From ‘Demos’ to ‘Podemos’: Popular Uprisings in Greece and Spain

[TheDemSocialist]

n ancient Greece, the birthplace of democracy, power derived from “demos,” the people. Well, the people of contemporary Greece have been reeling under austerity for five years, and have voted to put an end to it. In January, the anti-austerity Syriza Party was swept to power in national elections. Greece is a member of the so-called eurozone, the nations that joined together with a common currency back in 1999. Following the economic crash of 2009, the Greek economy was in shambles. In 2012, I interviewed economist and Syriza member Yanis Varoufakis, who is now
Greece’s minister of finance, and is at the center of the current crisis in the eurozone.
“Greece is going through its Great Depression, something akin to what the United States went through in the 1930s,” he told me. “This is not just a change of government. It’s a social economy that has entered into a deep coma. It’s a country that is effectively verging to the status of a failed state.” In order to stabilize the Greek economy, a bailout package was proposed, delivered by three institutions reviled in Greece as “The Troika”: the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund. In exchange for the bailout of more than $100 billion euros, Greece would have to impose strict austerity measures, including mass layoffs of public-sector workers and the sale of public resources, like government-owned port facilities.

For years, the main political parties in Greece accepted the demands of the Troika, repressing the resulting protests with police violence. The new party in power, “Syriza,” is an acronym meaning “Coalition of the Radical Left,” and Varoufakis, along with his colleague Alexis Tsipras as prime minister, wasted no time challenging the austerity measures.

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The global economic crisis has effected some countries a lot worse than others. Greece and Spain are these countries that have been effected a lot worse than many other European and Western countries. It brought them mass austerity, which lead to the population suffering, and the economy in many ways not recovering. The people of these countries first tried the pro-austerity right wing parties, when that did not bring the recovery needed, they moved to something else. They have been moving, and are moving to anti-austerity, and anti-capitalist parties. The economic crisis brought giant economic and personal hurt to many people in Greece and Spain but at the same time it has lead to the rise of parties that are trying to prove that another way is possible.

 

[maresa]

Read more @: From

The global economic crisis has effected some countries a lot worse than others. Greece and Spain are these countries that have been effected a lot worse than many other European and Western countries. It brought them mass austerity, which lead to the population suffering, and the economy in many ways not recovering. The people of these countries first tried the pro-austerity right wing parties, when that did not bring the recovery needed, they moved to something else. They have been moving, and are moving to anti-austerity, and anti-capitalist parties. The economic crisis brought giant economic and personal hurt to many people in Greece and Spain but at the same time it has lead to the rise of parties that are trying to prove that another way is possible. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Spain is on the way to recover.

Portugal did recover.

Ireland did recover.

Why?

The austerity policy is doing its help!

The only thing is: you never can spend more than you earn!

Any other communist pland will fail. Simple as that.


If they want to stop that, they can. But by that they must and will have to leave the Euro Zone.

We do need:

- very very low inflation
- a very strong currency
- high intrest rates
- a strong economy by QUALITY
- to kill the whole finance industry (it is USELESS)
- to invest in production
- a flexible labour law
- strong middle sized companies
- less communist dreams of the 70ties.
- no cheating and no corruption
- participation of workers from the profit!
- more responsible bosses by behaving like fathers and not like robots.
- discipline insteat of chaos
- efficiant production
- creativity
- education
- good state welfare as the result of all! Bismarck was right!


DRAGHI, TSIPRAS, PANDOMIA...all to hell!

 

[PeteEU]

Spain is on the way to recover.

Portugal did recover.

Ireland did recover.

Why?

The austerity policy is doing its help!

Far far far from as simple as that. Both Ireland and Portugal have not "recovered". The Irish still hold the highest debt to GDP rate other than Greece... and if you add the private sector debt.. then holy Christ they are screwed. Plus the Irish did not do much austerity if any. Their problems was their private banking system and an over blown building market. Spain had a surplus before the crisis, but again because of the private sector building boom, the bubble burst and the surplus went to a deficit. All countries have been doing more structural reforms and some austerity.. but it has not worked as well as promised and has only driven people into the hands of non traditional parties.

