Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Islamic Extremism

[ScummyD]

Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Terrorism

Many people continue to be in denial and refuse to accept that the "real engine" of Islamic terrorism is the religion of Islam. They naively believe that the West is on the receiving end of violence and destruction perpetrated by radical Islamists mainly because of our actions abroad in foreign lands, while they routinely refuse to accept the fact that the foot soldiers of Allah are driven in large part by their religious beliefs.

Here is just the latest evidence proving that it is in fact not American or British or Spanish or German or Canadian. . .etc. bombs that inspires the hatred and destructive acts of radical Islam.

Firebombs were thrown at two more churches in Malaysia early Sunday, the latest in a series of assaults on Christian houses of worship following a court decision that allows non-Muslims to use "Allah" to refer to God.
. . .
Four churches were hit by gasoline bombs on Friday and Saturday. All except the Metro Tabernacle, whose parishioners moved their services, suffered little damage, and no one was hurt. The other three held normal services Sunday.
. . .
The dispute is over a Dec. 31 High Court decision that overturned a government order banning non-Muslims from using the word "Allah" in their prayers and literature. The court was ruling on a petition by Malaysia's Roman Catholic Church, whose main publication, the Herald, uses the word "Allah" in its Malay-language edition. The government has appealed the verdict.

News-Talk 1110 WBT | News Story: 2 more churches attacked in Malaysia in Allah feud​

What say you Catawba???

 

[PeteEU]

Hmm looks like more that someone yet again uses a 1500 year old book as an excuse to start a conflict.

 

[Partisan]

Hmm looks like more that someone yet again uses a 1500 year old book as an excuse to start a conflict.

Yeah, I wish the Muslims wouldn't do that......

 

[PeteEU]

Yeah, I wish the Muslims wouldn't do that......

or any religion for that matter At least use a book that is understandable, and from a time where people did not think the world was flat

 

[Gardener]

Re: Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Terrorism

Many people continue to be in denial and refuse to accept that the "real engine" of Islamic terrorism is the religion of Islam. They naively believe that the West is on the receiving end of violence and destruction perpetrated by radical Islamists mainly because of our actions abroad in foreign lands, while they routinely refuse to accept the fact that the foot soldiers of Allah are driven in large part by their religious beliefs.

Here is just the latest evidence proving that it is in fact not American or British or Spanish or German or Canadian. . .etc. bombs that inspires the hatred and destructive acts of radical Islam.

Firebombs were thrown at two more churches in Malaysia early Sunday, the latest in a series of assaults on Christian houses of worship following a court decision that allows non-Muslims to use "Allah" to refer to God.
. . .
Four churches were hit by gasoline bombs on Friday and Saturday. All except the Metro Tabernacle, whose parishioners moved their services, suffered little damage, and no one was hurt. The other three held normal services Sunday.
. . .
The dispute is over a Dec. 31 High Court decision that overturned a government order banning non-Muslims from using the word "Allah" in their prayers and literature. The court was ruling on a petition by Malaysia's Roman Catholic Church, whose main publication, the Herald, uses the word "Allah" in its Malay-language edition. The government has appealed the verdict.

News-Talk 1110 WBT | News Story: 2 more churches attacked in Malaysia in Allah feud​

What say you Catawba???

I have never seen any claims that attempt to distance Islam from the violence perpetuated in its name that stand even the most rudimentary scrutiny. People claim it is poverty, yet there isn't massive Bolivian terrorism, is there?. They claim it is U.S. policy, yet we have seen no Argentinians flying planes into large buildings here. They claim all sorts of things that just don't stand up to basic reason.

If people would accept less of what they read, and regard all information with equal skepticism, perhaps they would start asking more of the sorts of questions that would debunk their own premise were they only to distance themselves from their own preconceptions -- preconceptions formed because they place too much trust in other people's opinions.

 

[Diogenes]

Re: Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Terrorism

I have never seen any claims that attempt to distance Islam from the violence perpetuated in its name that stand even the most rudimentary scrutiny.

When Benazir Bhutto survived the assassination attempt just before the one that killed her, she is reported to have raged "These are not Muslims! Muslims do not make war on women and innocents!"

When the six imams who were booted off the plane in Minneapolis threatened to file civil suits against the other passengers who had complained about them, a Muslim in Phoenix organized a fund to pay the defense legal expenses.

