Future EU enlargment ?

[jschie]

And considering the way the Turks treat the Kurds, I would say you have a long way to come before you're on the same human rights level that the EU is.

Considering the way UK treated North-Ireland is not very different...

I don´t wana say with that, that the UK do not have a human right level, but also I don´t wana say, that Turkey have no human right level.
Separation with underground armees are everytime a human rights problem.

 

[Rainman05]

I would like the EU to go the way of the dodo bird... so I see no point in making it larger by adding any country.

However, strictly speaking, Turkey is not a European nation. It is not in Europe.

If the capital of Turkey had been Istanbul, then it may have been debatable, but it isn't. The largest part of Turkey, over 99%, is in Asia minor, and the capital city is also there.

 

[Medusa]

I would like the EU to go the way of the dodo bird... so I see no point in making it larger by adding any country.

However, strictly speaking, Turkey is not a European nation. It is not in Europe.

If the capital of Turkey had been Istanbul, then it may have been debatable, but it isn't. The largest part of Turkey, over 99%, is in Asia minor, and the capital city is also there.

mamma mia li turchia .


haha

 

[Rainman05]

Geographically? What is Europe geographically? It is not a true continent in a scientific sense. It's identity resides on culture, going back to the east-west clash of civilisations model in ancient times.
.

We know where asia minor and asia and africa start. That is where Europe ends geographically.

 

[Medusa]

turkey is stronger than many little european countries and we dont need any two faced imperial union.............

turkish army is stronger than many big! european countries' armies!!
of course some people know it but thats why they get jealous..

 

[Rainman05]

turkey is stronger than many little european countries and we dont need any two faced imperial union.............

turkish army is stronger than many big! european countries' armies!!
of course some people know it but thats why they get jealous..

They why are you so desperately trying to legitimize turkey as being part of Europe if you are so strong and powerful and good and honest and all those good things. It seems to me that you should seek better friends and allies not us 2-faced, imperliastic, weak, small army nations and people.

 

[jschie]

We know where asia minor and asia and africa start. That is where Europe ends geographically.

Geographical: Yes
Culturel: No

The EU have lots of outer-europe dependancies.
Réunion, Canaria Islands, Ceuta, Melilla -> Africa
Guadeloupe, Martinique -> Middle America
French Guayana -> South America
Cypres -> Asia

Israel is culturel placed to Europe (but not a EU member), also Siberia or Georgian Republic -> all in Asia

If You look on a world-map you can´t say exactly where Europe ends and where Asia begins.
In reallity there is just one continent, that´s Eurasia.

The Oriental and Europe have sometimes the same roots.
Also today.

 

[Ben K.]

We know where asia minor and asia and africa start. That is where Europe ends geographically.

Which is an entirely grecocentric concept, having nothing to do with geography which deals in continental plates.

It's all moot anyway, Turkey and various other "Asian" nations are in the Council of "Europe" already.

 

[Rainman05]

Geographical: Yes
Culturel: No

The EU have lots of outer-europe dependancies.
Réunion, Canaria Islands, Ceuta, Melilla -> Africa
Guadeloupe, Martinique -> Middle America
French Guayana -> South America
Cypres -> Asia

Israel is culturel placed to Europe (but not a EU member), also Siberia or Georgian Republic -> all in Asia

If You look on a world-map you can´t say exactly where Europe ends and where Asia begins.
In reallity there is just one continent, that´s Eurasia.

We are talking geographically... which you have contested. The fact that several European nations have dependencies elsewhere... fine. That's political. Not geopgraphical.

To make an example. The Falklands is part of the UK which means it is part of the EU politically. Geographically it is part of South American or Oceania if you want to put it like that or however, but not Europe. If it were an independent nation, this discussion would be irrelevant. Like the falklands, so fall all the other dependencies you wrote about. They are part of European nations, they are part of the EU, but they are not part of Europe (geographically). Very simple. If Gauyana would be an independent nation, this discussion would be quite irrelevant wouldn't it be?

And Cyprus is an island. Its debatable whether it is truly part of Asia or Europe from a geographic perspective, but culturally, it is very much European since its people are mostly Greek .

 

[Ben K.]

turkey is stronger than many little european countries and we dont need any two faced imperial union.............

turkish army is stronger than many big! european countries' armies!!
of course some people know it but thats why they get jealous..

Pity you didn't save the Bosnians with that massive army.

 

[Rainman05]

Which is an entirely grecocentric concept, having nothing to do with geography which deals in continental plates.

It's all moot anyway, Turkey and various other "Asian" nations are in the Council of "Europe" already.

The US and Japan are observers there too... so what?

Bah, it doesn't make a difference.

Turkey is also a collaborate nation of the European Space Agency (not a full member, but not innexistent, somewhere in between) which is not an EU project, but there are non-EU and non European nations participating there to some degree, either as full members or collaborators... or free loaders. It doesn't make a nation anymore European than putting a fish in a kennel makes it a dog.

 

[jschie]

We are talking geographically... which you have contested. The fact that several European nations have dependencies elsewhere... fine. That's political. Not geopgraphical.

To make an example. The Falklands is part of the UK which means it is part of the EU politically. Geographically it is part of South American or Oceania if you want to put it like that or however, but not Europe. If it were an independent nation, this discussion would be irrelevant. Like the falklands, so fall all the other dependencies you wrote about. They are part of European nations, they are part of the EU, but they are not part of Europe (geographically). Very simple. If Gauyana would be an independent nation, this discussion would be quite irrelevant wouldn't it be?

And Cyprus is an island. Its debatable whether it is truly part of Asia or Europe from a geographic perspective, but culturally, it is very much European since its people are mostly Greek .

The EU is a political union, not a geographical union.