Like it or not, the problem in Greece was not that the state spent too much, because relative to other countries it did not. Nore was it that it had a bloated public sector with lots of workers.. because statistically it did not and does not.. places like the UK and US has far far bigger employment in the public sector as a percent of total employment. No the problem with Greece was a bad tax collection system and a corrupt political and private sector that basically ran the country. Tax evasion and corruption which is damn hard to fight and certainly cutting the public purse wont fix that problem, nor will leaving the Euro zone or the EU.. it would in fact push the country into more corruption as society false apart.

The only thing is: you never can spend more than you earn!

As a country you can, which is why the kitchen table economics of the right wing (mostly American) is a load of bull****. The US for example has been spending more than it earns for over 40 years and most of those years was with right wingers running the place. It is a lie that a state has to have a balanced budget or surplus.. it is of course better, but even a small deficit is just fine. For example, my own country of Denmark has been running a deficit for the most part for a very long time, but it is small and manageable and it also meant that our debt was being paid down so that we basically had no external debt in 2010ish.. go figure eh?

If they want to stop that, they can. But by that they must and will have to leave the Euro Zone.

Another right wing fantasy idea. Leaving the Euro Zone wont solve the problems, it will only hide them yet again and create many new ones.

- very very low inflation
- a very strong currency
- high intrest rates
- a strong economy by QUALITY
- to kill the whole finance industry (it is USELESS)
- to invest in production
- a flexible labour law
- strong middle sized companies
- less communist dreams of the 70ties.
- no cheating and no corruption
- participation of workers from the profit!
- more responsible bosses by behaving like fathers and not like robots.
- discipline insteat of chaos
- efficiant production
- creativity
- education
- good state welfare as the result of all! Bismarck was right!

Many of those contradict each other and others are impossible.

 

[maresa]

Far far far from as simple as that. Both Ireland and Portugal have not "recovered". The Irish still hold the highest debt to GDP rate other than Greece... and if you add the private sector debt.. then holy Christ they are screwed. Plus the Irish did not do much austerity if any. Their problems was their private banking system and an over blown building market. Spain had a surplus before the crisis, but again because of the private sector building boom, the bubble burst and the surplus went to a deficit. All countries have been doing more structural reforms and some austerity.. but it has not worked as well as promised and has only driven people into the hands of non traditional parties.

Like it or not, the problem in Greece was not that the state spent too much, because relative to other countries it did not. Nore was it that it had a bloated public sector with lots of workers.. because statistically it did not and does not.. places like the UK and US has far far bigger employment in the public sector as a percent of total employment. No the problem with Greece was a bad tax collection system and a corrupt political and private sector that basically ran the country. Tax evasion and corruption which is damn hard to fight and certainly cutting the public purse wont fix that problem, nor will leaving the Euro zone or the EU.. it would in fact push the country into more corruption as society false apart.



As a country you can, which is why the kitchen table economics of the right wing (mostly American) is a load of bull****. The US for example has been spending more than it earns for over 40 years and most of those years was with right wingers running the place. It is a lie that a state has to have a balanced budget or surplus.. it is of course better, but even a small deficit is just fine. For example, my own country of Denmark has been running a deficit for the most part for a very long time, but it is small and manageable and it also meant that our debt was being paid down so that we basically had no external debt in 2010ish.. go figure eh?



Another right wing fantasy idea. Leaving the Euro Zone wont solve the problems, it will only hide them yet again and create many new ones.




Many of those contradict each other and others are impossible.

Well, than you disagree with most people in my and in your country and...sorry..to common sense. defecit is always a mistake.

You only should spend what you have...my mother told me so and it was always the best. I never took any credits from banks, I did work before I did party and I dislike to depend on others.

So if the greek for example think that they can beat mathematics, they are free to proof us. I wont hold them...but I also wont fellow and if they are connected to me, I cut the connection that way.

Back to DRACHME!


anyway: Denmark is NOT part of the EURO Zone and you know why?

I do ^^

So if you so much like the idea that others do pay for the greeks, open your valid and pay - I wont stop you.

"right wing ideas..."

