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German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end? [W:539]

Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

Right, buyers, not slave masters. We are obliged to follow our interests. We are not forced to kneel.



That's one of Putin's talking points!

Putin wants to sew division between America and it's allies.

Are you a paid Russian troll?
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

You throw a lot of insults around yourself and your posts are full of ignorant statements. When people visited the DDR until the reunification with the Bundesrepublik, the small towns had not had a lick of paint since the days of the Third Reich and many ordinary workers did not have flushing toilets. The people were highly educated alright and everyone could speak Russian in Rostock.

My parents speak not a single word of russian, same counts for my grandparents.

You dont find amyn east germany who speak russian as 2nd language. It was taught at school and that was it. And yes, as i said Eastern Germany had it hasrh but was still higher standard than anywhere in the eastern block. They made the best out of a pathetic concept that is called communism.
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

That's one of Putin's talking points!

Putin wants to sew division between America and it's allies.

Are you a paid Russian troll?

You repeat the same things always after few rounds. Do you have a stroke? I advice you to take some Aspirin, which makes your blood more liquid and quickly call an ambulance.
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

You repeat the same things always after few rounds. Do you have a stroke? I advice you to take some Aspirin, which makes your blood more liquid and quickly call an ambulance.


I see you're avoiding the question. Did Putin train you to do that?

I think you being a paid Russian troll has a deep and profound impact on this pipeline discussion. Should we trust your opinion?
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

I see you're avoiding the question. Did Putin train you to do that?

I think you being a paid Russian troll has a deep and profound impact on this pipeline discussion. Should we trust your opinion?

Im east german dude. I dont need money or training to be anti USA. I see your country as a ignorant ****hole.

I live in the state where the pipeline ends "Mecklenburg-Vorpommern". Here thousands of jobs are bound on it.

The concept of german patriotism seems to make your mind blow.

As a german you dont need to be paid by russia to hate a country that tries to attack our freedom. In this case the USA.

I see russia as pathetic 3rd world country. And i see USA as a russia with more money.

I hope i have cleared your question. :)

You should read the party program of the AfD. We are for better relations with Russia for energy reasons and for more distance to USA for security reason.
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

My parents speak not a single word of russian, same counts for my grandparents.

You dont find amyn east germany who speak russian as 2nd language. It was taught at school and that was it. And yes, as i said Eastern Germany had it hasrh but was still higher standard than anywhere in the eastern block. They made the best out of a pathetic concept that is called communism.
To have a better economy in the eastern bloc is a low standard. The DDR was a police state like the rest of the Warsaw Pact countries under the thumb of Moscow.
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

To have a better economy in the eastern bloc is a low standard. The DDR was a police state like the rest of the Warsaw Pact countries under the thumb of Moscow.

Exactly and thanks for the brave east germans it had a revolution that wiped communism away.

And btw, we wont allow a new EU dictatorship here. East Germans have a very good sense for propaganda ****. The EU is ****.
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

Exactly and thanks for the brave east germans it had a revolution that wiped communism away.

And btw, we wont allow a new EU dictatorship here. East Germans have a very good sense for propaganda ****. The EU is ****.
East Germany fell because the Russians would not support the DDR government, not because of the bravery of German people. Your education is lacking.
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

Exactly and thanks for the brave east germans it had a revolution that wiped communism away.

And btw, we wont allow a new EU dictatorship here. East Germans have a very good sense for propaganda ****. The EU is ****.

The EU is a confederation. It couldn't be a dictatorship even if it wanted to. As to that so-called east German "revolution" it must have been an imaginary one, because the GDR fell in 1989 the same year the USSR fell. The Berlin wall was torn down by Moscow's command, not by anything the German people did.
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

East Germany fell because the Russians would not support the DDR government, not because of the bravery of German people. Your education is lacking.

The communist government was dead. Millions of people oppossed it, stormed ministries and even the STASI HQ. That was bravery.

Your education is lacking.
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

We let Henry Kissinger run Germany after the war. He was run out of Germany for being Jew, and we gave him like a 1/3rd of Germany to run.

