From the economic frying pan and into the fire? (3 Viewers)

[Brack]

The people who voted third party or stayed home impacted the result of the election. Why are you so eager to give them a pass?

They didn't really impacted the results of the election. The election wasn't that close, and voter turnout was high in 6 out of the 7 main swing states. If all of the people who voted for third-party candidates voted for Harris instead, Trump still would have won the election with 287 electoral votes.

 

[US&THEM]

You're getting irrational. First you claim Trump has never been held accountable, and now you're saying that his followers won't acknowledge the results of an election that held him accountable.

Make up your mind.

Yawn, Trump still argues he didn’t lose and Jan 6 is more proof MAGA is violent and gullible

 

[dairyair]

Did my OP only criticize Biden?

No.
But you are deeply wrong on spending. And the resultant inflation.

2020 the world shut down. 2021 midway through, the world started to slowly open up.
Notice who spent A LOT of money in 2020?
Biden never cam close to that much in 1 fiscal year.

...

Donald Trump​

At the end of fiscal year 2020, the debt was $26.9 trillion. Trump added $6.7 trillion to the debt between fiscal year 2017 and fiscal year 2020, a 33.1% increase, largely due to the effects of the coronavirus pandemic and 2020 recession.


In his FY 2021 budget, Trump's budget included a $966 billion deficit.11 However, the national debt actually grew by $1.5 trillion between October 1, 2020, and October 1, 2021.

• FY 2021: $1.5 trillion
• FY 2020: $4.2 trillion
• FY 2019: $1.2 trillion
• FY 2018: $1.3 trillion

U.S. National Debt by President

Check out how the national debt has increased by year and president. Depending on how you measure it, the answers may differ.

www.thebalancemoney.com

 

[US&THEM]

Did my OP only criticize Biden?

Nah, as you stated Biden created it.

 

[Michael Cole]

The group that can convince the larger or the electorate to vote for them wins.
The person running needs to use words in such a way that motivates people to vote for them.

The dems have been bad at countering talking points of MAGA.
The dems have also been bad at letting the primaries determine their leader. 2X a female was forced upon the country. 2X, the dems lost by not letting the primaries choose the candidate.

The average Dem Joe isn't any more educated in economics than MAGA. The Democrats should have educated the public on inflation. I think they ran scared, afraid to mention the issue. There was minimal talk of the soft landing, but without explaining what a soft landing is and what the alternative would mean, people not knowledgeable in economics walk away no better off.

If "They're eating the cats and dogs" wasn't enough, then I'm afraid Democrats' failures and economics education are the least of our worries.

 

[Moderate Right]

Biden gives us the worst inflationary cycle in nearly 50 years. Trump has given the stock market its worst April since the Great Depression (as reported in today's WSJ).

As voters, when oh when are we going to learn and start electing leaders who respect business and who respect markets?

Who do you want to elect that you know would fulfill your criteria? Can you name any names or do you just want to bitch about the two parties?

 

[lynnwinslow]

They didn't really impacted the results of the election. The election wasn't that close, and voter turnout was high in 6 out of the 7 main swing states. If all of the people who voted for third-party candidates voted for Harris instead, Trump still would have won the election with 287 electoral votes.

Again, I am talking about the people who voted third party AND the people who stayed home.

 

[dairyair]

Biden gives us the worst inflationary cycle in nearly 50 years. Trump has given the stock market its worst April since the Great Depression (as reported in today's WSJ).

As voters, when oh when are we going to learn and start electing leaders who respect business and who respect markets?

The largest contributor to inflation was all the free money in 2020 to stay home.
Money coming in, no products to buy. As 1/2 the world was home.
You are not close to correct on the reason for inflation.
Did trump cause the 2020 recession?

...

Donald Trump​

At the end of fiscal year 2020, the debt was $26.9 trillion. Trump added $6.7 trillion to the debt between fiscal year 2017 and fiscal year 2020, a 33.1% increase, largely due to the effects of the coronavirus pandemic and 2020 recession.


In his FY 2021 budget, Trump's budget included a $966 billion deficit.11 However, the national debt actually grew by $1.5 trillion between October 1, 2020, and October 1, 2021.

• FY 2021: $1.5 trillion
• FY 2020: $4.2 trillion
• FY 2019: $1.2 trillion
• FY 2018: $1.3 trillion

U.S. National Debt by President

Check out how the national debt has increased by year and president. Depending on how you measure it, the answers may differ.

www.thebalancemoney.com

 

[ataraxia]

Biden gives us the worst inflationary cycle in nearly 50 years. Trump has given the stock market its worst April since the Great Depression (as reported in today's WSJ).

As voters, when oh when are we going to learn and start electing leaders who respect business and who respect markets?

This is not at all a symmetric situation.

Biden handled the global inflation after Covid better than any other developed nation on the planet.

Trump has taken an economy which was roaring and is beating it into the ground out of sheer stupidity.

And you want everyone to think that means they are both stupid and we have no good choices? Maybe not seeing the difference here is where our problems lie.