What a statement. Because I refuse to give drugs to the drug consumer, I am right wing?

Becauee I do deside that I do refuse to waste my money, I am right wing?


Sorry Sir, but that is insane

 

[PeteEU]

Well, than you disagree with most people in my and in your country and...sorry..to common sense. defecit is always a mistake.

That is just because people dont understand basic macro economics.

You only should spend what you have...my mother told me so and it was always the best. I never took any credits from banks, I did work before I did party and I dislike to depend on others.

And that is not how real life works for countries or companies. They need credit to run. That is why the kitchen table economics crowd are so way off. EVERY company has a credit line.. they cant function without it. Why do you think there was so many companies that went under during the crisis? Many of them went under because the banks refused to extend credit to pay wages and basic running costs.. because unlike your kitchen table economics, the income comes after not before you use it. Hence a company needs money to make things or do things, but payment comes when that thing is sold or done.. not before. Same goes for countries. Taxes come in after the fact, hence they need a credit line, both internally and externally.

Another major difference between you and a country is, that the country will always have an income.. you wont. You can get fired, and be without money. A country can only achieve this if there is a civil war and society collapses... which rarely happens.

Also another thing.. the average household has a debt to income of several 100s of %... aint that bad? They have borrowed money to buy a home.. that is the only way most people are able to get a home. That is debt, and the debt is far far more than a person can earn in a year. So why is that not very bad if it is bad for a country to have a debt of 100% of income for one year... and the fact that the country will always have an income.. but you wont.. you can be fired. Hence the country can pay off its debt, but if you lose your job, then you cant and you go bankrupt.

So if the greek for example think that they can beat mathematics, they are free to proof us. I wont hold them...but I also wont fellow and if they are connected to me, I cut the connection that way.

It has nothing to do with basic school yard mathematics.. but macro economics.

Back to DRACHME!

And what would that solve? They would still owe 150 billion Euros to other countries and banks. They cant pay in Drachme. The only thing they can do with the Drachme is print money to pay of internal debt and costs, but that would create massive inflation.. which aint good. No one would want to invest in such a place.. regardless of how cheap labour and prices for outsiders will be. The change will cause a massive political and social economic crisis.. far worse than what we have seen already. For example.. power for the country. This comes from buying fuel from overseas.. with Euros and Dollars.. which they dont have and cant get because no one will loan them money. How will they then power their little industry they have, let alone the hotels and resorts that do bring in some dollars and Euros? Do you really think people with the living standard of the Greeks would accept even in the short term daily power cuts lasting most of the day?

anyway: Denmark is NOT part of the EURO Zone and you know why?

Yep, they were stupid to vote against it and that was because of lies by the anti-European parties. The main reason that the Danish people voted against it.. they thought they could not have the Danish Queen on the coins.. they could of course. And I was very politically active in that referendum, so are you sure you know why the said no?

What a statement. Because I refuse to give drugs to the drug consumer, I am right wing?

You are promoting the dismantlement of the Euro and Eurozone and hence the EU.. that is typical nationalistic right wing behaviour.

 

[maresa]

If I borrow to much, I am hold responsible.


I demand that to happen to Greece, not more. Why should we save the world? I tell you why: it is the Brussels bureaucrats who need to be saved, because they do not work in anything productive!

They should get an education and learn to work for money...

And what would that solve? They would still owe 150 billion Euros to other countries and banks. They cant pay in Drachme.

Hey...the money is lost anyway because of these bureaucrats in Brussels and idiots like these pro EU people. But if you once recognize something does not work...why to do the mistake again and again?

I tell you: because they melk you as long as it takes you die. But I am unwilling to do that. OUT of the EURO! Should get happy with their own currency. I am not at all against Greece. I simply thing I like my own country also, sorry.

The only thing they can do with the Drachme is print money to pay of internal debt and costs, but that would create massive inflation.. which aint good.

Did Germany, did Finland, did Slovakia, did estonia, did Poland...ect ect...did they cause that problem? NO they did not. But they all wanted to help and did get angor in exchange...

