teamosil
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2009
- Messages
- 6,623
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- San Francisco
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- Political Leaning
- Liberal
why is it moronic to post facts?
Liberalism hasn't changed diffinition.
So . . . you're saying Obama basically wants to destroy what business owners do?
No. I'm saying the OP tells us nothing we couldn't have guessed at.
And by the way, Lincoln didn't want to destroy Plantations. The Plantation owners, on the other hand, sure as hell didn't want to provide wages to the people picking their frickin' cotton.
Didn't "business owners" cause the 2008 recession that everyone has been so upset about?
I'm not sure why these polls are meaningful. Nobody has any sense of accountability, there's little personal stake in having an opinion, and few people have a developed understanding of why events unfold the way they do anyway.
Not a surprise at all. Romney's policies tend to favor people who own, Obama's tend to favor people who work. Somebody can both work and own of course, but most people are one or the other.
Liberalism hasn't changed diffinition. It still means what it alway meant.
No, it doesn't. No. It doesn't.
New to politics? Liberalism has certainly changed definition. Modern liberalism or otherwise known as progressivism resembles almost nothing of classic liberalism which was heavily based on personal liberties. Again, huge swaths of both ideologies are actually statists.
Sure it does. It has a definition. Same as it always was. If someone isn't that definition, they are not liberal. They are something else.
Oh, yeah -- today's "liberals" are all over limited government, constitutionalism, the primacy of the individual over the state, etc., etc. They're all steeped in Locke, Mill, Smith, and Hayek and Friedman are, like, totally their heroes.
Civil rights was a liberal idea.
Equal rights for women a liberal idea.
The Magna Carta was liberal for it's time, and it played a lot in the making of this country.
The words all men are created equal was liberla for its time.
So exactly what do you mean that liberalism has always failed, and what evidence do you have?
The idea that "most" business owners don't work is so laughably stupid, there isn't any other way to describe it.
Yeah, as liberal, I don't want government in my bedroom. I don't want them defining marriage for me. I don't want them ease dropping on my phone calls, or seeing my reading habits at the library. I don't want government torturing in my name.
lib·er·al
[lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl] Show IPA
adjective
1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. ( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
Liberal | Define Liberal at Dictionary.com
Sorry, I wasn't being clear. Yes, probably most owners do work. I meant most don't work at the company they own. In fact, I'd wager that most business owners can't name most the companies they own share of.
Yeah, and today's conservatives raised taxes, bloated the national debt, made the gubbamint biggah, want to change the constitution and brought on the Patriot Act.Oh, yeah -- today's "liberals" are all over limited government, constitutionalism, the primacy of the individual over the state, etc., etc. They're all steeped in Locke, Mill, Smith, and Hayek and Friedman are, like, totally their heroes.
Yeah, as liberal, I don't want government in my bedroom. I don't want them defining marriage for me. I don't want them ease dropping on my phone calls, or seeing my reading habits at the library. I don't want government torturing in my name. yes, liberal means what it always meant. Agian, anyone or anything not fitting the definition of the word, is something else.
lib·er·al
[lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl] Show IPA
adjective
1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. ( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
Liberal | Define Liberal at Dictionary.com
Yeah, and today's conservatives raised taxes, bloated the national debt, made the gubbamint biggah, want to change the constitution and brought on the Patriot Act.
You're going to employ singular examples to prove that liberalism has always failed? In light of that absurd thought process, I suppose one could readily invoke Mississippi as irrefutable evidence of the total and utter failure that is modern conservatism?Look no further than California and many other liberal states and cities.
Sorry, I wasn't being clear. Yes, probably most owners do work. I meant most don't work at the company they own. In fact, I'd wager that most business owners can't name most the companies they own share of.
Yeah, and today's conservatives raised taxes, bloated the national debt, made the gubbamint biggah, want to change the constitution and brought on the Patriot Act.
That's even more stupid than what you said originally.
You'd lose your ass on that wager. You're telling me the restaurant owner doesn't know the name of his restaurant? The general contractor? The landscaper? The store owner? The small granite manufacturing co? The bait shop? Etc, etc, etc.
Small firms w/ less than 500 employees represent 99.9% of all business in the US according to the Small Business Administration.
How so kiddo? Hedge funds, mutual funds, and retirement funds don't notify their customers when they buy and sell shares of companies. Even those few that do bother to do so, say quarterly, it isn't like anybody reads those things, let alone memorizes them...
Those aren't the "business owners" in question. They aren't even "business owners" in that sense; they're stockholders. "If you have a business," is what Obama said. And the survey respondents listed were people who actually own and run their own businesses.
That you have to present it in such a preposterously dishonest way speaks volumes.
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