I think you might be making some sort of reference to the Potsdam agreement and how Russia, France, Britain and the US post world war two administered different regions of Germany? You actally make a point that can be explained further at:The Quest for Peace: Henry A. Kissinger on Germany | American Diplomacy Est 1996.

Your comment sounds a bit overly generalized but I get your well intentioned point..but I am sure German people would also say they had a lot do with reforming or remodeling their country. I wouldn't give Henry K all the credit or suggest he ran the country. He had a lot to say about relations with ALL of Europe not just Germany during the Nixon era but Western Euro nations were not puppets of the US. They used their powers to achieve what was in their best interests.Konrad Adenhauer and Helmut Schmidt are two examples of very influential German leaders.
 
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Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

The EU is a confederation. It couldn't be a dictatorship even if it wanted to. As to that so-called east German "revolution" it must have been an imaginary one, because the GDR fell in 1989 the same year the USSR fell. The Berlin wall was torn down by Moscow's command, not by anything the German people did.

thats bull****. Since end of 1988 millions of east germans stormed the borders. Ripped down banners. Police did not follow orders of the communist dictatorship anymore.

The military did not follow orders anymore and let the people do.

We call this the East GErman revolution and see this as one of the greatest achievements for freedom that Germans fought for.

You can insult your own people, not mine.

Dont stick your nose into what matters for another nation.
 
The German - America relations are now at an absolute low and it will be interesting how things can return to normal.

Until 4 years ago Germany was US closest ally. As 2nd most powerful nation of the western block, the german american alliance was seen as crucial to solve many world conflicts and problems.

Since Trump this changed completly. The pipeline project Nordstream II now brings it into a formerly unknown level of hostility.

USA was the pipeline, which is completed by 97% to stop. USA claims it would make Germany dependend on russian gas. Which is not true, since Germany still would have evry option to buy from elswhere.

The fact is, USA wants to sell american LNG to Germany, which is 30% more expensive, must be liquified before transport with enormous energy consumption, shipped over the atlantic and needs also enormous energy consumption to be stored in Germany in special tanks. Getting gas from Russia through a pipeline is simply more cost effective and efficient.

Another factor is, that Germany doesnt really want depend on energy that could be cut off from Trump in his typical erratic behavior. In other words, USA under Trump are not seen as trustworthy enough to fullfill treaty obligations.

The biggest issue is, that it is absolute unacceptable for Germany to allow USA to hurt German freedom and souvereignity. It simply is not americas business with whome Germany makes energy deals with.

USA put sanctions against a swiss ship company that laid the pipes on the sea floor, which blocked finalisation of the construction. A russian ship now arrived here to complete the project and USA threatens now more sanctions, this time targeting even german officials and evry company involved in the project and it appears this threat was what crossed the red line.

Germany prepares to install the EU wide blocking statute, which means companies are banned to follow the american laws on European soil. On the same time Germany prepares EU counter sanctions to any american officials involved in this sanctions. This means US senators would be locked out of global payment systems, their assets frozen.

It is crucial for Germany to draw this red line, because if we follow through and bow the knee, we would be simply an american vasall. If you bend to blackmail once, you will be the eternal victim.

The strange effect this has in Germany is, that all parties, even the Greens unite behind the decission to completle the pipeline, no matter what. There was strong internal oppossition in the German government against the project. American blackmailing
changed that, since all parties from far right AfD to far left Die Linke unite behind it against an outside foe.

If you dont know it better you could think there are elements in the american government who follow Putins will.

The interesting thing is, how this will end. Because on this level its now a game of chicken. Germany can not stop the pipeline without losing face. So what we will most likely will see is a complete breakdown of relations or omehow both nations find a backdoor agreement, that the pipeline is completed and there will be solutions on other fields of disagreements.

Americanswho justify this entire thing i might remember one thing, would you accept that behavior yourself? if a foreign power tries to intervene in your internal matters? if you answer this with a no, then you know what your side should be.