 

[ataraxia]

Because he's the leader who drove excessive levels of federal spending.

The risk of intractable recession was too high. It was a reasonable move- even if you don't agree with it.

What Trump is doing right now is not reasonable. It's stuff you would expect only from an insane asylum escapee.

 

[lynnwinslow]

It's what was seen as the most populous threads in 2024 on forums such as this.

Does anyone stand for those things I listed?

What is it you believe? trump won. Why?

Do some people support extreme views? Sure, but their views are not party views.
Again, it was a messaging issue.
Two things can be true.

Being pro-immigration does mean one supports free housing for criminal illegals
Being respectful of trans people does not mean one supports men disguised as woman beating up women during sporting events
Supporting DEI does not mean one supports hiring unqualified minorities to steal jobs from white men.
Being pro choices does not mean one supports after birth abortions (whatever the heck that is).

 

[Tettsuo]

Trump ended his 2020 tenure as president with a net job loss. Biden ended his 2024 tenure with one of the lowest unemployment records in American history.

Someone needs to get off the drug of Rightwing news propaganda.

 

[dairyair]

Do some people support extreme views? Sure, but their views are not party views.
Again, it was a messaging issue.
Two things can be true.

Being pro-immigration does mean one supports free housing for criminal illegals
Being respectful of trans people does not mean one supports men disguised as woman beating up women during sporting events
Supporting DEI does not mean one supports hiring unqualified minorities to steal jobs from white men.
Being pro choices does not mean one supports after birth abortions (whatever the heck that is).

So I was correct.
The dems lost because of...

brown people from other countries
transgender people
attacks and persecutions against white people in the USA
attacks and persecutions against the Xtian religions.

That was most of my original list that you said wasn't the issue.
Reality is perception.

 

[lynnwinslow]

So I was correct.
The dems lost because of...

brown people from other countries
transgender people
attacks and persecutions against white people in the USA
attacks and persecutions against the Xtian religions.

That was most of my original list that you said wasn't the issue.
Reality is perception.

Please don't twist my words.
The Democrats lost, in part, because of their inability to counteract misleading far right wing messaging about those issues.
Which is entirely different than the Democrats losing because of their policies about those issues.

 

[dairyair]

Please don't twist my words.
The Democrats lost, in part, because of their inability to counteract misleading far right wing messaging about those issues.
Which is entirely different than the Democrats losing because of their policies about those issues.

I didn't twist your words.
I repeated my words in my 1st post. Of which you responded to and disagreed with me.

DEI apparently was a huge issue. DEI issues cost the dem party.

They can't connect with middle America. Why? What's wrong with their messaging?

 

[Brack]

Again, I am talking about the people who voted third party AND the people who stayed home.

And they aren't responsible for Trump getting elected as president. Only those who voted for Trump are responsible for him getting elected as president.

 

[lynnwinslow]

I didn't twist your words.
I repeated my words in my 1st post. Of which you responded to and disagreed with me.

DEI apparently was a huge issue. DEI issues cost the dem party.

They can't connect with middle America. Why? What's wrong with their messaging?

I wish I knew the answer. You can't force people to not watch Libs of TikTok or not watch FOX programs or not look through their Facebook feed.

 

[lynnwinslow]

And they aren't responsible for Trump getting elected as president. Only those who voted for Trump are responsible for him getting elected as president.

Of course they are.
If the people who stayed home voted for Harris and the people who voted third party voted for Harris, Trump would not have won. They made a choice, their choice contributed to Trump's victory.

 

[dairyair]

I wish I knew the answer. You can't force people to not watch Libs of TikTok or not watch FOX programs or not look through their Facebook feed.

Correct.
I don't trust any of those.

But, one has to use the venues that many use. And be able to relate to those using those venues.
It's 2025. Not 1995.

 

[NatMorton]

Nah, as you stated Biden created it.

You can stop lying. I've explained multiple times in this thread he made it worse.

 

[lynnwinslow]

Correct.
I don't trust any of those.

But, one has to use the venues that many use. And be able to relate to those using those venues.
It's 2025. Not 1995.

There is no way that FOX or Libs of TikToc or any of those crazy youtube channels that people post here are going to air the opposing or balanced views in a way that will cut through the right wing noise. If Facebook changed their algorithm to feed someone opposing views, do you think they would keep using Facebook?
It's much easier to make money by feeding people's angertainment addictions.

 

[Questerr]

Biden gives us the worst inflationary cycle in nearly 50 years. Trump has given the stock market its worst April since the Great Depression (as reported in today's WSJ).

As voters, when oh when are we going to learn and start electing leaders who respect business and who respect markets?

Who did you vote for in 2024?

 

[US&THEM]

You can stop lying. I've explained multiple times in this thread he made it worse.

Haha, I am quoting you.

 

[Tettsuo]

You can stop lying. I've explained multiple times in this thread he made it worse.

Did Biden end his tenure with job losses and sky-high inflation? Checking to see if you live in the same reality as me.

 

[NolanVoyd]

I know you want to think and say that.

You'd be wrong.

How is he wrong?