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Gay dads' brains show activity akin to both parents': study


I wondered if anyone would pick up on the normative role part. What type of child rearing, correctly brings up a person that fits into current social standards or the ability to thrive in certain roles of civilization? Meaning the typical- two parent, male/female dynamic doesn't necessitate the only way children can be raised successfully to survive. Single parents, hetero parents or gay parents are probably not as any particular group going to be better qualified than another, based on their orientation or companionship, rather more on their personality.

I think there was a time when children raised in homes with more family members in supportive role positions and financially capabilities were a benefit. But someones orientation or marriage status isn't as important a factor as providing a caring environment with positive reinforcements.
 

I know exactly what you mean. It was the same where i grew up. I was pretty much run outta town. However, it's clear to even the dumber than dirt bullies that no one can help who their parents are and it seems like every teenager is embarrassed of their parents in some way. It wouldn't be brought up much imo.

You get bullied if you personally give off the impression of being 'weird', as it's a constant reminder. Of course if you were raised by gay parents and thus became outspoken about gay rights in a ghetto town, i'm sure you'd never hear the end of it then.

I just didn't know if you had considered the benefits. It also helps to clarify. I like to throw in "aside from cities and college towns" to acknowledge that this is a non issue to most people now, but also remind those people that extreme homophobia is still a problem in small towns across the country. Generalizing of course but i think you'd agree.
 

That will be a very interesting day for sure.
 

It's all stuff i've read that i don't necessarily keep saved, but there are so many by now so just quickly: "Differences in brain structure that come about from hormones and genes interacting on developing brain cells are believed to be the basis of sex differences in countless behaviors, including sexual orientation" (Garcia-Falgueras, Alicia, & Swaab, Dick F., Sexual Hormones and the Brain, op. cit., p. 24.)

"This hypothesis is originated from countless experimental studies in non-human mammals" (http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.tics.2010.07.005)

"Garcia-Falgueras and Dick Swaab (2010) disagree that social conditions influence sexual orientation to a large degree. As seen in young children as well as in vervet and rhesus monkeys, sexually differentiated behavior in toy preference...these preferences can be seen as early as 3–8 months in humans" (http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.yfrne.2011.02.007)

The 2nd link claims it's early as week 8 in pregnancy that those hormone differences occur
 
Lursa said:
Anyway, I wasnt aware that they had identified the hormones...do you have any links that show they believe it's estrogen? I understand that you said it's still being researched.
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Sorry i forgot to answer the estrogen part specifically but it's the same study (1st one i cited)

"the authors say that sexual organs are differentiated first, and then the brain is sexually differentiated "under the influence, mainly, of sex hormones such as testosterone, estrogen and progesterone on the developing brain cells and under the presence of different genes as well . . . . The changes brought about in this [p. 24:] stage are permanent. . . . "

There's also interesting theories of other in utero factors like enlarged hypothalamus, birth order (more older brothers), being right handed
 
chromium said:
I dunno, what do you think would come of it?
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Well first of all, it's not going to be possible. But let's suppose that it was. Then you could test for criminal behavior like murder. You could test for intelligence. So you could then quarantine or imprison people a priori. Train people for careers a priori.
 

They tried that in the past, basing it on body types that are more prone to commit crimes. It failed because of the obvious, not everyone who is more prone than normal to do something or be a certain way will do it or be that way. That is one reason that most researchers in this area agree that it is a combination of nurture and nature that leads to our personality traits. The thing they tend to disagree on is the actual balance or amount of either one that contributes to each individual trait.
 

I wasn't aware that was actually tried. And your response was right on mark. That's why it's not possible. Even if it were possible to test for some predisposition, it would be limited to biological factors at most. But there are also other things like environment and choice, or free will.
 

Sorry but you're totally off the mark with such analogy. If there is predisposition to acts like murder, that's all it is. Perhaps in the distant future they will be able to know someone is "55% likely to commit murder" and just lock them up like you say, but there's obvious environment factors.

That's totally different from traits we are born with. If someone is born autistic, i don't see why that couldn't be determined before birth. For example, i was born allergic to certain things, eye color, handedness etc. There was no choice involved.
 

First of all, you or no one else has been able to conclusively demonstrate that people are born autistic. So that's a flaw. But that aside, because I really don't want to waste time on that, engagement in sexual activity is a choice. Not only that but it is something that is affected by conditioning. That is not to say that persons are NOT born with innate behavior that makes them more or less inclined towards homosexual activity, because that is definitely the case. However, sexuality can be affected by environment and conditioning, and this can be very easily demonstrated by noting that it is not uncommon for persons, who enter the prison system that have previously engaged in strictly heterosexual sex activity, leave the prison system and engage in strictly homosexual sexual activity. That is a fact.
 

Actually, there is plenty of evidence to show that yes people are born more or less inclined toward sexual activity with a person of a particular sex. Sexuality is determined by both nature and nurture, including some genes having some influence on this.