Hungarians and Bulgarians came from eurasia. The Proto-Bulgarians were Turks...

The Falklands are not a part of the EU. They are a crown colonie. Her Majesty never entered the EU with any Territory.

Guadeloupe, Martinique and French Guayana voted to be a inseparably part of France. And so they got the same rights as every French people and got a part of the French motherland.

 

[Medusa]

Pity you didn't save the Bosnians with that massive army.

true ,because , we are not world power .....


but europeans claim to be more democratic than the other "miserable " third world countries

but it is a fake democracy which ignores bosnians but pretends to like kurds


their democracy should have won every kind of army...

 

[soguks]

We are talking geographically... which you have contested. The fact that several European nations have dependencies elsewhere... fine. That's political. Not geopgraphical.

To make an example. The Falklands is part of the UK which means it is part of the EU politically. Geographically it is part of South American or Oceania if you want to put it like that or however, but not Europe. If it were an independent nation, this discussion would be irrelevant. Like the falklands, so fall all the other dependencies you wrote about. They are part of European nations, they are part of the EU, but they are not part of Europe (geographically). Very simple. If Gauyana would be an independent nation, this discussion would be quite irrelevant wouldn't it be?

And Cyprus is an island. Its debatable whether it is truly part of Asia or Europe from a geographic perspective, but culturally, it is very much European since its people are mostly Greek .

you are contradicting yourself in each of your comments; the island of cyprus is not the part of Europe; so there is no debate about it; if there is, then share it; otherwise you seem dishonest and not cohesive, as i said; if the people on that island are of people in the europe, then you consider Australians as Europeans, which is another contradiction in your comments, so please decide what you think; otherwise others would sink with you in your whirlpool.

@Ben K.

is it Turkey's shame or european countries'? for example, holland soldiers did turn blind eye and let serbs kill Bosniaks, and the same holland did give medals to those soldier for their courage in that war.

 

[Rainman05]

The EU is a political union, not a geographical union.

Hungarians and Bulgarians came from eurasia. The Proto-Bulgarians were Turks...

Do they live in Asia? No, they live in Europe and have so for centuries.

 

[Rainman05]

you are contradicting yourself in each of your comments; the island of cyprus is not the part of Europe; so there is no debate about it; if there is, then share it; otherwise you seem dishonest and not cohesive, as i said; if the people on that island are of people in the europe, then you consider Australians as Europeans, which is another contradiction in your comments, so please decide what you think; otherwise others would sink with you in your whirlpool.

@Ben K.

is it Turkey's shame or european countries'? for example, holland soldiers did turn blind eye and let serbs kill Bosniaks, and the same holland did give medals to those soldier for their courage in that war.

If you read carefully, I make a difference between politically being part of something, or geographically.

 

[Medusa]

They why are you so desperately trying to legitimize turkey as being part of Europe if you are so strong and powerful and good and honest and all those good things. It seems to me that you should seek better friends and allies not us 2-faced, imperliastic, weak, small army nations and people.

believe me if l were the prime minister ,l would try to be part of socialistic movements!!

 

[soguks]

If you read carefully, I make a difference between politically being part of something, or geographically.

unlike you, i do not waste my time with words; i try to understand the mentality behind it; and your mentality is just of ego centered one, sorry.

 

[Medusa]

Do they live in Asia? No, they live in Europe and have so for centuries.

istanbul is in europe too ,stop being a racist..

rainman ,romania is too small to be imperialist

dont get offended by my words!!

 

[Ben K.]

@Ben K.

is it Turkey's shame or european countries'? for example, holland soldiers did turn blind eye and let serbs kill Bosniaks, and the same holland did give medals to those soldier for their courage in that war.

Both Europe and Turkey. You had the ability to intervene at a much earlier stage, but turned a blind eye as the Euro's did. You do have the largest army in NATO after the Americans afterall.

 

[Ben K.]

The US and Japan are observers there too... so what?

Bah, it doesn't make a difference.

Turkey is also a collaborate nation of the European Space Agency (not a full member, but not innexistent, somewhere in between) which is not an EU project, but there are non-EU and non European nations participating there to some degree, either as full members or collaborators... or free loaders. It doesn't make a nation anymore European than putting a fish in a kennel makes it a dog.

But Turkey is a full member of the CoE.

 

[Rainman05]

unlike you, i do not waste my time with words; i try to understand the mentality behind it; and your mentality is just of ego centered one, sorry.

That seems to be a commonality between most of the poor debaters on this forum. Instead of trying to understand what is what, they make up preconceptions based on what they think the other guy meant instead of just taking what they wrote and start from there. You sir, are a very poor debater.

 

[soguks]

Both Europe and Turkey. You had the ability to intervene at a much earlier stage, but turned a blind eye as the Euro's did. You do have the largest army in NATO after the Americans afterall.

you are wrong, because at that time Russia and Greece were helping serbs to kill more muslims; those countries were at the same time supporting terrorism in Turkey just they did at Azerbaijan and Armenia war; so Turkey could not give hand to Bosniaks due to Russian muscle and Greek treachers in nato. however, Turkish red Crescent did help Bosniaks.

 

[Rainman05]

But Turkey is a full member of the CoE.

Again. Putting a fish in a dog house doesn't turn it into a dog. It is still a fish.

Also, the council of Europe is not representative of the European continent. it is an assembly that is supposed to watch over democracy and human rights and all that good stuff. Being part of it just means you want to be part of the gang that promotes and safeguards those things. That is all.

 

[jschie]

Do they live in Asia? No, they live in Europe and have so for centuries.

Most Greeks lived in Asia until the 20th of the 20th century and have so for centuries - so they are Asians, as you say.
Many Turkish people lived in Europe until the 20th of the 20th century and have so for centuries - so they are Europeans, as you say.