There really are moderate and peaceful Muslims among us. Unfortunately they do not attract nearly as much attention as the noisy bomb throwers. In The Shah Always Falls (American Heritage Magazine, March 2003), Ralph Peters provides some great insights like this:

Having gone out and seen much of the world—more than 50 countries—I find it clear that some cultures are better structured than others for success in the postmodern world. I’m most pessimistic about the Arab heartlands of Islam. I think the Indonesians have a fighting chance. Persia may surprise us all and turn out to be the first modern market economy and democracy in that part of the world. The average Iranian desperately wants to re-embrace the West and America in particular. So I’m hopeful about Iran—Persian civilization is amazingly robust—and I’m hopeful about Turkey.

In countries where there’s a struggle going on for the soul and future of Islam, the jury’s still out. I’m actually increasingly optimistic. But I do believe the last couple of centuries demonstrate that cultures that oppress women, that don’t have freedom of information, that don’t value secular education, that have one dominant religion that infects the state and has power over the state, and whose basic unit of social organization is a clan, tribe, or extended family are just not going to compete with the West and especially with the United States. So I’m extremely pessimistic about the old Islamic heartland.

I personally feel that we’ve made a grotesque mistake aligning ourselves with the most oppressive of the Arabs, with the Arab world’s Beverly Hillbillies. Other Arabs built Damascus, Córdoba, Baghdad, Cairo. The Saudis never built anything. The fact that they came into their oil wealth was a disaster, not for us but for the Arab world, because it gave these malevolent hicks raw economic power over the populations of poor Islamic states, such as Egypt. The line about Al Qaeda that’s absolutely true is that Saudis supplied the money and Egyptians supplied the brains. So Saudi money, spent to support their grotesquely repressive version of one of the world’s great religions, has been a disaster for the Arab world.

IMO, Islam needs a Reformation to offset the grotesquely repressive version pushed by the Saudis. The Old Testament of the Christians describes tribal practices which were acceptable at the time of writing, but will get you 25 to life if you attempt them in the US today; Islam needs to re-examine the Koran and Sharia, and discard those ancient tribal practices which are counter-productive in modern society.

Again, just my opinion.

 

[ScummyD]

Re: Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Terrorism

IMO, Islam needs a Reformation to offset the grotesquely repressive version pushed by the Saudis. The Old Testament of the Christians describes tribal practices which were acceptable at the time of writing, but will get you 25 to life if you attempt them in the US today; Islam needs to re-examine the Koran and Sharia, and discard those ancient tribal practices which are counter-productive in modern society.

Again, just my opinion.

Exactly. Discard those practices which are counter-productive in modern society like the doctrine of Loyalty and Enmity; loyalty to Islam and enmity toward all else.

I was arguing something very much like what you are saying here in another thread about Islam being based on ancient practices which are found at odds with the values of modern society, but with a little more force.

People like bin Laden and al-Zawahiri do not subscribe to an illegitimate distorted version of Islam, as they routinely cite specific doctrine, passages and teachings which you would be hard pressed to explain or prove how or that they are distorted. I don't think you could because of the extensive nature of their direct citations.

Remember, these ideas they cite which comprise the traditional tenets of Islam were founded and written long ago under an entirely different atmosphere wherein there was no concern (or very little at best) for human rights and the liberal notions of social order we adhere to and value today. It would be more correct to say that moderate Muslims today subscribe to a distorted version of Islam, although one that is more friendly and respectful of our modern values.

As Michael Scheuer writes of the threat posed by bin Laden:

"That threat is sharpened by the fact that bin Laden's ideas are grounded in and powered by the tenets of Islam, divine guidelines that are completely familiar to most of the world's billion plus Muslims and lived by them on a daily basis." -Imperial Hubris, p.xviii

"Most Muslims--and bin Laden is in the Islamic mainstream--believe separating church and state is apostasy." p.2

"Osama bin Laden, after all, is not an aberrant product of Saudi society--he is the poster boy." p.73

The reason bin Laden and al-Qaeda draw support is not solely because they bemoan American military aggression and exploitation, but because they routinely articulate a coherent message that is rooted and grounded in the religion of Islam. A message that countless Muslims worldwide recognize and wholeheartedly accept as not being an illegitimate version of Islam, but in fact Islam itself unadulterated and not watered down--THE real pure and true Islam.