There is a difference between participating in same sex sexual relationships and being homosexual. Sexuality is about attraction, not actions/behavior. That prisoner who had sex with a person of the same sex in prison is most likely going to have relationships with the opposite sex once released if they are heterosexual. It is how people can be homosexual and still enter into opposite sex marriages for a good portion of their life.
 

I do not dispute that people are born with a predisposition to have sex with people of a particular sex. It is there in varying degrees. However, you are wrong if you believe that sexual preference is not affected by conditioning. And the example I gave demonstrates that.
 

No, it doesn't demonstrate that at all. In fact, most men and women in prison, despite popular belief do not engage in same sex sexual activities, with the possible exception of those who have LWOP because they aren't likely to get out to have sex with women.

Just Detention International

EFFECTS OF LONG TERM INCARCERATION

Your assumptions on prisoners turning gay is simply unfounded. Most do not "turn" gay at all, even when they engage in same sex sexual relations while in prison.
 

I really don't want to hear it because I have seen it happen to people. Black males in particular have a very high incarceration rate. Not only do I say it, but people have looked at particular cases and found it to be true.

roguenuke said:
Your assumptions on prisoners turning gay is simply unfounded. Most do not "turn" gay at all, even when they engage in same sex sexual relations while in prison.
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Your assumptions on turning gay are unfounded. People do not turn gay. What you have is varying degrees of preference or repulsion for a particular behavior, and it is something that can be affected by environment and conditioning. The results will vary depending on the nature of what is there to start with.
 
grip said:
This article makes the claim that "gay men" are more attuned parents than either sex of the heterosexual alone. Interesting?
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NOt really its closer to BS
 

Most do not even appear to "turn" gay. Those that might appear to do so have simply started from a more bisexual sexuality than they were aware.

As for you seeing it, it wasn't them becoming gay. Engaging in same sex sexual relations is not "gay". It is merely engaging in same sex sexual relations. Being gay/homosexual means actually being attracted to members of the same sex, not just choosing to have relationships with them. And I've provided research to back up what I've said. In some ways, it does depend on the specific prison environment.
 
votemout said:
NOt really its closer to BS
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It's possible to some small degree, though I don't see how this could be accurately measured. Or by what standards they're using as a model for comparison?
 
roguenuke said:
Most do not even appear to "turn" gay. Those that might appear to do so have simply started from a more bisexual sexuality than they were aware.
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Your position is contradictory. You want to say that sexuality is a matter of what you are attracted to, but at the same time you want to say people have attraction that they are not aware of. When you are attracted to something you know it.


People sometimes come to be disposed to sexual activity that they may previously had a repulsion for through conditioning and vice versa.
 

They are not contradictory. They can have attractions that they may not have been aware of or, more likely, were denying but that were there. Their activities however do not indicate their actual attractions. The most telling evidence of prison not turning people gay or even bi is the fact that the vast majority of those who are proclaimed heterosexuals going into prison who are released from prison will go back into heterosexual relationships, longterm or just sexual after their release, even if they engaged in a good deal of same sex sexual activity while in prison.
 
roguenuke said:
They are not contradictory. They can have attractions that they may not have been aware of or, more likely, were denying but that were there. Their activities however do not indicate their actual attractions.
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People know what they are attracted to. And you said that they have an attraction that they are not aware of. If that is indeed the case, then sexuality, at the very least, is more than a matter of what you are attracted to, because you can't say someone is attracted to something, until they are aware of it.


The most telling evidence is people who enter the prison system not having engaged in homosexual activity, nor have demonstrated a desire to engage in it, who leave it, definitely engaging in such activity. It shows that conditioning, plays a factor, although there is much more to it than that.
 

Yes the activity, just as homosexuals like my uncle can engage in hetero sex, is largely a choice. This is however referring to extremes where the opposite sex is absent, like in prison, or gay behavior being so stigmatized and hetero relationships being the only way to have kids (like for my uncle back then). That's not "conditioning" either but lack of other options. Those prisoners still are attracted to opposite sex and will go right back to sex with women after release, and my uncle was gay the whole time and is now living with a male partner now that his kids grew up and moved out. Orientation/sexuality doesn't change, only behavior can.

I was always referring to the orientation. Who we're naturally attracted to under normal conditions is not the same as our behavior in long term isolation like prison or military. Even then, it's equally obvious that not everyone in prison will resort to homo sex and not every gay person is able to get busy with the opposite sex. I'd like to hear your explanation for that if orientation isn't distinct from behavior.

We can argue about this all day, but i can assure you that handedness, eye color, race, orientation so on are not like being born with a propensity for violence, which will clearly waiver with one's upbringing, local environment, brain injury like frontal lobe, risk of getting caught and access to weapons, poverty etc.
 

Some don't go back to having heterosexual relationships, that is a fact.
 

Yes you can. It's called denial. Gay attractions can be very confusing at first, because it's drilled into us that male/female go together.
 
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