Part of the problem with Germany is that Trump made a big deal out of NATO members paying up their share of the cost to continue NATO. They did not like having to meet their obligation. The US has been too willing to foot the bill for Europe on many financial issues and Trump brought that to an end. They will come around eventually but right before an election they are unlikely to do much, as a change in Presidents, particularly a weak one like Biden, would give them an opportunity to renegotiate their financial commitment. Of more simply put, just not pay their bills as they have done previously. Having allies doesn't mean we should pay the way for all of them to keep them. They need the US strategically and they should help pay the cost.
I don't care if you like Trump or not, what is right for America is the issue and we should not have to foot the bill for our allies who have gotten away with paying about half of their commitments to NATO as well as the UN.
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

The communist government was dead. Millions of people oppossed it, stormed ministries and even the STASI HQ. That was bravery.

Your education is lacking.
Germans tried that in 1953 and Russian tanks sent them home. Because of Perestroika, Russians would no longer force their client states to remain loyal and without the Red army for support, the DDR government lost all authority. Haben Sie eine Bibliothek in Rostock, ich wundere.
 
Part of the problem with Germany is that Trump made a big deal out of NATO members paying up their share of the cost to continue NATO. They did not like having to meet their obligation. The US has been too willing to foot the bill for Europe on many financial issues and Trump brought that to an end. They will come around eventually but right before an election they are unlikely to do much, as a change in Presidents, particularly a weak one like Biden, would give them an opportunity to renegotiate their financial commitment. Of more simply put, just not pay their bills as they have done previously. Having allies doesn't mean we should pay the way for all of them to keep them. They need the US strategically and they should help pay the cost.
I don't care if you like Trump or not, what is right for America is the issue and we should not have to foot the bill for our allies who have gotten away with paying about half of their commitments to NATO as well as the UN.
Unfortunately, you believe Donald Trump's misunderstanding of NATO members' obligations. There were no outstanding bills unpaid by European members. This is a fiction and showed a woeful ignorance about how NATO is financed. Donald Trump lost the respect Europeans had for the USA as an ally but a beneficial outcome is a renewed favoring of the Europeans to consider a non-NATO European military defense option.
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

1. Germany was at no point a 3rd world country. After the war infrastructure was badly damaged but people where as highly educated as before. Sanitary standards and knowledge was higher than rest of europe.
2. Marshal fund was in US interest. I feel zero gratitude towards that.
3. We dont renegotiate anything, we ignore Trump. We certainly dont sit at a table with a moron who throws insults around.

Do you honestly believe we sign deals that are bad for us?

You will ignore the US regarding trade deals at your own economy's peril.
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

You will ignore the US regarding trade deals at your own economy's peril.

Right now we do economical much better than USA. We dont have 40 million unemployed. We play our game very well.

USA is in a costly trade war with China and China buys less american. Boeing for example is dead in China. Germany fills that void. Its in german interest to use that conflict and side with no party. Stay neutral and cash in.

Beside that, we ignore Trump and make direct politics with individual governors, which works quite well so far.
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

Germans tried that in 1953 and Russian tanks sent them home. Because of Perestroika, Russians would no longer force their client states to remain loyal and without the Red army for support, the DDR government lost all authority. Haben Sie eine Bibliothek in Rostock, ich wundere.

1989 was not 1953. USSR was bancrupt and weak. The USSR was not capable to enforce its will on the warsaw block, people saw that.
 
Part of the problem with Germany is that Trump made a big deal out of NATO members paying up their share of the cost to continue NATO. They did not like having to meet their obligation. The US has been too willing to foot the bill for Europe on many financial issues and Trump brought that to an end. They will come around eventually but right before an election they are unlikely to do much, as a change in Presidents, particularly a weak one like Biden, would give them an opportunity to renegotiate their financial commitment. Of more simply put, just not pay their bills as they have done previously. Having allies doesn't mean we should pay the way for all of them to keep them. They need the US strategically and they should help pay the cost.
I don't care if you like Trump or not, what is right for America is the issue and we should not have to foot the bill for our allies who have gotten away with paying about half of their commitments to NATO as well as the UN.

Germany fullfills its NATO obligations. Are you able to show which obligation Germany doesnt fullfill? Show the specific paragraph that we do not fullfill.

You wont find it. You believe what your orange goon says.