Enough is enough. I am not right wing at all because I refuse that circus, sorry. I am not a clown. I like my freedom and my freedom is to say to Greece about "bailing out":



"No, I do prefer not to"


But you seem to insist that I have to do that. As the normal and smart majority of your great country: Denmark.

You know how I call that: Dictatorship. The oposide of freedom. no thx! I love freedom and democracy.

No one would want to invest in such a place.. regardless of how cheap labour and prices for outsiders will be. The change will cause a massive political and social economic crisis..

It depends. If they invent intresting things, all is possible.

Did you see how the polish did work after 1990? The estonians? The slovakians? The hungarians?

If Greece likes to party and than to ask those countries to pay their bill and to insult them...ok.

I prefer not to.

Yep, they were stupid to vote against it and that was because of lies by the anti-European parties. The main reason that the Danish people voted against it.. they thought they could not have the Danish Queen on the coins.. they could of course. And I was very politically active in that referendum, so are you sure you know why the said no?

Denmark is at least more democratic than my country. They have been asked. If we would have been asked...we would have send that Euro trash to hell! And now the people get more and more all tehse lies...and the bureaucrats get afraid...send them all to hell.

You are promoting the dismantlement of the Euro and Eurozone and hence the EU.. that is typical nationalistic right wing behaviour.

I do believe in solidarity but also in freedom.

If Geece wants money and just insult those who are social, ok. Than I take my freedom to tell them:



I prefer not to.


Nothing nationalistic about that. Nothing. I am simply a free person and I do love my freedom. I feel sorry for greeks who want to work and who get rejected by a failed state.

They get here to Germany or Switzerland and I do wellcome them. Great people.


I am supporting a liberal open minded strong economy in my country.

We do not need the Euro. Have done before perfectly fine and all lies that we would have soooo much advantage is simply wrong.

Sucseed does convince. YOu can tell me whatever you do like. Greece is may be not that sucsessfull as central or as eastern Europe...so? May be not all you want to make me believe is sucsessfull...is ...true...



btw...in the company I am working in, we are about 40 people. Everybody has a university degree, is very well paid. We produce a very funny product what is extrimily specialized and single worldwide. It is a swiss company. And guess what:

that company does not take any credit. Never ;-) No joke.

We are not rich, pretty international, but free and happy and a wonderful team. Your theory about economy wont convince me. I am working since 6 years in that company and it exist far longer...we won a price about that product and it is just fun. I must sleep now...need to be fit by 9 h. I worked until 22h


I am happy. No need for euro trash.

 

[Ben K.]

Spain is on the way to recover.

Portugal did recover.

Ireland did recover.

Why?

The austerity policy is doing its help!

The only thing is: you never can spend more than you earn!

Any other communist pland will fail. Simple as that.


If they want to stop that, they can. But by that they must and will have to leave the Euro Zone.

We do need:

- very very low inflation
- a very strong currency
- high intrest rates
- a strong economy by QUALITY
- to kill the whole finance industry (it is USELESS)
- to invest in production
- a flexible labour law
- strong middle sized companies
- less communist dreams of the 70ties.
- no cheating and no corruption
- participation of workers from the profit!
- more responsible bosses by behaving like fathers and not like robots.
- discipline insteat of chaos
- efficiant production
- creativity
- education
- good state welfare as the result of all! Bismarck was right!


DRAGHI, TSIPRAS, PANDOMIA...all to hell!

To be honest, Ireland become the fastest growing European economy in large part because of the American and British recoveries, economies it was tightly linked in to. The former did not practice austerity and the latter had a strong currency.

 

[PeteEU]

To be honest, Ireland become the fastest growing European economy in large part because of the American and British recoveries, economies it was tightly linked in to. The former did not practice austerity and the latter had a strong currency.

Not really exactly. Ireland got many billions from the UK to stay afloat.. either directly or indirectly, simply because an Irish default could have brought down the UK as well.

The Irish growth is simply because they have reached bottom and are linked as you said to the UK economy. Now as the UK economy slows down again, so will the Irish, which is why Spain and other countries this year and next year will pass both the UK and Ireland in growth forecasts.

