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which leads to a chain reaction. if zimmerman pushed Martin, then martin had the right to push him back....not knock him down and pound his head against the ground.
FL 776.041 para 2a
even if you are the aggressor you are legally authorized to use force, even deadly force if/when:
It was Zimmerman's defense that he was in such reasonable fear. and by being flat on his back with Martin on top of him, there was no reasonable means to escape.
I agree there.
agreed, but still, it would be zimmermans fault in the first place. Though, it would be ruthless and not respectable on martins part.
we could play the "whose fault was it in the first place" game all day long.
you could argue that if zimmerman had stayed in his car it never would have happened so it was his fault
you could argue that if trayvon had gone straight home from the store instead of wandering around it never would have happened, so it was his fault
you could argue that if zimmerman had sent his wife to the store instead of going himself it never would have happened
you could argue that if trayvon hadn't taken drugs to school, he'd have been home in miami-dade instead of at his father's girlfriend's house in sanford and it would never have happened, so it was his fault.
Hmm.... I didn't know about that law. Well, that changes things a bit.
that's why many people, myself included, think it is a bad law. under those provisions, you could chase someone down, attack them and then if it went badly for you, shoot them and then claim self-defense. which is what many people claim actually happened.
IMHO, based on evidence and witness testimony. I think it went down like this. ZImmerman saw martin and thought he looked suspicious (just like the other 47 or so black guys he thought looked suspicious). followed him in his car. trayvon noticed and ducked between the buildings and instead of going home decided, for some reason, to wait for zimmerman. zimmerman got out of his car to look for trayvon. they met up on the sidewalk and zimmerman asked trayvon what he was doing around there (as testified by W8). either out of fear or indignation, trayvon punched zimmerman in the face and knocked him down. adrenaline kicked in and he got on top of Z to continue the beatdown. Zimmerman panicked and thought Trayvon was going to beat him to death and shot him.
All is well in your account...accept Trayvon had time to get home.
He turned around to "confront" Zimmerman...
with his fists.
He attacked Zimmerman. The party responsible for the crime was Trayvon.
Zimmerman broke no laws. He tried to give police a better description and location and was going back to his truck. Remember his neighborhood had already been victimized twice. He is only guilty of a lesser charge in public opinion where evidence is irrelevant.
Only under very specific conditions such that he had retreated and indicated a willingness to end the fist fight and the person that he'd attacked reengaged..
this is true, but it has been my experience, and I fought a lot as a kid/teen, once you knock someone to the ground, most, if not all, of the fight goes out of them.Quite a bit. I've seen a number of real-life fights before and just because you have a boo-boo on your face and a small cut on the back of the head does not mean you are out.
>>>>
In that scenario, zimmerman wasn't an aggressor.
IMO this is shaping up just like OJ.
Douche did the crime. Douche got off. Douche ends up in jail anyway because he can't hide his douchiness forever.
that's why many people, myself included, think it is a bad law. under those provisions, you could chase someone down, attack them and then if it went badly for you, shoot them and then claim self-defense. which is what many people claim actually happened.
IMHO, based on evidence and witness testimony. I think it went down like this. ZImmerman saw martin and thought he looked suspicious (just like the other 47 or so black guys he thought looked suspicious). followed him in his car. trayvon noticed and ducked between the buildings and instead of going home decided, for some reason, to wait for zimmerman. zimmerman got out of his car to look for trayvon. they met up on the sidewalk and zimmerman asked trayvon what he was doing around there (as testified by W8). either out of fear or indignation, trayvon punched zimmerman in the face and knocked him down. adrenaline kicked in and he got on top of Z to continue the beatdown. Zimmerman panicked and thought Trayvon was going to beat him to death and shot him.
What is incredible is if you read my past posting history you would know I was big supporter of Martin in his right to stand his ground against a threat that was following him that night. But your own hatred towards white folks and conservatives in perticaular won't allow you to accept those terms.
So rant away.....and show the forum members what angry blackman sounds like.
Karma has a way of sorting all these things out equally.
My hatred towards white folks :lamo
You know that about me huh .. or is it the 'black' that's confusing you? :0)
This is going to be fun.
I'm sorry, I thought you were referring to me and my comment in your post. I've deleted my last post and I do apologize. I made a mistake.
dude never struck me as the sharpest knife in the drawer, but if anyone deserves to be paranoid about their interactions with the police, it's that guy (lol)
You scenario doesn't account for Martin being on the phone with Rachel during the event. Which phone records show he was. The idea that someone is going to wait in ambush for someone while holding a voice conversation over the phone is a little hard to believe.
An alternate scenario is that after attempting to evade the weird dude in the pickup truck that was following him around the complex (once by walking away from the clubhouse and the second by running away from the vehicle), Martin ran behind the buildings and having broken visual contact thought that was the end of it. So while on the phone with his female friend he's telling her what was going on. Zimmerman having exited the vehicle began his search and found Martin in the rear of the building. Martin attempts to leave again and drops his phone as Zimmerman grabs him and saying he's not going anywhere. Martin surprises Zimmerman buy fighting back and Martin gets a good shot into Zimmerman's face.
That of course is just another hypothetical. Since Zimmerman is the survivor, his story is the only one we hear as to how it actually started.
>>>>
More precisely conservatives you hate......being white is just icing on the cake.
The question is....do you know any conservatives? Or are you just echoing the left-wing extremist propaganda.
:0) Now we bounce from 'white folks' to conservatives.
I not only know conservatives .. and have most of my life, I've often worked with them writing legislation. Electronic voting is an example.
One of my civil rights heroes was Senator Everett Dirksen, a conservative from Illinois .. and I can argue and state absolutely glowing things about George W. Bush .. who walked into the White House door and proclaimed that he was going to do something about AIDS . against the wishes of many in his own party .. and he did it. He saved more than a million lives throughout the world, most specifically, Africa .. which is not to suggest that the blood of Iraq isn't still on his hands.
Surely you can run along and find yourself someone easier to debate. :0)
I'm betting that just about everybody on this board .. which I'm new to .. who supports George Zimmerman and stand your ground laws, are republican/teabagger/conservative/right winger/just hates black people. Most all fall somewhere in that mix.
I have no illusion that I possess the power to change anyone's mind about anything .. thus, how you interpret stand your ground is purely up to you .. interpret them anyway you choose. But for me, they represent an evil reminiscent of America's ****-stained racist past. I equate the murder of Trayvon Martin to that of Emmitt Till .. reinforced the further murder of an innocent woman stranded by car problems.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...-again-central-florida-18.html#post1062563724
I think this post says it all
The hatred shows through whether that was intended or not is irrelevant.
But continue behaving like an angry blackman and hide behind the color of your skin.
It's safer that way.......
yes, I guess we can all now agree that Martin picked the wrong guy to jump on that night. I guess the lesson learned is that people are crazy so best not to start physical altercations with people because.......well, they might be crazy enough to shoot and kill you.
agreed?
Why? They defended him when he killed someone. Why wouldn't they defend him now?
yes, I guess we can all now agree that Martin picked the wrong guy to jump on that night.EVEN if you feel the guy is "racially profiling" you. Just move on. No need to lose your life over that.I guess the lesson learned is that people are crazy, so best not to start a physical altercations with a stranger(for WHATEVER REASON).......because well, they might be crazy enough to shoot and kill you.
agreed?
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