Bin Laden and al-Zawahiri both argue at length that moderate Muslims subscribe to a distorted and thus illegitimate version of Islam and either must be made to submit or killed. Their arguments are backed by extensive citations from the Quran, ulema (legal scholars and jurists), ummah (community of Muslim peoples), ijima (consensus of the ummah), sunnah (the words, sayings and life ways of Muhammad and common Islamic practice), and hadith (narratives derived from Muhammad).

An important point in response to the idea that the militants distort Islam: If you argue that their version of Islam is distorted, then you are arguing against over a thousand years of Islamic precedent and established belief. That is one hell of a tall order!

It is imperative that we view these matters through their eyes (the radical militants eyes, that is) as they see them and not project our own wishes of how we believe they should interpret their religion for sake of our safety and comfort. The value and ideals underpinning the religion of Islam were created centuries ago. The distorted versions of Islam are the strains of today which ignore the tenets and doctrines of old found at odds with the modern era's notions of human rights, justice, equality and economic structure.​

 

[ScummyD]

Michael Savage speaks to this exact point. One of the only ones with the balls to say it like it is!

Michael Savage

 

[EmpiricalTruth]

Re: Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Terrorism

although religion is a way to mobilize extremism (has always been that way, even before christianity existed) the west does antagonize the arabs and we played a big role in making them more extreme

 

[dontworrybehappy]

Re: Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Terrorism

although religion is a way to mobilize extremism (has always been that way, even before christianity existed) the west does antagonize the arabs and we played a big role in making them more extreme

Can you please explain how we were antagonizing the Arabs on 9-10-01?

I'm sick and tired of liberals making excuses as to why Muslims hate us. They hate us for one single reason, JEALOUSY.

 

[Z3n]

Re: Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Terrorism

Can you please explain how we were antagonizing the Arabs on 9-10-01?

I'm sick and tired of liberals making excuses as to why Muslims hate us. They hate us for one single reason, JEALOUSY.

The U.S. did not subsidize tree nuts after the Taliban banned opiate production in parts of Punjab in the 2000, prior to this Washington and the Taliban met on several occasions. The Taliban destroyed Buddhist statues as an act of iconoclasm and the U.S. refusal to be an internationalist cooperator, and the Al-Qaeda faction took the next step and sent extremists to America on a one way trip.

American imperialism is a joke. We want oil, they have oil. We provide infrastructure and "westernize them" and in turn we just pave roads straight to natural resources for wealth extraction.

 

[texmaster]

Re: Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Terrorism

Many people continue to be in denial and refuse to accept that the "real engine" of Islamic terrorism is the religion of Islam. They naively believe that the West is on the receiving end of violence and destruction perpetrated by radical Islamists mainly because of our actions abroad in foreign lands, while they routinely refuse to accept the fact that the foot soldiers of Allah are driven in large part by their religious beliefs.

Here is just the latest evidence proving that it is in fact not American or British or Spanish or German or Canadian. . .etc. bombs that inspires the hatred and destructive acts of radical Islam.

Firebombs were thrown at two more churches in Malaysia early Sunday, the latest in a series of assaults on Christian houses of worship following a court decision that allows non-Muslims to use "Allah" to refer to God.
. . .
Four churches were hit by gasoline bombs on Friday and Saturday. All except the Metro Tabernacle, whose parishioners moved their services, suffered little damage, and no one was hurt. The other three held normal services Sunday.
. . .
The dispute is over a Dec. 31 High Court decision that overturned a government order banning non-Muslims from using the word "Allah" in their prayers and literature. The court was ruling on a petition by Malaysia's Roman Catholic Church, whose main publication, the Herald, uses the word "Allah" in its Malay-language edition. The government has appealed the verdict.

News-Talk 1110 WBT | News Story: 2 more churches attacked in Malaysia in Allah feud​

What say you Catawba???

I completely agree with this with only one correction. Its fundamentalist Islam not radical Islam. Radical Islam is the false PC label given by people who cannot accept what Islam actually teaches within the Qur'an at a literal level or the history of Mohammad, their pedophile prophet.

 

[NoJingoLingo]

How about we quit beating around the bush and acknowledge that it's RELIGION that causes these problems. The extremists want to kill us because we are heathens, not because they hate out freedom or our lifestyle, et al. it's about religion. I say we end all religions

 

[EmpiricalTruth]

Re: Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Terrorism

Can you please explain how we were antagonizing the Arabs on 9-10-01?