But the reality is that the Irish government is the 2nd most heavily in debt country in Europe, only beaten slightly by Greece. On top of that the private sector debt, which actually caused the Irish collapse, has not really been dealt with. The Irish are one of the most heavily indebted nations on the planet (if not the most), if you include public and private debt.

It use to be that Ireland was an attractive place to set up shop due to under the table tax deals and "cheap labour". That is gone now. The cheap labour has become expensive relative to eastern European countries and the tax deals are under investigation for anti-competitive behaviour .. and the deals are being rolled back to avoid the political fall out.

 

[maresa]

Not really exactly. Ireland got many billions from the UK to stay afloat.. either directly or indirectly, simply because an Irish default could have brought down the UK as well.

The Irish growth is simply because they have reached bottom and are linked as you said to the UK economy. Now as the UK economy slows down again, so will the Irish, which is why Spain and other countries this year and next year will pass both the UK and Ireland in growth forecasts.

But the reality is that the Irish government is the 2nd most heavily in debt country in Europe, only beaten slightly by Greece. On top of that the private sector debt, which actually caused the Irish collapse, has not really been dealt with. The Irish are one of the most heavily indebted nations on the planet (if not the most), if you include public and private debt.

It use to be that Ireland was an attractive place to set up shop due to under the table tax deals and "cheap labour". That is gone now. The cheap labour has become expensive relative to eastern European countries and the tax deals are under investigation for anti-competitive behaviour .. and the deals are being rolled back to avoid the political fall out.

Ireland had very weird taxation.

They sort of do almost not tax companies at all. Like that, there will always be some problem. But it is up to them - simply one more proof, that the EURO wont work between several souverain countries.

It should not be the case that low taxation does cause internal discal problems what is later than balanced by the EU - like that, others do finance low taxation of a member: senseless. But if Ireland did stop that, I think that is part of the deal in having helped Ireland to solve the issue.

Britain? They did not did more than to laugh in the backward and I can sort of understand that.

It was the EU what solved the problem. But Ireland did managa and that is reasonable solidarity. Ireland is not cheating. Big difference to Greece. Ireland can be trusted.

The Euro was created to hold Germany down. Nothing as that. And to give jobs to lazy eurocrats.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

Presumably austerity is the default option when you run out of others to loan you money. Regardless of how the people of Greece voted.

 

[maresa]

Presumably austerity is the default option when you run out of others to loan you money. Regardless of how the people of Greece voted.

I disagree. It gives back discipline to the responsible people.

No state can survive by spending more mony than it gains. I think the whole EU should go into a harsh and sharp austericy programm:

- down the saleries
- investment in effecient production
- declaring financial induistry as illegal! Banks are ONLY there to organize the money circle, fullstop!
- less holidays in some countries, longer times to work (until 70 years all over the EU)
- spending less for bailing out programs
- lifting up the intrest rates
- investing more in education


THAT would be a resonable program.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

I disagree. It gives back discipline to the responsible people.

No state can survive by spending more mony than it gains. I think the whole EU should go into a harsh and sharp austericy programm:

- down the saleries
- investment in effecient production
- declaring financial induistry as illegal! Banks are ONLY there to organize the money circle, fullstop!
- less holidays in some countries, longer times to work (until 70 years all over the EU)
- spending less for bailing out programs
- lifting up the intrest rates
- investing more in education


THAT would be a resonable program.

You are disagreeing with a point I made that may lead to some of your remedies. If you can't find any more creditors to loan you money, then you have to cut back.

I suspect that if the whole EU adopted all those things you suggest, then the only people employed will be those in the tourism industry servicing non-EU visitors and in police forces protecting the tourists.

 

[PeteEU]

Ireland had very weird taxation.

Weird is an understatement.

They sort of do almost not tax companies at all. Like that, there will always be some problem. But it is up to them - simply one more proof, that the EURO wont work between several souverain countries.

Has NOTHING to do with the EURO. For god sake you anti Euro people have zero clue on how things work. Taxation can not be used in an anti-competitive behaviour .. this has been part of the EU and EEC since day one.