For realty check, the NATO agreement from 2014 states, that the member nations achieve defense spending of 2% within 10 years. Which means we should achieve that in 2024.

Last time i checked we have not 2024.

There wont be any renegotiation. We have an agreement.

We dont need USA in any way and we already build up a paraleel structure.

In the end the question is, what will be best for Germany. If this alliance with USA becomes a burden, we should dissolve it.

All your Trump achieved so far is, that american companies are kicked out of german defense contracts.
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

Right now we do economical much better than USA. We dont have 40 million unemployed. We play our game very well.

USA is in a costly trade war with China and China buys less american. Boeing for example is dead in China. Germany fills that void. Its in german interest to use that conflict and side with no party. Stay neutral and cash in.

Beside that, we ignore Trump and make direct politics with individual governors, which works quite well so far.

Speaking of Airbus.

EU paid Airbus billions in illegal subsidies, WTO rules - BBC News

Enjoy the tariffs.
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

And the US pays Boeing billions as well.

Sent from my Honor 8X

Take it up with the WTO.

(Suggestion: Get facts before you do.)
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

The EU is a confederation. It couldn't be a dictatorship even if it wanted to. As to that so-called east German "revolution" it must have been an imaginary one, because the GDR fell in 1989 the same year the USSR fell. The Berlin wall was torn down by Moscow's command, not by anything the German people did.

I disagree with you there Glitch. The EU looks democratic but is a post democratic organisation .The 27 EU commissioners (commissars) get to decide the legislation that EU MPs vote on...the commissioners are appointed, not elected. In other words , the direction of travel of the EU is decided by bureaucrats, not the people. That explains why the EU was seen as aloof and out of touch with what people wanted...it even had the front to change from the EEC to the EU without asking the people.
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?



Why you dont post the WTO ruling that USA paid Boeing billions of illegal subsidies?

WTO says U.S. failed to halt state tax subsidy for Boeing - Reuters.

Enjoy the tariffs. :)

But you know what you will enjoy even more? EASA, the european flight agency issued that a software update for 737 MAX is not enough. We demand its fuselage changed. Which means Boeing wont get a certificate. We block their return to flight.



The market is harsh.

We already blocked Boeings planned merger with Embraer. We are on a very good way to kill Boeing and its enjoyable to watch.

Now that the flight market crashs, this all could very well mean the end of Boeing.

I hope those counter strikes were implemented in your rants :)

P.s.: Boeing sold more aircrafts to Europe than Airbus sold to USA. Boeing now lost the European market, since almost all european airlines witch to Airbus. Same counts for chinese airlines.

So you will enjoy the tariffs. Its the only thing you have left.


P.s.: Are you ok that we strike back and dont bend in any conflict regarding USA? Just out of interest because i want understand US way of thinking. Like when trump mae the steel tariffs and EU made counter tariffs targeting only products made in Trump states.

Trump is almost 4 years president now. Germany / EU fullfilled not a single of his demands but countered evry attack of him in same or bigger scale.

So from your point of view what did trump achieve so far by this trade war with us? It made our alliance breaking apart and life for your workers harder, because we dont buy american rpdoucts anymore, put tariffs in american products, kick american companies out of contracts here or do "weasel moves" like says 737 MAX gets no certificate, the Beoing - Embraer meger gets blocked ect.

Would like to understand if you hold Trump accountable for the hardships his tactics cause for american workers.
 
Re: German - American relations at breaking point because Nordstream II - How will this end?

Right now we do economical much better than USA. We dont have 40 million unemployed. We play our game very well.

USA is in a costly trade war with China and China buys less american. Boeing for example is dead in China. Germany fills that void. Its in german interest to use that conflict and side with no party. Stay neutral and cash in.

Beside that, we ignore Trump and make direct politics with individual governors, which works quite well so far.

The problem with that theory is that you need these countries to be doing economically well in order to buy over-priced German goods. That's why nations (like China, Germany, Japan) are at a disadvantage in any Global turn down, they are primarily exporters . Countries like the UK and US are not so export dependent so will probably not suffer as much, most of UK and US business is internal.
 
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