I'm sick and tired of liberals making excuses as to why Muslims hate us. They hate us for one single reason, JEALOUSY.

the founding of israel was one huge part of it. why are you asking for an answer then giving one? are you actually interested in truth or are you interested in feeling right?

weve set up dictatorships in the middle east plenty of times too. only to get up going to war with them(iraq)

The Middle East and the West: The U.S. Role Grows : NPR

more examples, plus better details of what ive explained.

 

[EmpiricalTruth]

How about we quit beating around the bush and acknowledge that it's RELIGION that causes these problems. The extremists want to kill us because we are heathens, not because they hate out freedom or our lifestyle, et al. it's about religion. I say we end all religions

religion is a huge part, but america played a big roll in radicalizing islam.

 

[ScummyD]

How about we quit beating around the bush and acknowledge that it's RELIGION that causes these problems. The extremists want to kill us because we are heathens, not because they hate out freedom or our lifestyle, et al. it's about religion. I say we end all religions

You have it half right. The radical Islamists believe we are infidels and they write at length about how much they despise our freedom and lifestyle and it's all based on their religion.

 

[ScummyD]

Re: Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Terrorism

I completely agree with this with only one correction. Its fundamentalist Islam not radical Islam. Radical Islam is the false PC label given by people who cannot accept what Islam actually teaches within the Qur'an at a literal level or the history of Mohammad, their pedophile prophet.

Radical Islam, fundamentalist Islam, Islamic fascist. . .etc. . . Whatever. I have used radical Islam, militant Islam, Islamofascism, and Islamic fascism.

You gave no reason why your chosen descriptor is any more valid than mine. And when you look at the definition of radical it is nearly the same thing.

rad⋅i⋅cal
–adjective
1. of or going to the root or origin; fundamental:​

I don't use the term radical Islam as a way of saying that the militants don't practice "what Islam actually teaches," but use it on the basis that they are willing to murder anybody for what they believe in.

 

[ScummyD]

Re: Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Terrorism

Can you please explain how we were antagonizing the Arabs on 9-10-01?

The U.S. did not subsidize tree nuts after the Taliban banned opiate production in parts of Punjab in the 2000,. . .

:lamo :lamo

Are you for real???

I never knew they were so fanatical about tree nuts.:lol:

 

[Z3n]

Re: Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Terrorism

:lamo :lamo

Are you for real???

I never knew they were so fanatical about tree nuts.:lol:

pick up a history book and you'll learn many things

 

[ScummyD]

Re: Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Terrorism

pick up a history book and you'll learn many things

I have a sound grasp of history, it's one of my favorite areas of study.

Your post was ridiculous.

 

[Z3n]

Re: Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Terrorism

I have a sound grasp of history, it's one of my favorite areas of study.

Your post was ridiculous.

well, its historical fact.

 

[ScummyD]

Re: Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Terrorism

well, its historical fact.

You want us to believe that 9-11 happened because we didn't subsidize tree nuts. It's laughably preposterous in the extreme.

 

[Z3n]

Re: Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Terrorism

You want us to believe that 9-11 happened because we didn't subsidize tree nuts. It's laughably preposterous in the extreme.

Well I've read it verbatum out of a history textbook. Granted it was escalatory, but the point being that the U.S. lack of international cooperation(the Taliban banned opiates, the only viable option for crop production in the mountainous Baluchistan region, as well as lessened some restrictive policies on women) and asked if the U.S. could help the development of parts of Afghanistan after complying. The U.S. declined, and prompted the Taliban to become more outspoken and support Al-Qaeda.

 

[ScummyD]

Re: Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Terrorism

Well I've read it verbatum out of a history textbook.

:lamo :lamo Well then it must be true. :lamo What class did the "teacher" make you read that rag in?

I have heard some pretty far out opinions on 9-11, but never have I heard such a foolish explanation as yours. Good grief.

 

[Z3n]

Re: Further Proof Islam is the Driving Factor of Terrorism

:lamo :lamo Well then it must be true. :lamo What class did the "teacher" make you read that rag in?

I have heard some pretty far out opinions on 9-11, but never have I heard such a foolish explanation as yours. Good grief.

Well, my teacher has a PhD in south asian politics and comparative studies, and is an active member of ASEAN(the association of South East Asian Nations).

Ignorance is bliss I guess