Now taxation is up to the individual country, but you can NOT discriminate and that is exactly what Ireland has done. For example Apple. Apple got a special tax rate others could not get. That is illegal and countries and companies have been complaining about it for decades.

It should not be the case that low taxation does cause internal discal problems what is later than balanced by the EU - like that, others do finance low taxation of a member: senseless. But if Ireland did stop that, I think that is part of the deal in having helped Ireland to solve the issue.

Low taxation is not the problem per say. Yes Ireland only has 12% or whatever in corporate tax.. that is their right. What is not right, is that some pay 12% while others pay 2% or nothing at all.

Britain? They did not did more than to laugh in the backward and I can sort of understand that.

Eh?

It was the EU what solved the problem. But Ireland did managa and that is reasonable solidarity. Ireland is not cheating. Big difference to Greece. Ireland can be trusted.

LOL you have zero clue on what you are talking about. The biggest contributor to the Irish bailout.. the UK. Why? Because many of the effected banks were.. UK owned or had large holdings in the UK and owed money to the UK. No Ireland did not cheat, and relative to Greece they can be more trusted... but that aint the point. The EU and many others had for years complained about the Celtic Tiger being driven by debt and a bubble in the property market.. which was true, but both Ireland, the UK and US (the Irish main backers) all ignored this. So when the US lead crisis happened, the Celtic Tiger was one of the first to go down.

The Euro was created to hold Germany down. Nothing as that. And to give jobs to lazy eurocrats.

Eh? Now you make no sense. The Euro was and is a good idea.. the way it was done is in question. If you think the Euro was a bad idea, then so is the Dollar and UK pound as they are based on similar ideas.

 

[Ben K.]

Not really exactly. Ireland got many billions from the UK to stay afloat.. either directly or indirectly, simply because an Irish default could have brought down the UK as well.

The Irish growth is simply because they have reached bottom and are linked as you said to the UK economy. Now as the UK economy slows down again, so will the Irish, which is why Spain and other countries this year and next year will pass both the UK and Ireland in growth forecasts.

But the reality is that the Irish government is the 2nd most heavily in debt country in Europe, only beaten slightly by Greece. On top of that the private sector debt, which actually caused the Irish collapse, has not really been dealt with. The Irish are one of the most heavily indebted nations on the planet (if not the most), if you include public and private debt.

It use to be that Ireland was an attractive place to set up shop due to under the table tax deals and "cheap labour". That is gone now. The cheap labour has become expensive relative to eastern European countries and the tax deals are under investigation for anti-competitive behaviour .. and the deals are being rolled back to avoid the political fall out.

The EU Commission predicts Ireland will remain the fastest growing European economy this year.

Irish household debt ratio reduction is second in the world and government debt has dropped too.

It takes Sinn Fein level spin to argue this doesn't amount to recovery from the crash.

 

[maresa]

Weird is an understatement.



Has NOTHING to do with the EURO. For god sake you anti Euro people have zero clue on how things work. Taxation can not be used in an anti-competitive behaviour .. this has been part of the EU and EEC since day one.

Now taxation is up to the individual country, but you can NOT discriminate and that is exactly what Ireland has done. For example Apple. Apple got a special tax rate others could not get. That is illegal and countries and companies have been complaining about it for decades.



Low taxation is not the problem per say. Yes Ireland only has 12% or whatever in corporate tax.. that is their right. What is not right, is that some pay 12% while others pay 2% or nothing at all.



Eh?



LOL you have zero clue on what you are talking about. The biggest contributor to the Irish bailout.. the UK. Why? Because many of the effected banks were.. UK owned or had large holdings in the UK and owed money to the UK. No Ireland did not cheat, and relative to Greece they can be more trusted... but that aint the point. The EU and many others had for years complained about the Celtic Tiger being driven by debt and a bubble in the property market.. which was true, but both Ireland, the UK and US (the Irish main backers) all ignored this. So when the US lead crisis happened, the Celtic Tiger was one of the first to go down.



Eh? Now you make no sense. The Euro was and is a good idea.. the way it was done is in question. If you think the Euro was a bad idea, then so is the Dollar and UK pound as they are based on similar ideas.

You seem not to think flexible.

