogatory actions, distortion, mutilation or other modifications in relation to his or her work that would be prejudicial to the artist's honor or reputation).— Judith NiermanCritics described the proposed structure as a "vast pile of masonry" that they feared would never be removed and would become a "permanent mutilation of Hyde Park."— Henry Petroski
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If you cut off breasts or a penis and try to form some sort of working vagina, it is "removing, or severely damaging a limb or other body part" as well as "damaging or altering something radically", by definition.

Conversion or reparative therapy tries to delude LGBT people into being someone who they are not.
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How is this any different than gender reassignment surgery and hormone treatments? Is this not attempting to 'being someone who they are not' biologically not?

Do you believe that if a transgender person will just stop being transgendered if they don't get the medical care that is needed?

What do yoou care that they are transgendred? Do you think they are asking for anything from you? Does the fact that they exist bother you?
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"Does the fact that they exist bother you?"
No.

The fact that gender transitions are becoming 'fashionable' and a 'fad' and more popular, concerns me, especially when the results of transition appears to be regrets and a high suicide rate than the norm.

I further am concerned that this be prompted by 'awoke' parents and inflicted on their preadolescence children.
 
AmNat said:
If a child can "consent" to changing their gender they can certainly consent to talk therapy.
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There is no "changing" their gender. They were born with a gender identity. A gender conversion therapy would be trying to straightening up transgender children to normal sexes. If they have that, then you will have a point.

The fact that people drug and mutilate children bothers me.
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The fact that you believe that bothers me.
 
AmNat said:
If a child can "consent" to changing their gender they can certainly consent to talk therapy.
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Conversion therapy is not talk therapy. It is emotional abuse and usually done in groups as a way to shame them in front of others







The fact that people drug and mutilate children bothers me.
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Noobody is mutilating children when they are transgendered and more than an organ transplant is drugging and mutilating. You don't understand what a transgendered person feels and you don't believe that a person can be transgender, so you have created a strawman that transgendered therapy is mutilating a person against their will.
 
AProudLefty said:
There is no "changing" their gender.
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This is correct. One can add and remove parts, engage in make believe, etc. but your sex can't actually be changed.

They were born with a gender identity.
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No. They were born with a biological sex. Some people, sadly, experience delusional disorders (of largely unknown causation) which make them believe they're the opposite of what they actually are. Some children are unfortunate enough to have parents that either deliberately foster these delusions, or try to induce them for their own psychotic reasons. All of these people are unfortunate to live in a society where there delusions are promoted and celebrated by the culture and by medical personnel who should know better.

Lisa said:
Noobody is mutilating children when they are transgendered and more than an organ transplant is drugging and mutilating. You don't understand what a transgendered person feels and you don't believe that a person can be transgender, so you have created a strawman that transgendered therapy is mutilating a person against their will.
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Mutilation is literally what "gender transitioning" is. You denying this is only evidence of your own ideological dogmatism and ignorance.
 
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