Low taxation is in ONE currency NOT fair to the others IF such low taxation does end in bankruptcy.

The taxation of Ireland did cause less income to the state of Ireland.

That did cause financial trouble. Also it caused negative effects on all otrher EU members.

Yes, it is the right of Ireland to tax whatever they like, but than I do not want to bail out!

So: the EURO must disappear!

You cannot have both: low tax and high income. If you have almost no income to ask the others to bail out you because you are in the same currency is simply nonsense.

Result: The EURO is nuts.



I am not anti european. I am against THIS Europe. I would agree on:


- all same tax all over the Euro zone

- no veto rights anymore for any member.

- power in according to the population, THAT is real democracy! Why should Malta veto 99% of the rest???

- Same labour law all over

- complete independent federal reserve bank what does insist on ONLY maximum 1 - 0,5% inflation and 3-6% intrest rates and stops to print money.


BUT BUT BUT


The whole south of Europe would revolt to that. So: let them do what they always did, but alone!

If not: let uis do what we always did:

high intrest rates, strong currency!!!!!!!!!! DEUTSCHE MARK!!!, very efficient production, policy for middle sized ndustry, labour/boss institutions for consensus finding, hard work for QUALITY not QUANTITY...

either the german model all over Europe or no EURO - you cannot force all Europe to adopt our model. I DO RESPECT THAT!

I DO UNDERSTAND THAT


So: let's stop the Euro and stop that Political Union!


I do not want it, I do not need it, I do not see that this works!

Germans do feel like in a sort of prison: to us, the EURO is far far far to weak. To the south, it is far far far to strong.


You get something?


And yes...the EURO was the instrument Germany was blackmaled in 1990: "no Euro, no reunification".


I tell you something: Germany does not need the EU anymore anyway. Exports does go go and more outside the EU.

The whole crisis makes my country stronger and stronger - Germany starts to search outside the EU for a market.


But the german average people , they do suffer!

I stopped to save my money in EURO! I change all my saving money every montrh since years in Swiss money (the 15.01.2015 I was prooven to be right!) ...



But I wish we had our wonderful Deutsche Mark back.




"Do never change a winning team"


Why on earth did we change to the EURO?


That was braindamaged. High time to correct something in Europe.


P.S

Dollar: one american people

Pound: british!

Both: same language


Europeans will never ever agree on one language (no, it will NOT be english! No way! Rather french. I speak french, arab and german as native languages. I like english, but I will never ever respect that foreign language as official language in my country. NO NO NO! I do feel sorry for you scandina´vians that you surrender your language to english. That makes you losing your identity. I love english, I so much love the US, but I am NOT american and NOT british).

Europeans are not of one culture

All that does casue that Euro is not DOLLAR.

 

[PeteEU]

You seem not to think flexible.

Low taxation is in ONE currency NOT fair to the others IF such low taxation does end in bankruptcy.

The taxation of Ireland did cause less income to the state of Ireland.

That did cause financial trouble. Also it caused negative effects on all otrher EU members.

I will stop you there, as you clearly have no clue on what you are talking about.

The Irish bailout was a bailout of its PRIVATE banking system by the State of Ireland. The government of the time went in and guaranteed all deposits in banks, something they had no money to do with. Hence they needed to borrow it. It was not a Greek style problem where there was not enough tax income (due to tax avoidance), but the fact that the PRIVATE banking system had wayyyy over extended it self and could not handle a housing crash.

 

[maresa]

I will stop you there, as you clearly have no clue on what you are talking about.

The Irish bailout was a bailout of its PRIVATE banking system by the State of Ireland. The government of the time went in and guaranteed all deposits in banks, something they had no money to do with. Hence they needed to borrow it. It was not a Greek style problem where there was not enough tax income (due to tax avoidance), but the fact that the PRIVATE banking system had wayyyy over extended it self and could not handle a housing crash.

You seem not able to respect a different opinion.

The irish bailout was caused by gambling and low tax!

But as most of these euro fanatics: you are unable to respect the difference, you like such sort of one way thinking.

Respect that most europeans are fed up of euro trash.

If you wont., your way will end in a war.